Prepping for another group--wilds?

[Tshethar]

Hey everyone!

Truth be told, Al saw me lurking on the site the other day and here he is reminding folks like me, who mainly like to watch and learn from the real old timers, that it is helpful to come out of the shadows once in a while and generate some content.

So, I've been out of the game since rehoming my discus in 2021 but I am slowly getting the 125 in my dining/living area ready. I played around with some plants and such in the interim but... just not the same.

Slowly siphoning out the substrate when I have time and soaking some large driftwood in a barrel outside.

One thing I have not decided is what to do with the 14 harlequin rasboras I have had going in there for the last two years. I enjoy them and I have seen some (limited) indication online that they could manage at 82. Anyone tried them?

Thing is, I want to get a sizeable discus group at once (maybe 7-10) and start them in the 125, with wood and ceramic tile on the bottom. Would prefer to medicate as needed in the main tank as I have no fishroom, or basement, garage, or any other space that will not cause domestic turmoil should I break my 40 breeders out of the shed and start setting up things that masquerade as "temporary" QT tanks in awkward places. :-) (Could maaaybe pull this off if absolutely necessary, probably at some cost...:))

Naturally I have some concern about cross-contamination if I leave the rabsoras in, though. I could move them to a 55 in my son's room with some other tetras and such at least until the new fish are settled--or keep them in to help with that. I could also treat them with metro-infused food to try to clean them up as much as possible, though I haven't brought any livestock or plants into the house in 2 years and they're currently happy in clean water. Also have some BN plecos and a mango pleco I would like to move over from the 55 at some point...

What say you, SD folks?

Are you keeping the system essentially as is the rasboras and plecos and bringing in the wilds, adding a little salt, maybe some tannins/rooibos and keeping an eye on things? Or are you sterilizing the 125 and recycling it without fish, QTing the discus in there for 6 weeks, and then bringing over plecos, etc.? Something in between?

Once we settle that, I am looking forward to any leads on wild discus I can actually afford. Much as I love scouring the internet and seeing what ends up in Europe from the big name exporters, I think my budget may have me starting with medium-sized wild greens... probably from Gabe, maybe from John. :p

Thanks in advance and all the best.

--Bill

[TTW]

I have rasbora harlequin in with my wilds. They are at 85° and doing well.

[Tshethar]

Thanks for that, and glad to hear it. They are one of the first fish I ever had and I find them more engaging personally than a number of other tetras I've had, and hardier. Having had mixed luck with cardinals and rummy nose in the past, this is good news.

[brewmaster15]

Bill,
Theres also been an increased interest in overseas bred wilds and wild crosses. Might want to check into these . I have seen some really nice ones being sold .

Hope that helps.

[Sandip]

Hey everyone!

Truth be told, Al saw me lurking on the site the other day and here he is reminding folks like me, who mainly like to watch and learn from the real old timers, that it is helpful to come out of the shadows once in a while and generate some content.

So, I've been out of the game since rehoming my discus in 2021 but I am slowly getting the 125 in my dining/living area ready. I played around with some plants and such in the interim but... just not the same.

Slowly siphoning out the substrate when I have time and soaking some large driftwood in a barrel outside.

One thing I have not decided is what to do with the 14 harlequin rasboras I have had going in there for the last two years. I enjoy them and I have seen some (limited) indication online that they could manage at 82. Anyone tried them?

Thing is, I want to get a sizeable discus group at once (maybe 7-10) and start them in the 125, with wood and ceramic tile on the bottom. Would prefer to medicate as needed in the main tank as I have no fishroom, or basement, garage, or any other space that will not cause domestic turmoil should I break my 40 breeders out of the shed and start setting up things that masquerade as "temporary" QT tanks in awkward places. :-) (Could maaaybe pull this off if absolutely necessary, probably at some cost...:))

Naturally I have some concern about cross-contamination if I leave the rabsoras in, though. I could move them to a 55 in my son's room with some other tetras and such at least until the new fish are settled--or keep them in to help with that. I could also treat them with metro-infused food to try to clean them up as much as possible, though I haven't brought any livestock or plants into the house in 2 years and they're currently happy in clean water. Also have some BN plecos and a mango pleco I would like to move over from the 55 at some point...

What say you, SD folks?

Are you keeping the system essentially as is the rasboras and plecos and bringing in the wilds, adding a little salt, maybe some tannins/rooibos and keeping an eye on things? Or are you sterilizing the 125 and recycling it without fish, QTing the discus in there for 6 weeks, and then bringing over plecos, etc.? Something in between?

Once we settle that, I am looking forward to any leads on wild discus I can actually afford. Much as I love scouring the internet and seeing what ends up in Europe from the big name exporters, I think my budget may have me starting with medium-sized wild greens... probably from Gabe, maybe from John. :p

Thanks in advance and all the best.

--Bill

Looking forward to seeing pictures of your tank and fish.
My request is to not mix the discus with any other fish. I know its not a popular opinion. Cross-contamination is a problem worth considering. Rasboras look more beautiful in a nice planted tank, whereas growing the discus is best achieved in a bare bottom tank focussed on discus only. Temp differences & feeding the rasboras will cause you some problem. Can it be not done? Yes, many thousands people have done it. But, for me mixing discus with bunch of other fishes increases your list of "things to worry about".

Anyway, will wait for you to share pictures.

[Willie]

I would disagree with this assessment. I keep discus with a variety of other species, including corydoras, L-number plecos, rams and tetras. And I do it without quarantine or medication for the other fish. (Except for wild caught corys that get Formalin, but that's a different story.) Similarly, I wouldn't quarantine cats and dogs which are different species.

Having said that, I am a fanatic about quarantine for discus. New fish gets a minimum of 6 weeks by themselves. In almost every case, the new discus go into a separate tank for the long term.

[brewmaster15]

I would disagree with this assessment. I keep discus with a variety of other species, including corydoras, L-number plecos, rams and tetras. And I do it without quarantine or medication for the other fish. (Except for wild caught corys that get Formalin, but that's a different story.) Similarly, I wouldn't quarantine cats and dogs which are different species.

Having said that, I am a fanatic about quarantine for discus. New fish gets a minimum of 6 weeks by themselves. In almost every case, the new discus go into a separate tank for the long term.
Willie you are a braver soul than me. No way I would ever mix any other fish species with my discus without treating them exactly like my discus. Too many pathogens are not species specific for me.

That said ..Im curious where you typically buy your non-discus fish?
Al

[Willie]

Most of my corys and L-number plecos come via Craig's List. Tetras come from local hobbyists and independent fish stores.

[Tshethar]

Thanks for everyone's input--I particularly like hearing some discussion about how folks think about QT in relation to non-discus fish.

While I have been feeling like I could afford to be a little lax, assuming I get adult, wild caught fish that have been settled in the U.S. for a while and gone through QT protocols at least a couple of times, I'm probably going to be careful just in case since I do this so rarely.

My fish haven't seen anything from outside the house in at least two years, but they obviously are not sterile creatures and there's always a chance that whatever they live happily with could upset a weak/stressed/juvenile discus. Not currently expecting to be working with one of those, but... there's always a chance that shipping doesn't go so well. Or maybe a supplier sends a fish that would seem to slot in well for the bottom of the pecking order... (hope not!)

With these thoughts in mind my current plan, halfway executed, is to temporarily move the rasboras out of the 125 and hold them with the plecos in the 55 I have. Since I'm redoing the tank it seems like I might as well. I might consider treating them in that tank while the discus go through QT.

As for the long-term plan, it is a discus tank for sure... No worries, Sandip, about a grow-out attempt in a community tank with substrate! ;-) Since it is a display, though, I'm hoping I can manage some kind of aesthetic that accentuates them. We'll see...

Appreciate your thoughts on the wild-type hybrids, Al. I have noticed there are some Heckel crosses on the market, for example, and I've seen Peruvian greens that are tank raised. My favorite fish in the past were F1 Alenquers (or at least sold that way), and I am definitely tempted by some--though not all--of what I am seeing. The closer the tank raised fish are to looking wild the better I like them. For example, I've seen some images of Ica discus that look to me kind of like a red cover with a center bar, and I've also seen some blue heckel crosses that look like a little like a blue tiger turquoise (or similiar) but with a heavy center bar. Those are not really what I'm after.

I have also seen some pics from hobbyists that look more promising... I might try to talk with some of the folks who advertise them. While I was thinking to go with young adults, I could potentially grow out a hobbyist's younger fish if there are people out there who have been able to spawn their wilds...

I confess I have thought about trying Heckels but I know their reputation. My tap water is 6.5 with low TDS so maybe I'm not crazy to think they could do alright. I've read the wild greens are a safer bet... but open to persuasion in just about any direction so long as the tank isn't ready.

[Willie]

I'd stay away from Heckels. Kept them back in the day and they did well. But when I got the pH below 5.5 with pure R/O and acid, they really came alive. Needless to say, keeping pH that low is a constant challenge. Otherwise, you're not seeing these fish at their best.

[Tshethar]

Appreciate hearing from you on that question, Willie. Being realistic, I will probably not be able to manage their water with enough attentiveness to dial in a lower pH than I get from my tap, and to stay on top of it.

I imagine I could keep them alright and of course I would try some tricks especially at the outset but that is a different experience from feeling like I could confidently enable them to really thrive over the long haul, without anybody falling behind, looking timid, etc. Personally I like their appearance a lot but I also like the idea of starting with young adult wild greens that might not look like all that much color-wise at the start and waiting to see how they develop in an environment they are happy about.

I think the (limited) experience I have with discus to this point is enough to remind me that their behavior is really a huge part of the fun and matters a lot. No fun having sullen fish in an environment that isn't working for some reason or other. I'm okay with fish that might seem less striking or visually appealing if they are healthy and active, ready to eat and show off, etc.

[Discus Fever]

Don't get to hung up on PH for the wilds, they can adjust just fine in 6.5 to 7.0. When people try to mimic exact conditions in the Amazon that when PH crashes happen and you lose your discus. Just remember that discus are hardier than you think even wilds. I had a friend who use to raise beautiful discus in a PH of 8.9 for many years that were big and healthy, but did switch the breeding pairs to RO once they paired off.

[Tshethar]

Just posted in the thread you started about (potentially) manipulating pH... I'm highly unlikely to do it as my tap water is generally well suited for wilds (so long as I pre-filter it, but that's another story...) I'm still curious, though, about how people sometimes manage that to bring out the best in them...

The tank itself is almost ready but the wood I was thinking to use looks like it isn't going to sink, so I am still getting the hardscape set and will go to plan B there. Otherwise just need to tweak a few things and will hope to add fish in the next couple of weeks.