Sandip's discus journey - Starting August 2023

[Sandip]

Hello friends,

Back to the hobby of keeping discus after a long 12 years break.
I have been cycling my tank for a month now. Bare bottom, rimless tank with a OASE 350 canister filter. This is a large canister that holds lot of bio-media.
I was doing fishless cycling using pure ammonia. I used bottled BB from Fritz and Brightwell. Not sure if they work though. They promise quick cycling. But, I experienced the cycling to be anything but quick.
My ammonia started going down after 2 weeks and was going to zero in less than 24 hours after 20 days. The nitrites took a long time to go down. Cycle lasted 4 weeks!
Current water parameters measured with API test kits:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5ppm
pH: 7.8
Temp 84

Ordered 6 discus of 4" size from Lynda Warner of Golden State Discus. The fish is supposed to come in tomorrow.
Initially I ordered 5, because my tank size is approximately 50G. But, Lynda suddenly posted this single ring leopard suddenly and it was of the same size as the others. Picked it up. Hopefully, I will have a 75 gallon in future and will move the fishes to it.
Wish me luck. Will post pictures when the fish comes in.

[brewmaster15]

Exciting! Looking forward to the pics and your journey!

Al

[Iminit]

Welcome back! I was away from discus from 04 to 19. Good luck on your new journey. My recommendation is even though there big start with daily water changes and at least 3 feedings a day. They’re still young and growing. For me after 4 weeks and all fish doing well I would treat with polyguard for 3 treatments. It’s a mild med but will clean them out of whatever is in them.

[Sandip]

The fishes are in. They have been in my tank since morning.
5 of them are doing well. 1 pigeon, I am little concerned about. Its fins are still a bit clamped and dark.
I have kept the lights off and shaded the tank to keep them in dark for the 1st 12 hours.
Turned on the lights now and just now fed them blackworms that I got from Al. Thank you Al!
Here are the photos and a short video of them starting to eat.

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The below is the one I am concerned about:

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Here is short video of their first feeding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75wWTPit8qc

[brewmaster15]

Nice Healthy looking group of Discus Sandip! Just a tad tail burn from shipping which will heal in no time with clean water.

Congratulations!
Al

PS.. My pleasure on the blackworms Sandip... glad they got there in time.

[AquaticNerd]

Agree with Al here - a very nice healthy looking group (albeit with the little bit of tail burn).

I don't think you need to be concerned about the pigeon at this time. That fish was front and bottom center in the video and appears to be doing just fine. :)

[Iminit]

Great looking discus!! Pb looks fine!

[Sandip]

Thank you Tom, Al, Jake.
Lets see how this goes.
On a surprising note, my wife said yesterday that I need a bigger tank! :) I never heard her say that!!!

[Vanman]

Get it fast before she changes her mind.

[Sandip]

Day 2 update:
They are doing ok. Seemed to be in better shape than they were yesterday.
The pigeon is no longer keeping its fins clamped. It's still a bit dark in its peripheral fins, but I think its better than what it was yesterday.
In the evening when I fed them the black-worms, they went crazy aggressive. I was mentally not prepared to see this much aggression on fishes that look so docile! They fought like true cichlids.
I need help with estimating the food amount though. Initially I gave them half a cube of black-worms, which they finished in less than 30 seconds. Then I gave them the remaining half. They again finished that in 2-3 minutes max. I stopped at this point. Am I estimating this correct? 1 cube for six 4 inch fish?

Two things in the water.
1. A mini cycle has started to my disappointment. I tested 0.25ppm nitrite. I used some salt after seeing this.
2. I am seeing significant drop in pH. The pH of the water dropped automatically from 7.8 to 7.4 ish. Not sure what is going on. Is this result of nitrification? Any suggestion?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Sandip, a mini-cycle is not surprising when you add a new bio-load to the tank. The bacteria need to adjust to accommodate the new bio-load. Generally 50% daily WCs will help to handle that.

Do you age your new water before using in the tank?

Pat

[Iminit]

Yes new fish so the bacteria is building up for the new waste load. May take a week for it to catch up. They are big fish. 50% daily water changes for at least the month to make sure they’re healthy strong and adapt to your water. Oh and there should be daily pictures :).

[Sandip]

Hi Sandip, a mini-cycle is not surprising when you add a new bio-load to the tank. The bacteria need to adjust to accommodate the new bio-load. Generally 50% daily WCs will help to handle that.

Do you age your new water before using in the tank?

Pat

Yes Pat, I age my tap water for approximately a day in a barrel with an airstone and heater. Before changing water, I add prime and now add salt.

[Sandip]

Yes new fish so the bacteria is building up for the new waste load. May take a week for it to catch up. They are big fish. 50% daily water changes for at least the month to make sure they’re healthy strong and adapt to your water. Oh and there should be daily pictures :).

Difficult for me to do 50% water changes at one go. I am doing 25% twice day after aging water for 12 hours instead of 25.

[Iminit]

That’s great! Why adding salt? How much are you adding?

[Sandip]

That’s great! Why adding salt? How much are you adding?

I am adding salt because I am reading .25ppm nitrite.
1 tbsp per 10 gallon.

[Sandip]

While changing water and cleaning the glass, the fish got super scared and one of them jumped and hit the tank cover clips resting on the side glass.
This kind of stressed me a bit. :D

Yesterday, I made my first batch of BHM. It will take me a few more times to get the recipe dialed in. I feed them with it today morning. They fished it in less than 2 minutes.
Feeding is 3 times a day from now on. 1 BHM, 1 blackworms, 1 discus gold pellets.
They have been eating the pellets from day 1. I am little surprised by that. Not sure what magic potion Al mixed in it. ;)

[brewmaster15]

.....Yesterday, I made my first batch of BHM. It will take me a few more times to get the recipe dialed in. I feed them with it today morning. They fished it in less than 2 minutes.
Feeding is 3 times a day from now on. 1 BHM, 1 blackworms, 1 discus gold pellets.
They have been eating the pellets from day 1. I am little surprised by that. Not sure what magic potion Al mixed in it. ;)

Awesome Sandip! Glad they took to all your foods.. My advice is feed the beefheart mix before your water changes as this is your most messy food...at least until after your biofilter catches up.. you may see an ammonia spike and a bigger nitrite spike for a bit.

Al

[Sandip]

Awesome Sandip! Glad they took to all your foods.. My advice is feed the beefheart mix before your water changes as this is your most messy food...at least until after your biofilter catches up.. you may see an ammonia spike and a bigger nitrite spike for a bit.

Al

Thank you Al. Will do that.

[Sandip]

Here is a quick update from day 3 with some photos.
Despite aging water considerably, the pH of the tank continues to drop inexplicably. Current pH is 7.3. Measured with multiple calibrated ph meters.
I spoke with the LFS and he said this is the problem with our local water.
I measured kH and gH of tap water. kH was 35ppm, which I believe is low. GH was 89 ppm. Should i think about adding kH/ph buffers to avoid ph crash in the future.

The pigeon seems to be doing ok. Its fins are still a bit dark but not closed like on day 1. Here is a photo of the fish:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53131175943_538916f73c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oX2axD)

All of them are hungry all the time. They have started to associate me approaching the tank with food.
Here are a few more photos of the remaining ones:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53131175933_f88d2174c2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oX2axt)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53130096252_dfb4024511_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oWVCAh)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53130692601_ae0920ea84_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oWYFSa)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53130717481_8178e84093_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/sandipan_ece/x4Q3d72383)

[Sandip]

New discus laying eggs!
I have been observing extreme aggression in the tank since 2 days. I knew something is wrong.
Then yesterday, they started doing the mating dance...shaking and cleaning the surface of a temperature probe I have in the tank.
And now eggs!
I don't plan to breed them. I am also a bit disappointed that what I believe was young discus (5-7 month old) are actually adult. The are between 4 and 5 inches in size. Did I get stunted fish? :eek: As you can understand, I am not super excited with this new development.

Here are the photos:
I think the eggs are laid by the red scarlet snakeskin in front and the pigeon is just trying to fertilize it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53136102845_da3f076245_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oXsq9e)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53135100527_d08b367ddd_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/sandipan_ece/526fx9STqQ)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53136170313_fa7800225a_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/sandipan_ece/aXP1fW8JyK)

[brewmaster15]

Sandip,
On the kH dropping. a simple easy fix is to add some crushed coral (aquarium store) or crushed oyster shells(chicken supply at feed and grain store) in a nylon sack....place this in a power filter.. usually a cup is enough for most tanks but. Its trial and error. I would not worry excessively if pH drops a little over time.. water changes usually keep even low kH water pretty stable.

The breeding. I wouldnt assume your fish are older than you thought. Discus can start breeding at 5-6 months..particularly the females can lay eggs.. often males are not fertile until older but will go through the motions. Sometimes you do get early achievers though. Its a sign your fish are healthy and they like your water.:)

Al

[Sandip]

Sandip,
On the kH dropping. a simple easy fix is to add some crushed coral (aquarium store) or crushed oyster shells(chicken supply at feed and grain store) in a nylon sack....place this in a power filter.. usually a cup is enough for most tanks but. Its trial and error. I would not worry excessively if pH drops a little over time.. water changes usually keep even low kH water pretty stable.

The breeding. I wouldnt assume your fish are older than you thought. Discus can start breeding at 5-6 months..particularly the females can lay eggs.. often males are not fertile until older but will go through the motions. Sometimes you do get early achievers though. Its a sign your fish are healthy and they like your water.:)

Al

I would look for some crushed corals.
Regarding age being 5-6 months. My questions is, will they still grow significantly after starting to lay eggs? Like everyone else, I want to see and grow them to at least 6" if not more.

[CliffsDiscus]

Regarding the age of the female snakeskin she looks older than 10 months. As far as growth still a little left especially getting thicker body.

[Sandip]

A quick update.
The fishes are doing fine.
The fish that I thought was red scarlet snakeskin (in post #21) is actually a Tiger Snakeskin. Lynda from goldenstatediscus corrected me after looking at the pictures.
The same fish laid eggs again today. It is actually laying eggs now as I type this post. I kinda feel sorry for this one because, it doesn't look like she has a mate now. The pigeon seems disinterested this time. Another Tiger Snakeskin that I have in the mix is showing some interest, but it might very well be a female too.

On water quality. I have been changing 25% water everyday.
There is still some nitrite in the water. Like Al predicted, the nitrite did go up. I have been keeping up on the water change and hoping the filters will catch up.
I am also planning for a slightly larger tank. Hopefully by mid September, the plans will be in place.

[Sandip]

Leaving a quick note here for future ref. The nitrite levels in my tank is showing signs of climbing down.
Today evening, I read the nitrite at .25ppm with the API titration kit.
The BB seems to be finally catching up to the tank load.

[Iminit]

Glad to hear the nitrite is coming down. With the breeding I’ve heard different things. Some say young fish can breed some say they need to be a year old. I’ve had many new fish breed. Added to qt tank and within a week they’re breeding. Seems like it’s brought on from the stress of shipping. Next we’ve got no clue how old the fish are we receive unless bought from an honest private breeder. Anything the online sellers are selling can be any age. Right now I have at least 5-7 4-4.5” discus I’ve bought online that have never grown. Most have been involved in breeding.

What is the Neptune stuff in the tank? What does it do? Is it for water changes?

[Sandip]

Glad to hear the nitrite is coming down. With the breeding I’ve heard different things. Some say young fish can breed some say they need to be a year old. I’ve had many new fish breed. Added to qt tank and within a week they’re breeding. Seems like it’s brought on from the stress of shipping. Next we’ve got no clue how old the fish are we receive unless bought from an honest private breeder. Anything the online sellers are selling can be any age. Right now I have at least 5-7 4-4.5” discus I’ve bought online that have never grown. Most have been involved in breeding.

What is the Neptune stuff in the tank? What does it do? Is it for water changes?

Thank you Tom for taking the time to share your experience. My fear is the same. I think some of the fish I received, even though are healthy, may actually never grow much beyond their current size. Because the breeders might be dividing the fishes from the same batch based on size and pricing strategy. So the 4-5" inch fishes might just be the runts of their batch. I don't think the seller (who is not the breeder) can do much about this. Hopefully, I am wrong. :) Time will tell. I will wait an year to see how it goes.
In future, I will be looking to buy from a trusted breeder directly. Hopefully, this forum will help me get in touch with someone like that.

The neptune stuff you see are ph probes connected to neptune apex aquarium controller. One ph probe is old and another fairly new. These equipments are not really necessary in keeping or maintaining a freshwater tank. They are there from my reef tank days, so I keep them in use.

[Iminit]

Ok was thinking they were from reef stuff. All I’ve heard is they are not accurate in fresh water. If they were I’d think many would be using them.

[Sandip]

Ok was thinking they were from reef stuff. All I’ve heard is they are not accurate in fresh water. If they were I’d think many would be using them.

The pH probe and the temperature probes are pretty accurate. Rest of the stuff like conductivity and ORP probes are not accurate in freshwater, hence I don't use them. The pH probes needs calibration every 4-6 months. I verify the readings with a handheld good quality pH meter. It's an obsession of mine to see how the pH changes throughout the day.

[Sandip]

Time for some photos after 12 days in my tank.
Here are the Day 1 vs Day 12 of some of fish:

RED SCARLET SNAKESKIN 1

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53151882159_7205387fe0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oYRhMn)

RED SCARLET SNAKESKIN 2

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53152175443_999fb23f44_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oYSMXZ)

RING LEOPARD

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53151104462_4b2cdf12fb_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oYMiAN)

These are iphone photos. Not digitally manipulated by any editing software.

[Sandip]

Folks...I need your advice.
One of my discus (the smallest and the most bullied one in the group), suddenly has a big cut on its head. Its like someone has scratched it's head with big nails! It is otherwise healthy looking...maybe a tad bit darker than I would like it to be. I am hoping this is not a hole in the head disease.
I am still doing daily 25% water changes and my ammonia & nitrite is 0. Some green dust algae on the wall due to long exposure to direct sunlight.
pH is 7.2 to 7.4. Temp at 84-85
I planning to use seachem stress coat while changing water today.
What else should I do?

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[Iminit]

Looks like it ran into something. Keep changing the water and it should go away.

[Sandip]

Some quick updates.
My new 4 feet X 2 feet tank is here along with a beautiful stand from UNS. :bounce2:
The tank will be in my living room. My wife said, only way she will allow it in the living room is, if the color and theme matches her other white furniture! It was not an easy thing to achieve. :eek:
Spent an hour today trying to get the background done. Used a white privacy film to cover the background.

Take a look.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53252409720_550121bef4_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53252409715_a451665f0a_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53251913081_469fdeb917_c.jpg

[Iminit]

Looks great. One thing though. Cover the bottom. If you don’t you will get a reflection. The fish will see a reflection. 136821. Notice in this pic. My stand has a green top and I thought that would work but it doesn’t. Need something covering the outside bottom. Some people paint them. But I think the privacy film will work.

[Charlyc11]

I had to paint the bottom to get rid of the reflections. I tried all kinds of film but none were looking good then I opted you use white enamel with a roller and that did it.

136824

[Tshethar]

I think the marble on the bottom and the tank overall look great! Congrats on getting the go ahead to move operations into the living room... a huge achievement that should be celebrated!;)

[Charlyc11]

I was just commenting on the reflections. No doubt the tank looks great I like that clean look.

[Iminit]

Yes tank looks great. But in my pic when empty you saw the green under the tank. When full you get that reflection. Thing is the fish see the reflection and may chase it or fight it. That’s the problem.

[Sandip]

Looks great. One thing though. Cover the bottom. If you don’t you will get a reflection. The fish will see a reflection. 136821. Notice in this pic. My stand has a green top and I thought that would work but it doesn’t. Need something covering the outside bottom. Some people paint them. But I think the privacy film will work.

Yes. I am aware of the reflections that I am going to see. I know the fish get spooked by the reflections. I thought a lot about this. A lot.... I just couldn't come to terms about painting a brand new tank. Also, I am worried about any chemicals leaching from the paint in to the water in the long run.

[Sandip]

I had to paint the bottom to get rid of the reflections. I tried all kinds of film but none were looking good then I opted you use white enamel with a roller and that did it.

136824

Beautiful tank! The bottom of this tank is what I wanted. But, did not have the heart to paint a brand new tank.

[Sandip]

I think the marble on the bottom and the tank overall look great! Congrats on getting the go ahead to move operations into the living room... a huge achievement that should be celebrated!;)

The marble on the bottom look is actually a kitchen cabinet paper that I placed on top of a 1/2 inch aquarium mat. It's not going to be visible to the fish when I put in the water. The fish will see reflections like a mirror. Only visible if I look into the tank from the top. It does look cool though.

[Charlyc11]

You are painting Glass you can scrape off anytime and if you wanted to add substrate it won't matter. It's easier and less mess with a roller. I had the same reservations with an bran new acrylic tank but nothing took the reflection away.

[fljones3]

I would (and did) paint underneath the tank. There would be no paint exposure to the water.

[Charlyc11]

I would (and did) paint underneath the tank. There would be no paint exposure to the water.

Correct paint outside bottom glass and I used matt finish.

[Sandip]

It has been a few weeks. Sharing a video of my fish. New tank not yet setup in the way, I want everything to be. But, the fish is already in there. I check the water parameters often. The ammonia and nitrite are at zero.
Enjoy the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwLl3LMzVjw

[brewmaster15]

They look great Sandip. Very healthy fish and obviously well cared for! Keep up the great work!

[Sandip]

They look great Sandip. Very healthy fish and obviously well cared for! Keep up the great work!

Thank you Al for the encouragement.

Time to get my water aging barrel filled. It's a 55 gallon barrel and takes 20 minutes to fill!

[Iminit]

Discus look great!! But as I count the 6 I keep hitting 8. Ok what’s up??

[Sandip]

Discus look great!! But as I count the 6 I keep hitting 8. Ok what’s up??

Lol. I have 9 in that tank. 6 from my 50 gallon and 3 from a 20 gallon. All from Golden state discus. After a while changing water on two tanks separately, while maintaining separate hose and buckets became too much work. Gave up and put them in. So far no problem. They have been together for 2 weeks now. Fingers crossed.

[Sandip]

Hi Friends, I have been away from the forum for a few weeks. Had some medical emergency in the family, followed by me catching a bad flu. Ugh. Things were pretty bad for my family. But, everything is ok now. We have recovered.
My fish are doing well. I have some exciting news to share with you all. My fishes were laying eggs as I have previously mentioned in this thread.
But today, for the first time ever, I am seeing actual babies. Around 15-20 of them at that!! This is in a community tank with 9 discus. Can you imagine?!!!
I know the babies probably won't survive but the fact that the eggs hatched and I got babies from them is an awesome experience in itself.

[fishy_jim]

Hi Friends, I have been away from the forum for a few weeks. Had some medical emergency in the family, followed by me catching a bad flu. Ugh. Things were pretty bad for my family. But, everything is ok now. We have recovered.
My fish are doing well. I have some exciting news to share with you all. My fishes were laying eggs as I have previously mentioned in this thread.
But today, for the first time ever, I am seeing actual babies. Around 15-20 of them at that!! This is in a community tank with 9 discus. Can you imagine?!!!
I know the babies probably won't survive but the fact that the eggs hatched and I got babies from them is an awesome experience in itself.

That is AWESOME !!

[Adamski77]

Outstanding!