brewmaster15
10-27-2023, 05:49 PM
Some Folks have it in there heads Discus are weak...
Lets talk about that ( TOM) ;)
Are discus a weak fish? My views, and I have kept everything from Marine to africans besides Discus. They are not a weak fish. As a matter of a fact, their biology gives them an edge, Elsewhere on the forum A comment was made about discus being weak because they need their parents? (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?140115-8-day-old-fry!-Some-questions):evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin: Hard to fathom that being a weakness, its an evolutionary survival trait that propelled mammals to the top. But lets look at Discus Fry needing their parents? Why would they? Its not because they are weak its because it increases their odds of surviving. Not only are they able to get a safe food source but the slime coat they eat actually has antibodies in it and is more than just "slime" , Theres a reason why early Discus keepers called it "milk" There is also this notion that fry need to eat from their parents. They don't. Thats why we can artificially raise them. They need a food source small enough to eat, like all baby fish. In the wild any micro-organisms that can be eaten are, including algae and invertebrates, In our tanks we supplement with baby brine.
Discus Evolved in waters thats are in the low 5's in pH , Heckels in the Low 4's. Lets see an african cichlid or even a marine species survive in that and thrive. and yet we expect our discus to thrive in waters that are 6, 7, 8 pH? Seriously! and guess what, they do! Thats not the mark of a weak fish. Its the mark of a highly adaptable strong one.
Lets see , a wild discus is caught miles and miles away, is floated down to an export point, sent to a wholesaler, sent to a retailer, then to the hobbyist. The process may take months. In the process they are exposed to god only knows how many pathogens and varying water qualities. And yet they survive and then often survive for months under all the wrong care before dying and earning the misnomer "weak"
How about this nonsense that they die without an insane amount of water changes...surely a sign of weakness? What fish needs 100% water changes a day? Discus don't need it, 50% a day, they don't need it, 30 % a day, they don't need it. Sure they like it. but people often do water changes with out even thinking about the tanks stocking density, foods fed and filtration. I have seen people with a ton of fish in a small tank.They want every color of the rainbow and only have one tank and they can't spare the time to give an appropriate amount of water changes,Obviously if the tanks over stocked and poorly kept the fish will get sick...any fish will. You do need to do water changes, but how much isn't written in stone, its a matter of science and trial and error for some, for successful hobbyists its often just plain common sense. That goes for every aquatic organism we keep.
I'm going to be flat out honest... Its not the discus that are weak. Its the hobbyists that don't take the time to understand the fish that are weak.Their knowledge of what Discus need is weak, and their commitment to proper care is weak. Every species of fish has certain requirements that need to be met. Proper care needs to be taken when raising any animal. Keep it outside those parameters and they are prone to illness and death. If you leave a dog in a hot car or frigid winter and it dies, is it the fault of the dog? was it weak or was the owners care and commitment to taking care of that poor animal weak?
I'm blown away by the rampant use of hormones, caustic chemicals, prophylactic antibiotics, purely anecdotal and unproven treatments and just total bunk done to Discus. And yet even then this "weak fish" can take months to waste away and die. Weak? Hardly!
Its Funny how with a only a handful of simple guidelines Discus thrive and can live years and years. Yet some folks want to call them weak.
1) good clean water
2) good nutritious food
3) appropriate Temperatures (82-86F for discus)
4) healthy starting stock
Whats even more absurd is those same simple guidelines work for all fish. Who would have thought it?!
Discus that get sick and die don't do it because they a weak species. It happens because of their care in most cases. 99% of sick fish we see on the forum are because somewhere along the line the fish were not kept as they should be. People buy their fish from questionable sources, they follow bad advice, They don't quarantine, they mix their discus with inappropriate species, they feed the wrong foods, they keep them at the wrong temperatures, they crowd the tank , they don't take the time to learn how to spot runts and culls. They over medicate and incorrectly medicate . A huge number of these sick fish cases could have been completely avoided if the keeper actually took the time to research the fish and to use good solid information as put out on SimplyDiscus. I do realize that will rub some people the wrong way, but hey, I think after a few decades of disease board here on Simply I am a fairly good reference on this.
So if anyone want to talk about how weak Discus are, I'll be the first one to have the King's Back here. :) I've made this fish a huge part of my life for a reason, and it ain't because they are weak fish. Discus are an incredibly beautiful and amazing fish, unique in some regards. They are not a fish for everyone. They do require some care, probably less time a day than most people spend on their coffee break at work. But for most people, they can be easily managed and with the right care, they will thrive.
al
Lets talk about that ( TOM) ;)
Are discus a weak fish? My views, and I have kept everything from Marine to africans besides Discus. They are not a weak fish. As a matter of a fact, their biology gives them an edge, Elsewhere on the forum A comment was made about discus being weak because they need their parents? (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?140115-8-day-old-fry!-Some-questions):evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin: Hard to fathom that being a weakness, its an evolutionary survival trait that propelled mammals to the top. But lets look at Discus Fry needing their parents? Why would they? Its not because they are weak its because it increases their odds of surviving. Not only are they able to get a safe food source but the slime coat they eat actually has antibodies in it and is more than just "slime" , Theres a reason why early Discus keepers called it "milk" There is also this notion that fry need to eat from their parents. They don't. Thats why we can artificially raise them. They need a food source small enough to eat, like all baby fish. In the wild any micro-organisms that can be eaten are, including algae and invertebrates, In our tanks we supplement with baby brine.
Discus Evolved in waters thats are in the low 5's in pH , Heckels in the Low 4's. Lets see an african cichlid or even a marine species survive in that and thrive. and yet we expect our discus to thrive in waters that are 6, 7, 8 pH? Seriously! and guess what, they do! Thats not the mark of a weak fish. Its the mark of a highly adaptable strong one.
Lets see , a wild discus is caught miles and miles away, is floated down to an export point, sent to a wholesaler, sent to a retailer, then to the hobbyist. The process may take months. In the process they are exposed to god only knows how many pathogens and varying water qualities. And yet they survive and then often survive for months under all the wrong care before dying and earning the misnomer "weak"
How about this nonsense that they die without an insane amount of water changes...surely a sign of weakness? What fish needs 100% water changes a day? Discus don't need it, 50% a day, they don't need it, 30 % a day, they don't need it. Sure they like it. but people often do water changes with out even thinking about the tanks stocking density, foods fed and filtration. I have seen people with a ton of fish in a small tank.They want every color of the rainbow and only have one tank and they can't spare the time to give an appropriate amount of water changes,Obviously if the tanks over stocked and poorly kept the fish will get sick...any fish will. You do need to do water changes, but how much isn't written in stone, its a matter of science and trial and error for some, for successful hobbyists its often just plain common sense. That goes for every aquatic organism we keep.
I'm going to be flat out honest... Its not the discus that are weak. Its the hobbyists that don't take the time to understand the fish that are weak.Their knowledge of what Discus need is weak, and their commitment to proper care is weak. Every species of fish has certain requirements that need to be met. Proper care needs to be taken when raising any animal. Keep it outside those parameters and they are prone to illness and death. If you leave a dog in a hot car or frigid winter and it dies, is it the fault of the dog? was it weak or was the owners care and commitment to taking care of that poor animal weak?
I'm blown away by the rampant use of hormones, caustic chemicals, prophylactic antibiotics, purely anecdotal and unproven treatments and just total bunk done to Discus. And yet even then this "weak fish" can take months to waste away and die. Weak? Hardly!
Its Funny how with a only a handful of simple guidelines Discus thrive and can live years and years. Yet some folks want to call them weak.
1) good clean water
2) good nutritious food
3) appropriate Temperatures (82-86F for discus)
4) healthy starting stock
Whats even more absurd is those same simple guidelines work for all fish. Who would have thought it?!
Discus that get sick and die don't do it because they a weak species. It happens because of their care in most cases. 99% of sick fish we see on the forum are because somewhere along the line the fish were not kept as they should be. People buy their fish from questionable sources, they follow bad advice, They don't quarantine, they mix their discus with inappropriate species, they feed the wrong foods, they keep them at the wrong temperatures, they crowd the tank , they don't take the time to learn how to spot runts and culls. They over medicate and incorrectly medicate . A huge number of these sick fish cases could have been completely avoided if the keeper actually took the time to research the fish and to use good solid information as put out on SimplyDiscus. I do realize that will rub some people the wrong way, but hey, I think after a few decades of disease board here on Simply I am a fairly good reference on this.
So if anyone want to talk about how weak Discus are, I'll be the first one to have the King's Back here. :) I've made this fish a huge part of my life for a reason, and it ain't because they are weak fish. Discus are an incredibly beautiful and amazing fish, unique in some regards. They are not a fish for everyone. They do require some care, probably less time a day than most people spend on their coffee break at work. But for most people, they can be easily managed and with the right care, they will thrive.
al