Once upon a time.....

[Charlyc11]

It all started….
Once upon a time I decided to get a few Discus from Pompa’s Discus so I chose wisely through videos he sent me of the strains I was interested in.
On one video I saw two very nice Eruptions that seemed to me they were just starting to pair up. (first picks)

137357

Also, I really wanted a Leopard and a Panda. (second picks)

137358

They spent 4 weeks in separate tanks for their QT and towards the end they were all spawning. So, the panda and leopard paired up also. After QT I placed them in my 120-gallon display tank since I did not have time to start with fry due to vacation coming up.
In the large tank the pairs swapped, Panda with Eruption and Eruption with Leopard. Both pairs spawned continually but no eggs survived. Thinking that while in QT the Eruption pair had some swimmers but only a few so they gobbled them up, I knew they were fertile. So, it’s time to bring them back together.

137359

[LizStreithorst]

good looking pair, Chuck. Best of luck on the upcoming spawn and on the contest.

[Charlyc11]

The spawn
So yesterday when I came home from work I received a package with ny magnetic probe holders for my Inkbird controllers (their suction cups suck).

137366

I started to install on my 29 gallon that holds the Eruptions. So I turn off the Inkbird to wipe clean the probes and install the holder. I went to do other chores some tank cleaning and so on. Meanwhile the pair has been in that tank for a week and no interest in the cone. After a few hours I noticed that they were going at it like crazy and noticed that I had forgotten to turn the Inkbirds back on and the temperature went from 82 F to 78 F and triggered that spawn. With the heaters back on by the time they were finished the temperature was back to normal.

137360

When they were done I put them cone in the RO container and added 2 drops of MB (per Liz method) and hung them back in the corner.

137361

But as you can see they were not paying any attention to the cone. So the only solution is to lower the level and put the container in the middle of the tank with some suction cups to hold in place.

137362


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOLTh_cJyUc

Hopefully I did not jinx the spawn and I get some fry. This could be a long journey or a short lived for the first real attempt for this pair.

[Charlyc11]

Thanks Liz you will see a similar method to yours. My water is crappy also. Good luck on your journey.


good looking pair, Chuck. Best of luck on the upcoming spawn and on the contest.

[brewmaster15]

Chuck Glad you entered the contest! Best of luck to you here. Thats a beautiful pair..hope to see alot of fry from them!

If it doesnt work out this spawn...be. patient with them...it can take time.

[Charlyc11]

Thanks Al will do.

[LizStreithorst]

That's a nice big spawn. But don't thank me for the method. Thank Cliff. He told me that I could do it that way. I hope it works for both of us.

[Charlyc11]

I picked up a used 90 gallon acrylic grow out tank cheap but nice. Just incase I need to be ready. This will replace a 75 gallon glass tank that is in bad shape. That one only has some rams that I can move to a smaller tank.

137408

[Charlyc11]

I guess the 90 gallon will be for the next thread.

[jwcarlson]

I have no idea they made magnetic mounts! The suction cups are terrible. I'll have to pick up some magnetic ones, where did you buy them? Also, beautiful fish, Chuck!

[Charlyc11]

I got them at Etsy.com you can buy whole mounting kit or just the probe mounts. They 3D print them and the work great good quality and powerful magnets. Fast shipping.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1487795723/wall-mount-kit-for-inkbird-itc-308-brs? (https://www.etsy.com/listing/1487795723/wall-mount-kit-for-inkbird-itc-308-brs?ref=yr_purchases)



I have no idea they made magnetic mounts! The suction cups are terrible. I'll have to pick up some magnetic ones, where did you buy them? Also, beautiful fish, Chuck!

[Iminit]

Congrats! Good luck with the fry! Nice looking 90. Why didn’t you take the stand? Looked good. Now you just have to get that 220:D.

[Charlyc11]

I have a stand, replacing my 75g no sense getting more equipment. Did I say that? sorry my bad... I will be moving to a new thread the tank purchase so I can stay within the rules of the contest


Congrats! Good luck with the fry! Nice looking 90. Why didn’t you take the stand? Looked good. Now you just have to get that 220:D.

[Bathi]

nice looking pair. best of luck.:)

[CliffsDiscus]

That's a nice big spawn. But don't thank me for the method. Thank Cliff. He told me that I could do it that way. I hope it works for both of us.

Liz, Thanks for your honestly the pitcher method is a big game changer.

Cliff

[LizStreithorst]

Credit where credit is due. I'd have given up if not for you.

[Charlyc11]

I thought that I had read somewhere someone giving this recommendation to Liz. Yes Cliff sorry to leave you out but my memory is not what it use to be. It sure is a game changer.. :idea2:


Liz, Thanks for your honestly the pitcher method is a big game changer.

Cliff

[CliffsDiscus]

Chuck, not to worry we all forget, in fact my doctor wants me to do a MRI on my head.

Cliff

[brewmaster15]

Chuck, not to worry we all forget, in fact my doctor wants me to do a MRI on my head.

Cliff
Cliff, I hope your Doctor is just being overly cautious.

Al

[LizStreithorst]

Hoping with all my heart that the doc is worried about nothing.

[Charlyc11]

This morning still looking good.

137454

[brewmaster15]

Thats awesome Chuck! Looks like a nice spawn!

[Charlyc11]

Thanks Al They might be wigglers very soon today is day 3


Thats awesome Chuck! Looks like a nice spawn!

[Charlyc11]

keeping an eye on them (surveillance capture).

137457

[Charlyc11]

I just got home to wigglers so I added some tank water. I count about 70 ish but lot of white and others that don't seem ready. Still my cout is about 70 + wiggles
Adding the tank water my TDS is 70 and PH 7.03.

137459

[LizStreithorst]

70's a great number. Keep up the good work.

[Charlyc11]

There is about 14 at the bottom of the container also.


70's a great number. Keep up the good work.

[LizStreithorst]

Yeah, some always fall to the bottom. It's normal.

[Charlyc11]

Well let see if they don't eat the wigglers but if they do we will try again. Some might be missing already. :eek:

137461

[Iminit]

You could put a cage around the wigglers. Keep them from eating them.

[Charlyc11]

You could put a cage around the wigglers. Keep them from eating them.

This morning a lot missing. Yes I should have since I have one to late I am at work. I need them to learn.

137463

[brewmaster15]

Chuck they will get it right eventually. If I can offer you a rew suggestions..

When discus parents eat their fry its not because they are hungry :) They have a reason. Sometimes its because are about to spawn again, sometimes its inexperience. ..they just forget they are their fry.

And sometimes Its because they are trying to protect them. Sounds weird but in many cases thats what it is.

Dim the lighting on that tank a tad. Too bright can makes the parents more insecure. Insecure parents may try to move the fry and end up eating them. Cover the front of the tank and don't remove it until the fry attach...this is especially helpful when theres alot of traffic or movement in front of tbe tank.. by covering the tank sides it allows the pair to be feel safe and focus on the fry. You can cut a peep hole to view the pair and fry.

Hth,
Al

[Charlyc11]

Chuck they will get it right eventually. If I can offer you a rew suggestions..

When discus parents eat their fry its not because they are hungry :) They have a reason. Sometimes its because are about to spawn again, sometimes its inexperience. ..they just forget they are their fry.

And sometimes Its because they are trying to protect them. Sounds weird but in many cases thats what it is.

Dim the lighting on that tank a tad. Too bright can makes the parents more insecure. Insecure parents may try to move the fry and end up eating them. Cover the front of the tank and don't remove it until the fry attach...this is especially helpful when theres alot of traffic or movement in front of tbe tank.. by covering the tank sides it allows the pair to be feel safe and focus on the fry. You can cut a peep hole to view the pair and fry.

Hth,
Al

When I get home I will see what happens and cover. I can put the camera in front of the glass. If not try again I know they can do it.

[Charlyc11]

Al
When I get home I will see what happens and cover. I can put the camera in front of the glass. There always another try.
Also I have see one going from the cone to the sponge filter so maybe they moved some.

137466

[LizStreithorst]

Next time, wait until the babies are swimming all over the pitcher before you dump them in rather than putting the cone in when it still has wigglers on it. I know it's hard to make yourself wait (anticipation, and all that) but for me waiting worked best.

[brewmaster15]

Next time, wait until the babies are swimming all over the pitcher before you dump them in rather than putting the cone in when it still has wigglers on it. I know it's hard to make yourself wait (anticipation, and all that) but for me waiting worked best.
True.. its the same when screening them. Just wait until they swim ...

[CliffsDiscus]

Cliff, I hope your Doctor is just being overly cautious.

Al

Al, yes my Doctor is very cautious and now he wants me to see an neurologist.

Thanks, Cliff

[CliffsDiscus]

Hoping with all my heart that the doc is worried about nothing.

Liz, thanks, I just had a heart monitor remover and don't need a pacer for now.

Cliff

[CliffsDiscus]

This morning a lot missing. Yes I should have since I have one to late I am at work. I need them to learn.

137463

Chuck,
There's still a few days before free swimming and are there any left that drop to the bottom of the tank?

[Charlyc11]

Cliff
I need to check when I get home later.

[LizStreithorst]

Al, yes my Doctor is very cautious and now he wants me to see an neurologist.

Thanks, Cliff

please please please keep us up to date.

[CliffsDiscus]

This morning a lot missing. Yes I should have since I have one to late I am at work. I need them to learn.

137463

Chuck,
There's still a few days before free swimming and are there any left that drop to the bottom of the tank?

[holderman19]

That is a really nice pair

[Charlyc11]

There are still a few wiggles that they are caring for, so we will let them practice for the next round or maybe a few will survive.

[Charlyc11]

Ok back to scratch new start, I hope I learned a few things. They cleaned up the cone pretty well.

137501

[Iminit]

Couple of days they’ll do it again. Mine laid eggs today. Took the last fry out cause I’m sure they would have ate it. Will put the cage on tomorrow 137506

[Charlyc11]

Yes they are due to spawn. Nice spaw you have there.

[Charlyc11]

So today is the day they started about a half hour ago.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K6fMNkDQHU

[Charlyc11]

Well that was quick here they are in RODI with 2 drops of MB.

137592

137593

[brewmaster15]

Wow! Thats a seriously nice spawn! Good luck Chuck!

Al

[Charlyc11]

Thanks Al
I will do what Liz recommended. My rams had a nice spawn also I am in the middle of moving the eggs and the pair to it's own cube. Gold and black spawn.


Wow! Thats a seriously nice spawn! Good luck Chuck!

Al

[Charlyc11]

Eye on the prize.

137594

137600

[Iminit]

Congrats and again they are some nice looking discus!!

[Charlyc11]

24 hours later still lookin OK.

137658

[Iminit]

Like!!

[Charlyc11]

Morning surveillance check.
Eggs still doing OK as of this morning, mom and dad are still interested.

137661

[Charlyc11]

We got wigglers this morning.

137668

[Charlyc11]

Morning surveillance check.
They are both really exited with wigglers in sight.

137669

[Second Hand Pat]

Looks like all is going really well here Chuck :D Super nice pair and fishroom. Looking forward to seeing the wigglers on the backs of the parents :D
Pat

[Charlyc11]

Thanks Pat. Just waiting for them to be swimmers and they can start caring for them.

[LizStreithorst]

The wait is hard, isn't it? And the closer the time comes, the harder it is to wait.

[Charlyc11]

More babies at the bottom of the container I just got to get them.

137671

[Charlyc11]

They mostly all fell off the cone maybe the air was a little high, but only a few left on it so with a pipet I blew them gently off. I roughly counted wigglers in the 70's, a lot of the
eggs are not fertilized and I guess that is because the are beginners. All in all what I got is great let's see how they do after they are swimmers.
I did lower the air

137672

[CliffsDiscus]

Free swimming should be on Saturday.

Cliff

[Charlyc11]

Here is another shot from above.

137678

[jwcarlson]

Good luck, Chuck!

[Iminit]

Wow that’s a lot of wigglers!! Good luck! Time to start getting ready those next stage tanks :).

[Charlyc11]

How many can you count on the picture above?

[Iminit]

Just rounding out I’d say easy 70. Lol me I’m lucky if I get 20!! Really have no clue what I’d do with 70!! My last group produced 1 :). Got it in my fry tank. Got eggs again now on day three. But I added the cage last night and half are white this morn. Not fungus just white. Wondering if it has something to do with the cage?

[Charlyc11]

Not fertilized calcified, I had 2/3 of that spawn white. I count 105 wigglers but who's counting.


Just rounding out I’d say easy 70. Lol me I’m lucky if I get 20!! Really have no clue what I’d do with 70!! My last group produced 1 :). Got it in my fry tank. Got eggs again now on day three. But I added the cage last night and half are white this morn. Not fungus just white. Wondering if it has something to do with the cage?

[Charlyc11]

Morning Surveillance check. Still interested.

137689

[Charlyc11]

Cliff
When you use the pitcher you release as swimmers also?



Free swimming should be on Saturday.

Cliff

[CliffsDiscus]

Cliff
When you use the pitcher you release as swimmers also?

Yes, or artificially raised. They should be ready to feed off the parent's slime or on egg yolk.

[Charlyc11]

I guess I should give them a chance to meet their parents and if it doesn't work out I can artificially feed any left or next batch.


Yes, or artificially raised. They should be ready to feed off the parent's slime or on egg yolk.

[Charlyc11]

I had been adding tank water a little at a time since they started as wiggles and last night I did a water change. I might do another 30% water change later.

[Charlyc11]

Who know how many will survive before they get in with their parents. Just like rams any bit of dirt or fuzzies gets stuck to them and suffocate. Just cleaned some debris from the container that was getting stuck to them.



Just rounding out I’d say easy 70. Lol me I’m lucky if I get 20!! Really have no clue what I’d do with 70!! My last group produced 1 :). Got it in my fry tank. Got eggs again now on day three. But I added the cage last night and half are white this morn. Not fungus just white. Wondering if it has something to do with the cage?

[Charlyc11]

UPDATE

A good amount still doing ok and some are not moving so I lowered the level so the parents can watch them better and get use to seeing them when they start to swim free.

137707

137708

[Charlyc11]

Some are swimming today but most at the bottom. Some don't look like they are moving but we will find out by tomorrow they might be all swimming or not.

137711

[CliffsDiscus]

Some are swimming today but most at the bottom. Some don't look like they are moving but we will find out by tomorrow they might be all swimming or not.

137711

Chuck, the batch should be very active.

Cliff

[Charlyc11]

Today is a restart for the pair the batch did not survive. Taking a different rout with soft water RO with a little KH a TDS 80 or less. They seen to want to try again. I need to make it as easy as possible with my injured left hand.

137716

[LizStreithorst]

Well, that's a shame. Still, best of luck with the batch coming soon.

[Charlyc11]

Surveillance check video to come soon.

137746

[Charlyc11]

They got it going.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elRupSylfz0

137747

[Charlyc11]

Morning Surveillance check. They are both fanning the eggs.

137750

[Second Hand Pat]

Super nice pair Chuck and a great looking spawn :D Crossing fingers for you!
Pat

[Charlyc11]

Thanks Pat just trying different ways see if they are successful.


Super nice pair Chuck and a great looking spawn :D Crossing fingers for you!
Pat

[Charlyc11]

This morning the bottom tank on the rack with the other pair the heater was on to long (probably not set high enough) so the alarm went off on the InkBird. I guess they got spooked and ate all the eggs. Let's try again, what is next with my luck lately? At least the heater kept the temp at 82 F so no harm came to the pair in the bottom tank.

[LizStreithorst]

This morning the bottom tank on the rack with the other pair the heater was on to long (probably not set high enough) so the alarm went off on the InkBird. I guess they got spooked and ate all the eggs. Let's try again, what is next with my luck lately? At least the heater kept the temp at 82 F so no harm came to the pair in the bottom tank.

What a shame, but all is not lost. You have lots of time left. I'd say "Break a leg" rather than "Better luck next time", but the way things have been going with your life, I don't dare.

[Charlyc11]

Yes no leg breaking, I will keep on trying maybe the other pair might surprise me just not in the contest.



What a shame, but all is not lost. You have lots of time left. I'd say "Break a leg" rather than "Better luck next time", but the way things have been going with your life, I don't dare.

[Charlyc11]

Afternoon surveillance check.

137849

[Charlyc11]

Afternoon surveillance check.

137927

[Charlyc11]

So today they decided to spawn after a small break. Let's try this again.

137940

137941


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn13jzi1Pp0

[LizStreithorst]

What did you add to your water this time?

[Charlyc11]

Just 3 drops of MB, I got a lot of white fuzz without it. It's now a bigger vase with just a little air circulation as soon as they develop I think I am going to put them back in with a cage. Also a different cone.
The tank water is RO with a little KH and GH 60 PPM TDS.

[Iminit]

Good luck this time!!

[Charlyc11]

Morning surveillance check and a snap shot I took before I left the house.

137947

137948

[jwcarlson]

Looking good, Chuck! Everytime I check this thread I'm not sure if you have a mirror or a near infinite fish room. :D

[Charlyc11]

Jacob
I guess the prior owner liked to dance in front of a mirror. It's an 8' x 4' mirror behind the tanks.


Looking good, Chuck! Everytime I check this thread I'm not sure if you have a mirror or a near infinite fish room. :D

[Charlyc11]

Most of the eggs turned white only 20 or less wiggling. Parents or the water?

[brewmaster15]

Tough call on the contest rules Chuck.. I think you should keep trying with contest pair and keep this group of fry out. . You can still link to this batch as a reference if the fostering works... but it probably shouldnt be your contest entry.
Al

[Charlyc11]

That is the contest pair and they would be busy for a while as they foster and if they are successful.


Tough call on the contest rules Chuck.. I think you should keep trying with contest pair and keep this group of fry out. . You can still link to this batch as a reference if the fostering works... but it probably shouldnt be your contest entry.
Al

[brewmaster15]

Ah.. I misunderstood. I don't see a problem then.

[Charlyc11]

Al I will keep simple and fare the Eruption pair that I started the contest will be busy fostering for the Panda and Leopard pair free swimmers so they will be out of the contest for now. If they spawn before the contest is over I will continue with the thread.

[Charlyc11]

Making a come back. One last try at fatherhood. Pops is losing some color on his forehead going white slowly.

138435

138436

[Charlyc11]

I think that white area on the forhead hi must have banged himself.

138462

138463

[Charlyc11]

This Mornings wigglers.

138492

[AquaticNerd]

That's a massive spawn, congratz!

[Iminit]

That’s a lot of wigglers!

[brewmaster15]

Awesome!! Best of luck on this one Chuck!

al

[Discus Fever]

Very nice that's a great spawn, keep us posted on those.

[Charlyc11]

Thanks you'll, I haven't had much luck so far but I am still trying.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks you'll, I haven't had much luck so far but I am still trying.

If it was easy discus would be cheap.:)

[Charlyc11]

I was brave and removed the cage since they were taking care of a few that fell off the cone.

138532

Here is the cone yesterday.

138535

138533

Today they cleaned up the cone and lined them up.

138534

So far so good.

[jwcarlson]

Fingers crossed that your luck continues, Chuck! Awesome little pile of tails!

[Iminit]

Yes finger crossed here too!

[Charlyc11]

I will try to keep fresh BB so I pulled out my tray hatchery.

138544

[Discus Fever]

Congrats seems like they will take care of them, once they attach to the parents you should breathe a little easier. LOL

[Charlyc11]

Congrats seems like they will take care of them, once they attach to the parents you should breathe a little easier. LOL

Today they got spooked a raced from one end to the other in the tank and they dislodged a lot of the fry from the cone. They slowly gathering them as far as I can see with the surveillance camera.
I hope they got them all back on the cone once I get home. By tomorrow they should start free swimming.

138554

[Charlyc11]

Well as the contest is closing they decided to eat all the rening fry and spawn on the heater. So after having some nice hard boiled eggs they cleaned up nicely.

[Charlyc11]

So last night they decided to give me a new spawn so they can give it another try outside the contest.

138801

138802

[LizStreithorst]

Don't you just know that you'll get a tank full of fry this time? At least with your prize, you'll have no problem feeding them.

[Charlyc11]

Well I just hope so I have a tank ready for them when they need it. I will be adding some fish to keep it going instead of ammonia. I just finished the new stand and sump.

138803

[Charlyc11]

I was going to either get some Juveniles to fill the tank or wait for a good spawn. I guess we will see what happens.

[LizStreithorst]

I know you'd rather make your own babies. You will. You almost did. Just keep trying. When I was having a hard time breeding my pairs I knew that if I gave up, it would never happen.

[Charlyc11]

This mornings surveillance shot. I expect lots wigglers this afternoon I hope I don't jinx it. These two were very good with wigglers so they might go in the tank today with the parents but with the cage for a bit. I had noticed with the gray cone it was very slimy the last time so I been wiping this one clean every day before they spawned.

138832

This was from last night.

138833

[For100]

This mornings surveillance shot. I expect lots wigglers this afternoon I hope I don't jinx it. These two were very good with wigglers so they might go in the tank today with the parents but with the cage for a bit. I had noticed with the gray cone it was very slimy the last time so I been wiping this one clean every day before they spawned.

138832

This was from last night.

138833


Love this picture! Amazing to see fertilized eggs about to hatch, good luck.

[Iminit]

Hey Chuck good luck with this batch. Just looking at your tank a problem may be the lighting. I’d dim that down to 20-30%. The one time mine worked out they had just turned to wigglers and I had to run out to the mil. Was away for about 4 days. No movement around tank and lights dim I came home to swimmers. 2 more times they let some swim for a few days and both those times I ignored the tank. Not long enough cause they did eat the swimmers. Even now I just raised the lighting to 70% for about 4 hours in the middle of the day. They’d been at 30% for months. Mon I adjusted the light to ramp it up to 70% over the course of the day.

[Charlyc11]

Hey Chuck good luck with this batch. Just looking at your tank a problem may be the lighting. I’d dim that down to 20-30%. The one time mine worked out they had just turned to wigglers and I had to run out to the mil. Was away for about 4 days. No movement around tank and lights dim I came home to swimmers. 2 more times they let some swim for a few days and both those times I ignored the tank. Not long enough cause they did eat the swimmers. Even now I just raised the lighting to 70% for about 4 hours in the middle of the day. They’d been at 30% for months. Mon I adjusted the light to ramp it up to 70% over the course of the day.

I just recently adjusted a little higher than it was since I did some light rearranging. They eat the fry due to a new spawn but when they had the fosters they did ok. We will see once they go in the tank with the parents their will be some lighting 24 hours. I might go back to the other light this one is on automatic daylight and night mode.

[Charlyc11]

Ok did a lighting change and water change. Now they are with the parents and the cone needs some cleanup lot's of white fuzz.

138862

[LizStreithorst]

I wouldn't mess with the fuzz. I've never seen it doing any harm.

[Charlyc11]

They will take care of it.



I wouldn't mess with the fuzz. I've never seen it doing any harm.

[jwcarlson]

Good luck, Chuck! Hope they take. :) The parents are beautiful!

[Charlyc11]

So far so good here is a surveillance shot as of today. They cleaned the cone a little bit and rearranged some of the wigglers.

138863

[Charlyc11]

I did a water change and lowered the level so it can stay that way until the are free swimmers and attached to the parents.

138867

[LizStreithorst]

Now, that is a beautiful sight.

[danotaylor]

Beautiful pair Charly. What strain are they? All the best mate!!

[Charlyc11]

Eruption


Beautiful pair Charly. What strain are they? All the best mate!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i05I4ijnWbU

[Charlyc11]

As far as I can see not many left this morning. Hope these survive, they are all swimmers so I took the cone and sponge filters away so the concentrate on the parents.

[Charlyc11]

I had a great talk with Al and I am applying some of his suggestions. I blocked the view to the 125 with some cling film. Next will be a curtain next time they have wiggles.

138888

[Charlyc11]

Morning snapshot surveillance cameras.

138969

[danotaylor]

Cool. Does the Eruption pair have eggs again mate?

[Charlyc11]

Cool. Does the Eruption pair have eggs again mate?

Yes as you can see in the picture their are lots of wigglers. This time I am blocking the view from other tanks and traffic. Later I will be dropping the level and turn off the HOB.

138987

138988

Wigglers!!

138989

[danotaylor]

Awesome mate. I thought come looked dark but I couldn’t zoom enough to make it clear. All the best with the spawn! :drummer: :thumbsup:

[Iminit]

Good luck!!!!

[Charlyc11]

Good luck!!!!

No matter what I do there only 4 or 5 left with the parents.

[LizStreithorst]

Oh hell. Have you asked Al what he would suggest he would do if he had 0 kH? That pair you have is lovely. Since Brian is having no luck with his best pair, I was hoping to buy some offspring from your pair. A buddy of mine here has also mentioned that he would like some kids from you.

[brewmaster15]

Yes as you can see in the picture their are lots of wigglers. This time I am blocking the view from other tanks and traffic. Later I will be dropping the level and turn off the HOB.

138987

138988

Wigglers!!

138989

Chuck have you tried screening the eggs with mesh?

[Charlyc11]

Usualy cage them for a wile untill they have an interes. They keep the so nice until they don't. They may become fosters again the other pair spawned in the community tank so I have them on RO for now. I am curious to see if they have deformities again.

[brewmaster15]

Chuck I would leave the cage on until the fry go freeswimming .. you gain nothing by removing it before they go free swimming and risk them getting eaten..

Sometimes the less you mess with eggs and fry .. the better. Next time they spawn ..screen the eggs and leave the pair alone. :)

[Charlyc11]

That is good question since I been adding some seachem alkaline buffer ( maybe I should switch to just baking soda). I don't add much just to raise to barely a 2 KH and my PH stays stable enough. My 125 and 90 have been stable at PH 7.3 7.4 but I have a bag of coral in the sump. The 29 with the pair since I change the water every day it's staying around the same maybe a little higher since after aging i been getting 7.3 - 7.5. My TDS well water is around 190 - 200 with a KH 0 GH 5 - 6. PH before aging about 5 - 5.5. I have to make Al spill all his secrets he also has well water.


Oh hell. Have you asked Al what he would suggest he would do if he had 0 kH? That pair you have is lovely.

[brewmaster15]

That is good question since I been adding some seachem alkaline buffer ( maybe I should switch to just baking soda). I don't add much just to raise to barely a 2 KH and my PH stays stable enough. My 125 and 90 have been stable at PH 7.3 7.4 but I have a bag of coral in the sump. The 29 with the pair since I change the water every day it's staying around the same maybe a little higher since after aging i been getting 7.3 - 7.5. My TDS well water is around 190 - 200 with a KH 0 GH 5 - 6. PH before aging about 5 - 5.5. I have to make Al spill all his secrets he also has well water.
Chuck your water is about the same as mine in the well.


So lets start from the beginning.. Please post exactly what you do for the water you use in your breeders tank. Include water change amount and frequency. Both when theres no eggs and when there are eggs. I know you probably posted this elsewhere in bits and pieces. But lets put it all together.

Al

[Charlyc11]

Water parameters 50% well 50% RO 8 grams of Seachem Alkaline buffer age min 24 hrs. agitation and air stone to a PH of 7.3 - 7.5. Heated to 84 F (after it gets pumped to my tanks the temperature drops about 1-2 degrees ).

The breeder tank (29 gallon) before eggs I do a daily 50% water water change and continue after the eggs are removed.
When they spawn I remove the Eggs and place them in a container @ 82 F with RO water TDS about 6 - 10 and 3 drops of MB until wigglers. I do a 20% RO water change on the container with the eggs daily I don't do a lager water change due to the location of the eggs on the cone.
Once they are close to wigglers I start mixing some tank water. At wiggler stage I remove the cone from the container and put it in the tank with the cage around it for a few hrs and then remove the cage.I wait another 24 hrs and lower the water level and stop the water changes. This time I also stopped feeding at this point.

Disclaimer : I am an old man and all this information is from the top of my head so any mistakes noted I claim the 5th

139024

[brewmaster15]

Chuck I think you are hurting yourself here by making it far more complicated than it has to be. Theres really no need for half of what you are doing... plus..


At wiggler stage I remove the cone from the container and put it in the tank with the cage around it for a few hrs and then remove the cage.

Is concerning. The fry are attached to the cone by adhesive glands on their foreheads. Removing the fry as wigglers like that maybe weakening the glands prematurely and damaging the fry delicate skeleton.. could explain defects.

Next spawn lets make it simple. Water in the breeder tank using ro water.. let the pair lay eggs. Screen eggs and do not mess with the pair or tank until the eggs hatch and free swimmers attach. You can do small water changes to remove crude while eggs.. feed adults 1 small meal per day while on eggs.. do not bother feeding once eggs hatch until.they attach. Once wigglers go free swimming and attach remove screen and cone and start changing over to tap water.


You can lower the water level to the back of the discus to help attachment and remove the sponges (store in a bag) for a few hours.

Thats really it in a nutshell. KISS. Keep.it simple


What I described is what I do here to a T.
If possible cover the front of the tank to prevent you from disturbing the pair.. some pairs dont need this but it wont hurt.

[Charlyc11]

Water in the breeder tank using ro water.
Plain RO no buffers just aged?

[brewmaster15]

Plain RO no buffers just aged?

I use a little of my tap to add in trace minerals.. My mix here is usually 80-90% RO, 10-20 % Tap. Try that and see what your TDS is.. I'd be really surprised if your hatch rates were not as good as with your straight RO. You obviously have a fertile pair.

al

[Charlyc11]

I will try that. But remember I have no KH in my tap just GH.

[brewmaster15]

I will try that. But remember I have no KH in my tap just GH.

Your waterchanges on the pair will keep the pH stable and if it drifts down, it doesn't matter. If you slack on water changes kH is critical as pH will crash, but pH drifting down and crashing are two different things. In your grow out tanks where there is alot of biofiltration going on, KH can be real important. The week or so from egg to free swimming really should not matter if you minimize the feeding of the pair. If you want to add some buffer to bring the kH up a a few degrees, It should be fine. The point here is to start at the basics and only do what you need to do to get a good hatch and attach. Everyone's water is different so you start at the basics first.

al

[danotaylor]

This is a super interesting sequence of posts guys. Rooting for you Charly. I said it before and will say it again in agreement w Liz, beautiful pair. Really hope you crack the code on raising their young! Whoop :thumbsup:

[Charlyc11]

I do appreciate the advice and encouragement and this is the direction I am heeding.:fish:

[Charlyc11]

Your waterchanges on the pair will keep the pH stable and if it drifts down, it doesn't matter. If you slack on water changes kH is critical as pH will crash, but pH drifting down and crashing are two different things. In your grow out tanks where there is alot of biofiltration going on, KH can be real important. The week or so from egg to free swimming really should not matter if you minimize the feeding of the pair. If you want to add some buffer to bring the kH up a a few degrees, It should be fine. The point here is to start at the basics and only do what you need to do to get a good hatch and attach. Everyone's water is different so you start at the basics first.

al

Ok Al filled one 55 gallon barrel with 20% tap and 80% RO. These are the readings as of 5:00 AM.
TDS = 40
PH = 6.9

I will be doing a water change this afternoon.

[brewmaster15]

Ok Al filled one 55 gallon barrel with 20% tap and 80% RO. These are the readings as of 5:00 AM.
TDS = 40
PH = 6.9

I will be doing a water change this afternoon.

That should be fine Chuck. If the pH drifts down too much just add a little buffer or a tiny amount of sodium Bicarb.,If stays in the 6's , thats great,

al

[Charlyc11]

Ok today was the day so here we go again.

TDS 50 ppm
PH 6.8
Temperature 83F

139050

[LizStreithorst]

Tell them that Mama Bear is getting tired of waiting. ;)

[Charlyc11]

Aren't we all



Tell them that Mama Bear is getting tired of waiting. ;)

He gets spooked very easily.

[brewmaster15]

Awesome... now cover the front and leave them alone.:)

If this fails you may have to box them up and send them to me for extended counseling. :)

[Charlyc11]

This morning snapshot. So no feeding and water changes until the atach? Is it ok to do water changes for the next 2 days until they are almost wigglers.

139058

[brewmaster15]

While they are eggs you can feed the pair lightly.. 1 meal a day is fine. You can also do small water changes to remove crude. Once wigglers don't feed or water change...don't mess with,

al

Ps.. turn the camera off and cover the tank.:) doing that serves 2 purposes... 1) it boosts their sense of security and lets them focus on the eggs and 2) it reminds you to leave them alone! :)

[Charlyc11]

I hope the stripes don't bother them. When I stop feeding at wiggles the HOB will com out.

139060

[Charlyc11]

Well I thought the male looked a little distracted but I wasn't paying much attention to them. Back to square one.

139068

[brewmaster15]

yep..I think he was too.. It happens. no worries Chuck.

al

[Second Hand Pat]

Sounds like the male is still developing his mojo and needs a little maturing. He will get there Chuck :)
Pat

[Charlyc11]

He has never failed first time usually I am the one failing them, I think he got spooked or wan't in the mood. I keep seeing him pecking at food while the female was doing her job.

[Charlyc11]

Here we go again. as of yesterday and so far all is good.

139124

[brewmaster15]

Fingers and toes crossed Chuck.

Al

[Charlyc11]

Fingers and toes crossed Chuck.

Al

The male did his job this time. I have a few batches from my other pair that spawned in the community tank and all hatched in the same water in a container. I am raising them artificially, two batches 5 days apart and I will post if I have good results.

[Charlyc11]

No succes in both fronts so the Eruptions are taking a break had to move back to community tank.