Murphy's journey

[brewmaster15]

I thought I would start a thread documenting the journey of a sickly weak discus who I have named Murphy.. in recognition of Murphy's Law. Murphy the discus exemplifies how you can do everything right with a tank of discus and still have things go wrong.


Murphy's backstory...

Back in July 2023 my good friend Brian shipped me a group of really nice fry he raised. They are a meteor x ruby red cross. I have a journal thread here... http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?139973-My-New-Fishes-Meteor-X-Ruby-Red-(-Thanks-Jeep!) Which I will be updating soon.

All the fish in that group arrived alive and well with great appetites. As per my strict protocol all fish were quarantined and actually still are in QT. After settling a week, they were all dewormed with levamisol. I do this no matter where I get my fish. I do 3 treatments over a 5 week period. Once done I never deworm again. My quarantine relies alot on watching. I deal with things as I note them. Nothing off was noted so no other treatments were used on this group.

For food they have gotten my Discus Chow and DiskusGold now as their primary meal 3-4 x aday. When I feed, I feed on one side of the tank 125 gal to mimimize mess and the fish are trained to feed there. All would eat voraciously but over time I noticed Murphy was not that aggressive. He would swim with the pack but just picked.. .. over time he would not join the pack at all. They would eagerly eat.. murphy stayed away from the group. I started feeding him off to the other side of the tank and he would again eat but not aggressively. The other 11 were wolves at feeding. Murphy was barely touching the food. His color started fading. His siblings are at least twice his size.Murphy was officially the runt in the tank.


The runt.. the smallest weakest discus in a group. Most discus tanks have one. Its almost like they drawstraws for the role because when you get them...you never know who it could be. It doesn't mean they are sick just that they are weak. Being a runt though does come with a higher chance of a pathogen getting established in that fish so it can affect the rest of the tank. As a rule I would remove the weak fish. When I get a group of small fish in I always anticipate a few wont make it to adulthood. Truthfully, Murphy should be culled.

Instead I set Murphy up with a 10 gal hotel suite, barebones 'insulated all sides, 50 watt heater and cycled air driven sponge . TEMP SET at 85F. I moved him last week. He was not happy at all. . He hung in the upper corner . I covered the tank front with plastic so he could grow accustomed to the tank. I did not offer food on day 1. I didn't offer it on day 2 or 3 either. Just let him be. After three days I started offering some pellets.. I counted how many I added. Not many were offered ,10 pellets.The next day 3 were gone. Its a start I thought to myself. That was last week. This week he is still shy but Not hiding as much. I have added freeze dried black worms to the menu and though I havent seen him eat them, I think he has. (Obviously I dont know Murphy is a male)

Today..
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[Vanman]

I have a Murphy also. Of the eight Discus I have he is the only one that I have never actually seen eat beef heart. Six really go after it, one picks at the crumbs, and my Murphy swims with the pack but does not eat the BH. He eats FDBW and pellets. He is also one of the two smallest. We refer to them as the problem children. This is why I started with eight instead of six.

[brewmaster15]

So whats my goal? Honestly I have little doubt that Murphy will not grow big. This will probably end with him being culled. But I want to illustrate that medication and treatments arent always the answer.Sometimes a fish is just weak. There is no sign of illness.Its not a protozoan problem. METRONIDAZOLE will not fix this..PP definitely wont. :) Im fairly sure that Murphy is just weak. CLEAN Water, stable tank conditions, removing the stress factors have already made all the difference in his appetite and behaviour. He has not been treated with anything since he was dewormed a few months ago with his tank mates..

I don't know what I will do with Murphy at this point. I will keep him separate and feed him well.He will get daily big water changes with aged tap water and we will see. I will document and update. The rest is up to Murphy. Maybe he will turn around enough to grow out with his sibling again and see how big he gets.

One promise I can make is I will not treat him with anything...hes not suffering from anything here that I think we can treat. This is just how nature works..some offspring are weak and do not survive.


Al

[brewmaster15]

I have a Murphy also. Of the eight Discus I have he is the only one that I have never actually seen eat beef heart. Six really go after it, one picks at the crumbs, and my Murphy swims with the pack but does not eat the BH. He eats FDBW and pellets. He is also one of the two smallest. We refer to them as the problem children. This is why I started with eight instead of six.
Yep they are problem children! I do as you.. always start with a few more when buying small.

Al

[brewmaster15]

Murphy ventures out just after a large water change. Photo taken from across the room where he can't see me.136575

[jeep]

Poor guy, looks like he hasn't grown in a month. You're right, sometimes it just happens and there's nothing we can do about it.

[CliffsDiscus]

Poor Murphy, already behind growth it would be difficult to catch up. Try raising temperature and feeding live black worms.

Cliff

[brewmaster15]

Poor Murphy, already behind growth it would be difficult to catch up. Try raising temperature and feeding live black worms.

Cliff

I agree Cliff. They usually don't catch up. Tanks at 85F and though I won't feed him live Blackworms, he will have a continuous supply of freeze dried australian ones.

Al

[Second Hand Pat]

This is a worthwhile experiment Al. While I am not expecting Murphy to catch up sometimes they can surprise you.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Pat.. time will tell. So far he is doing better than I expected.

I posted updated photos of his siblings here..
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?139973-My-New-Fishes-Meteor-X-Ruby-Red-(-Thanks-Jeep!)

If any wants to have a look.
Al

[brewmaster15]

Murphy is eagerly eating freeze dried blackworms now. I've trained him to eat in the corner of the tank where I submerge a half a cube and press it to the wall.


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Pics are from across the room

[Second Hand Pat]

Nice going Al :) So it is still not ok with you next to the tank?
Pat

[brewmaster15]

It is better Pat but likes to hide behind the sponge. Its a normal behavior for a small lone discus. He swims around the tank normally if theres no activity in the room.

[brewmaster15]

Murphy has been doing really well in his hospital suite. So well that i decided to put him back in the 125 gal this morning with his siblings. At feeding tonight he was right there in the mix with his tankmates. Huge improvement in behavior and appetite.He is still the small guy in the tank but is holding his own. I will still update on him as he grows or doesnt.. one thing I have noticed is he has slightly floppy fins which is usually from not getting enough food or some other imbalance in his system. If he matures I should be able to trim the fins and correct it... we will see.



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No meds given.. just a little R&R

Al

[Iminit]

I guess we all do this. For me just to tough to cull something still living. My 2 just weren’t swimming properly. They were tail standing. Definitely looked like something was wrong with them. Also they were the smallest. So I to removed them at about the 2nd week. Added them to a 20g first then when the rest went into the 20 they went into a 5. Neither was swimming right. But both were still eating. I didn’t think they’d live. But now they do look fine. Half the size of the rest.136820 but now they are both swimming fine. No problem now.

[brewmaster15]

I guess we all do this. For me just to tough to cull something still living. My 2 just weren’t swimming properly. They were tail standing. Definitely looked like something was wrong with them. Also they were the smallest. So I to removed them at about the 2nd week. Added them to a 20g first then when the rest went into the 20 they went into a 5. Neither was swimming right. But both were still eating. I didn’t think they’d live. But now they do look fine. Half the size of the rest.136820 but now they are both swimming fine. No problem now.

Im okay with culling.. Its really an important part of breeding. Its not fun by any means but in most cases the things we cull for nature would cull for in the wild by starvation,predations, or just delete by natural selection during mate selection. I believe if we want nice high quality discus in the hobby and are breeding discus (or any fish) we have an obligation to cull sickly or deformed discus. One might also extend that to discus with other undesireable traits like excessive peppering. Etc.

[brewmaster15]

Just an update here.Murphy is doing very well. He has even put on a little size.. but he is still the small guy in the tank. Normally I might be concerned he was being intimidated but hes not.. blackworm cube enters the water and Murphy is on it like the largest.. You can see a side by side comparison here of Murphy to the others.

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[ravvlet]

Hows the little guy doing now?

[brewmaster15]

Hows the little guy doing now?

Hes actually doing pretty good.. still one of the small ones but growing still..

Bad pic.. but you can see him well enough.
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[ravvlet]

Awww! Love that for him and you! How big are he and his siblings now?

[brewmaster15]

Hes close to 3" his sibling have an inch on him.As long as he continues to grow and his eye size to body ration stays good he should be a decent fish.. time will tell.:)

[ravvlet]

Well, I’m rooting for him! Cool to see how he’s slowly catching back up. It’s so much extra effort to give them a boost, but I hope it ends up being worth it!

[Adamski77]

Every time I see this thread I'm cheering for Murphy... at the same time I think every tank has Murphy in it... I think I have one too...

[Bathi]

This is very nice thread.

[LizStreithorst]

It's a good thing little Murphy doesn't live in one of my tanks. He'd have been a goner a long time ago.

[Discus Fever]

Glad Murphy is making a rebound and that the other discus stopped picking on him so he can live a normal life with them, keep up the great work AL!!!

[brewmaster15]

It's a good thing little Murphy doesn't live in one of my tanks. He'd have been a goner a long time ago.

Liz, its all a matter of goals. Foremost for me my goal on the forum is to educate.... demonstrate ..experiment... learn beyond whats parroted.

If Murphy turns out decent..great.. If he turns out runted and mishappen despite great care.. thats good too. Why? Because its all documented for all to learn from.

Again.. another way this forum is different from facebook.:)

[brewmaster15]

Glad Murphy is making a rebound and that the other discus stopped picking on him so he can live a normal life with them, keep up the great work AL!!!

Thanks Scott..so far all is well.:)

[jeep]

Murphy's little cousin Vinny DOB 9-24-23

This little one is almost 3 months old and about the size of a dime. I hate to cull him/her because it's very energetic, has a very decent shape and is the first one to the food every time. The ones around him are his brothers and sisters born on the same day, lol...

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[brewmaster15]

Wow Vinny is the poster child for runt! :)