New to Discuss But Here is My Current Plan (any holes in my Plan??)

[Sir]

Hey All,

Pretty much as the title says I'm new discus but have been doing as much reading and research as I can before I commit.

And I do know that it might be a bit rich asking for help being so new, but any advice or guidance, as I try to enter the hobby without completely ballsing up my first attempt, would be very much appreciated.

I have come up with some skeleton of a plan and was wondering if it sounds reasonable and my rough numbers are right, or weather there is anything that could be done better or weather there are any massive holes that need to be addressed.

My current plan is;
- 55g (maybe 75g just worried about water changes and heating of a tank that size.)
- Bare bottom with 2 or 3 sponge filters
- Cycle new tank with goldfish or something similar which can end up in my pond, for approx 6 weeks or until everything seems stable.
- paint 2, potentially 3, sides of the tank to stop them from being spooked by any other activity while no hiding spots are available
- Remove goldfish and perform a 90% water change
- Introduce 6-8 5/6cm blood pigeons or Checkerboard and keep them for 4 weeks or so.
- If they all is going well purchase 6-8 of a different strain and quarantine for 4 weeks in a 20g
- If all new fish are healthy after a month put them in the larger tank
- attempt to grow but to 12cm quickly as possible (hopefully 9-12months if that's not unreasonable)
- 3 feeds a day 6:30am 4:30pm 7:30pm
- Have temp set to 30 degrees C
- have a trickle water change that will do 25% per day ie. add about 15g over the course of the day. Probably timed at 1g every hour for 15hrs set up with a timer, a flow meter, and a solenoid plus a float switch that will stop everything in case anything goes awry. And just have an overflow at the other end of the tank that ill dump directly into a drain. This will depend on weather I can keep the water temp high enough and constant as I will not be able to plumb in 30 degree water. Alternatively 50% twice a week.
- vac ground twice a week or when needed

- As fish grow out remove/sell/donate least favourite fish or fish that have not paired to reduce numbers to 6-8 large discus for a lightly scaped and lightly planted display tank with sump and a few terrestrial plants hanging over the top.

I know that this is only the bare bones but and there is soo much more the learn on the journey but I can't wait to get into it.

Cheers,

P.S. if anyone knows any reputable breeders in Australia (Ideally Melbourne) that would be an awesome help too.

[brewmaster15]

Hello,
A few suggestions..

If the 75 gal is possible go with that... its a better option .
Instead of two introductions of 6-8 fish...buy all the fish at the same time from the same vendor. ADD NO MORE FISH FROM ANY SOURCE .
STRONGLY Advise using our sponsors fir healthy stock.

10-12 fish total in a 75 gal is a Good growout out group for 3" discus.


Do not cycle biofilters using other fish especially pond fish/goldfish. Too much disease potential there.. since you have no fish yet.. be patient and use ammonia fishless cycling.

Al

[Sir]

Hello,
A few suggestions..

If the 75 gal is possible go with that... its a better option .
Instead of two introductions of 6-8 fish...buy all the fish at the same time from the same vendor. ADD NO MORE FISH FROM ANY SOURCE .
STRONGLY Advise using our sponsors fir healthy stock.

10-12 fish total in a 75 gal is a Good growout out group for 3" discus.


Do not cycle biofilters using other fish especially pond fish/goldfish. Too much disease potential there.. since you have no fish yet.. be patient and use ammonia fishless cycling.

Al

Thanks for the advice. I kind of knew that a 75g was the right answer but it jut seems like a bit of an intimidating size to maintain with such high demands but I think I will.

So I shouldn't use sponge filters that have been seasoned in my other tanks either (Loach tank, Fancy goldfish tank, Betta tanks, or a community tank)?

I normally use guppies like they use canaries down a mine shaft when I set up new tanks as I've had expensive fish die after being put into tank that had been fishless cycled and had good parameters.

Instead of a goldfish is there anything that would be a safe option, before I add $500 worth of Discus, like fish out of my other tanks that I have had for years and have been disease free. Just to make sure that the water is liveable.

or in your opinion is the best option to just do all the basic first steps right with cycling and testing and commit to trusting the process.

[brewmaster15]

Ammonia fishless cycling should work fine.. its used alot. The problem with your current fish and tanks is that although they seem healthy they can act as carriers. Some fish species can harbor parasites and show no symptoms.. once introduced to discus that changes. Things like worms ,cryptobia, and marine TB come to mind.

When you start with a fishless cycle you only are dealing with the discus and what they brought with them. It makes life a lot easier. Once those discus are settled in and you are sure they are healthy its common to use those tanks to cycle other discus tanks.

Of course if you are sure your non -discus tanks are not going to be an issue you can opt to cycle from those tanks..its a gamble but people do do that.

Al

[bluelagoon]

Also, there's no skimping on fresh water, so if the cost of water or lack of, is an issue discus will not work. When you say trickle WC. Does that mean that the water will be coming in at the same time water goes out? Or will your tank drain first before new water starts coming back in? Reason: if it's a continuous trickle in and out then you'll need go through a lot more water volume to reach the the amount that you want removed. Just because in a tickle in and out you'll be removing half the new water along with the dirty. Also sending $500 on discus I wouldn't risk cycling with other fish. Ammonia like mentioned should give you a disease free environment to begin with. It will still take about 4- 6 weeks to cycle a tank either way.

[brewmaster15]

As for Aussie sellers, I just pm'd you with contact info for Rod Lewis is Brisbane, You wont find a better resource there. hope the contact info is still good. Been awhile.

al

[Iminit]

Well my view is since you’re getting small discus you’ll need to shelf the water change system. 2-3” discus will need daily water changes till 4-5” so figure 4+ months. So being you’re going this way a fish in cycle is the way I did it. StRt the tank when you’re ready to order fish. Let it run a week so everything is working correctly and you’ve figured out how to change the needed water. Change 70+ percent water the day before delivery. Add fish and feed about 6x a day. You will notice the mess at the bottom of the tank and realize why you’re changing that much water.

Yes go with a 75 or better as your main tank. But your grow out tank will only need to be a 55. So this gives you time to set up your main tank. Now you’ve got those 2 tanks and a 20-29 will be needed for a qt tank 2 better:). For me I started with media from my community tank. I trust my tanks and it worked out fine.

Ok now since you’re new to discus the much better approach is to buy large fish. 5-6”. Yes more money up front but you get exactly what you want. Not a picture of what they could look like. Plus being full grown you can add them right to your main tank and now you’re off keeping discus :). In a 75 start with 6. Keep them for a year before thinking of getting more. Getting more should also mean more tanks :). Your chances of being able to keep large discus is much easier than small discus. In the end the small discus will cost more than spending up front on the large ones. Much less stress :). If buying discus now all I buy is 5+” fish.

[brewmaster15]

Well my view is since you’re getting small discus you’ll need to shelf the water change system. 2-3” discus will need daily water changes till 4-5” so figure 4+ months. So being you’re going this way a fish in cycle is the way I did it. StRt the tank when you’re ready to order fish. Let it run a week so everything is working correctly and you’ve figured out how to change the needed water. Change 70+ percent water the day before delivery. Add fish and feed about 6x a day. You will notice the mess at the bottom of the tank and realize why you’re changing that much water.

Yes go with a 75 or better as your main tank. But your grow out tank will only need to be a 55. So this gives you time to set up your main tank. Now you’ve got those 2 tanks and a 20-29 will be needed for a qt tank 2 better:). For me I started with media from my community tank. I trust my tanks and it worked out fine.

Ok now since you’re new to discus the much better approach is to buy large fish. 5-6”. Yes more money up front but you get exactly what you want. Not a picture of what they could look like. Plus being full grown you can add them right to your main tank and now you’re off keeping discus :). In a 75 start with 6. Keep them for a year before thinking of getting more. Getting more should also mean more tanks :). Your chances of being able to keep large discus is much easier than small discus. In the end the small discus will cost more than spending up front on the large ones. Much less stress :). If buying discus now all I buy is 5+” fish.

Tom you are going to scare him away!:)



Ok now since you’re new to discus the much better approach is to buy large fish. 5-6”. Yes more money up front but you get exactly what you want. Not a picture of what they could look like. Plus being full grown you can add them right to your main tank and now you’re off keeping discus . In a 75 start with 6. Keep them for a year before thinking of getting more. Getting more should also mean more tanks . Your chances of being able to keep large discus is much easier than small discus. In the end the small discus will cost more than spending up front on the large ones. Much less stress . If buying discus now all I buy is 5+” fish. True to an extent Tom, but you are buying them Piecemeal.. here and there 1 or two at a time. The financial pain is less immediate. Asking a novice to fill a tank with expensive large Discus is not practical for most people. Besides that you get old fish, its like driving a new car off the lot.. its already lost a chunk of value. :) Theres nothing wrong with starting with 3 inch fish and learning from the experience. Unless someone is very wealthy that the route most hobbyists go.

al

[Iminit]

Al I hear you. But with small discus you need to change water daily! Just a fact! Well unless you go on Facebook. Then you only need to change water weekly. Told to you by people who love their stunted fish and only post for a month or 2. That’s the extent of their discus keeping time. And yes it expensive up front. So you can spend up front and start with some really nice discus and learn to care for these great fish. People tend to care more for things they spend a lot of money on. Or buy some small discus with the hope that they grow out to look like the picture that you bought from. Next you spend the money raising the fish only to realize these arnt what you ordered! Or even worse you buy small discus from a pet store and end up with already stunted fish that the guy told you he just got in. Just telling it the way it is!

[brewmaster15]

Tom you arent wrong exactly and you are telling it how it is..to you.:)

... but honestly and its coming from a lifetime of rearing discus.. anything that will kill or harm a 3" discus will do the same to 4,5,6 " fish. By 3 " they arent much different . 2 inch and smaller are challenging.

As I said ..its one thing to tell novices to buy those adults but it wont happen . Novices arent going to spend all that cash on their first discus venture. . It just isnt practical for most. Big fish are fine if you are buying a few.. but to filla tank....not something most will do.

[brewmaster15]

And you dont need to change water daily with 3 inch fish.. its a myth.

[brewmaster15]

And before anyone gets up in arms that
I said daily water changes being needed on 3 " discus is a myth .. the reason is because it doesnt take into account stocking densities ,filtration,food fed, water pH, or volume changed Its just a dogma we stick to . Its perfectly possible to have good growth and development with every other day changes or some other water change regiment... I know that as fact. Water turn over is important but its different for every tank depending on a host of factors.

[fljones3]

If the 75 gal is possible go with that... its a better option .

10-12 fish total in a 75 gal is a Good growout out group for 3" discus.

Al

Al, if 10-12 total in a 75g is a good growout, what about adult size (6 inch)? 10 g per adult discus rule?

[seanyuki]

The 10g per fish rule is not a rule at all. Its just safe guidance for new people to the hobby. Things are easier to control if a newcomer sticks to the guidance until they get some expereince behind them. It all depends on things such as your source water, what you feed, your experience with discus, size of discus, filtration, water changes, etc.

[Sir]

Also, there's no skimping on fresh water, so if the cost of water or lack of, is an issue discus will not work. When you say trickle WC. Does that mean that the water will be coming in at the same time water goes out? Or will your tank drain first before new water starts coming back in? Reason: if it's a continuous trickle in and out then you'll need go through a lot more water volume to reach the the amount that you want removed. Just because in a tickle in and out you'll be removing half the new water along with the dirty. Also sending $500 on discus I wouldn't risk cycling with other fish. Ammonia like mentioned should give you a disease free environment to begin with. It will still take about 4- 6 weeks to cycle a tank either way.

Not the cost or lack of water just the time and energy but I suppose if I'm already at 55g what's another 20g. And my thought was to have a system that would do a gallon or 2 every hour for a total of about 25% a day then do a larger like 75% once a week. I'm committed to trying to grow health fish but I'm also trying to start and keep a maintenance schedule I can handle.

From what I gather the common consensus is change as much as possible as often as possible.

The 25% the was definitely not set in stone nor the 75% once a week. Just thought that they would be a good starting point to see where we end up but if it doesn't seem enough I'm here to listen and learn.

[fljones3]

The 10g per fish rule is not a rule at all. Its just safe guidance for new people to the hobby. Things are easier to control if a newcomer sticks to the guidance until they get some expereince behind them. It all depends on things such as your source water, what you feed, your experience with discus, size of discus, filtration, water changes, etc.

Thanks Francis. More fish, more WC. I was just quoting the "rule" in general.

[Vanman]

I am growing out eight in a 55. A 75 would be much better. They were three inch fish when I bought them two and a half months ago. I am using a couple spare 55s to age water. The tanks are all drilled about six inches from the bottom on the back side and plumbed to a drain. I siphon the bottom, starting the siphon with a drill powered pump, then open the drain valve, and refill with a submerged pump in the aging tank. Lastly refill the aging tank by opening a plumbed in valve. All said it takes about 25 minutes. We do this twice a day. Once a day would be enough, but twice is better. About as much time and effort as some walking a dog. Oh, we feed four times a day. Beef heart before the water change, pellets once, and FDBW once.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. You just need to find what works best for you.

The 25 minutes was an estimate. I just did a WC. It took 9 minutes to siphon, drain, and refill. It took a total of 17 minutes including topping off the water ageing tanks. I usually top them off after every WC, but I can do it every other WC. It really does not take very long if you set everything up from the beginning to make it easy.

[brewmaster15]

The 10g per fish rule is not a rule at all. Its just safe guidance for new people to the hobby. Things are easier to control if a newcomer sticks to the guidance until they get some expereince behind them. It all depends on things such as your source water, what you feed, your experience with discus, size of discus, filtration, water changes, etc.

Spot on Francis!

Frank , In a discus only 75 g tank with more than adequate filtration (2 aquaclear 110s and a couple of air driven sponges 11 Adult discus has worked for me with 30 % water changes everyother day Thats why I suggested 12 to grow out .. its likely a loss or two will happen along the way. Ultimately I think 8-9 adults in a 75 is a good number. If you have driftwood,potted plants and other fish I would stick to less .. 5-6 adults.

Thats kind of what I was trying to get across .. there are no hard fast rules. When we do daily large water changes its because we know we arent going to be doing less than we should .. but that doesnt mean that we didnt do more than we needed...its a better safe than sorry methodology. AND IT WORKS. .. So is good for novices. Clean water is key but it is not like 6 fish in a 75 gal make the same waste as 12 fish so why do you need the same water change.. you technically don't. Its a numbers game or you do daily large water changes as the safe bet route.