Brew's old guy tank

[brewmaster15]

Okay I decided on my 3rd entry. This one will document My attempts to breed a 7 year old home bred male Blue snakeskin. I have posted pics before of him. For his age he is still a real good looking discus. As mentioned in my other contest entry my breeders all got old and the females don't lay any more. However the males still look and act like they want to spawn so I bought a few females from Chicago Discus to tryand breed my males and carry on the lines...


In this cross its my 7 year old male being bred to a new blue snakeskin female... what will happen ? Is he still fertile? I think he is. Lets find out.:)

As in my other thread.. the goal is to breed this old male and I will swap out females as often as needed to do this.


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[Discus Fever]

Very nice Al, I hope they spawn for you and the male is still fertile.

[jimmyjoe]

Good luck Al, they both are very nice looking Blues.

[mleibowi]

Al what size is your breeding tank? Are you using RODI? Also what size is your hospital tank? I have 40 breeders and a 29 long. I made my 40g breeder my hospital/QT tank. Thanks

[brewmaster15]

Very nice Al, I hope they spawn for you and the male is still fertile.

Thanks Scott.. I hope so too. .. if not I will be hounding Liz for fry.:)

[brewmaster15]

Good luck Al, they both are very nice looking Blues.

Thanks Jim! I think so too. Should make some nice fry if he still can.

[brewmaster15]

Al what size is your breeding tank? Are you using RODI? Also what size is your hospital tank? I have 40 breeders and a 29 long. I made my 40g breeder my hospital/QT tank. Thanks
Hi Mike. Most of my breeders are 29 gal tanks though I also have some 55 gal tanks split in half and a few 40 gal breeders. I dont have a dedicated hospital tank but have more than enough tanks so that of I ever needed one I can easily set one up. For the average hobbyist thats frequently geeing new stock or running into health issues often usually a 29 -40 gal tank is fine for a hospital and/or quarantine tank.

[brewmaster15]

Video...

Old Discus with High hopes 11-13-23


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpeiRvvCUzY

[AquaticNerd]

Al - looks like your male knows what to do, putting on the moves and doing the shimmy. Doesn't look like the new female is very interested. Any breeding behavior from her that wasn't caputred in video?

[brewmaster15]

Jake she hasnt done the shimmy and shake or given much indication of breeding yet except they are doing alot of bowing so she is acknowledging him. There has also been no aggression. She has really only been alone with him a day... and moved to a new tank. I have a pretty good feeling for this pair.

[AquaticNerd]

Sounds like it could be a match of fate! Toes crosses that she shows some interest in breeding. :D

[Second Hand Pat]

She is just making him for work it lol and her tail is a little dark :D Only a matter of time :D

Gorgeous pair Al!

Pat

[LizStreithorst]

I love that come hither moment by the cone. They're in love for sure.

[jwcarlson]

Looking good, Al! I wish mine would start doing something more interesting even if I don't want to try to breed them, it's at least interesting behavior. :D

[LizStreithorst]

Is anything going on with these two yet, Al?

[brewmaster15]

Just alot of staring at the cone Liz :)

[LizStreithorst]

Sounds like the way it had been here before my luck changed.

[brewmaster15]

Maybe just maybe... :)

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https://youtu.be/5VxoaVn75Og?si=D1pHL44G-suNYr7V



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VxoaVn75Og?

[Second Hand Pat]

Body parts crossed :D
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Fingers Crossed.

[brewmaster15]

Someone was busy last night:)

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Waters 75 ppm and these two seem to be doing a good job.. Ive covered the tank sides so they can focus on the eggs .... Im tempted to screen them just in case as I really want to see if this 7 year old male is still fertile.

[jwcarlson]

Awesome, Al! Good luck!

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Jacob! Fingers crossed. I decided to screen the eggs although I got the impression this pair would have been fine.

al

[Second Hand Pat]

Excited for you Al :D
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Wonderful news. I've been pulling for the old guy.

[Discus Fever]

Good luck AL hopefully the old guy pulls through for you.

[Adamski77]

Fingers crossed…

[LizStreithorst]

He was so hot to get it on from when Al first gave him his new lady friend, that I'm certain he has the right stuff.

[brewmaster15]

Well so far so good.. theres alot of eggs that could be viable.. time will tell.

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[AquaticNerd]

Squealed with joy when I saw that cone covered in eggs. Fingers crossed!

[Charlyc11]

Nice going Al lot's of good ones so far.

[brewmaster15]

HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!

The old boy still is fertile after 7 years! And the pair is intently guarding the wigglers... absolutely zero signs of in fighting .. I have a real good feeling on this. Hopefully once they go freeswimming the pair will parent well

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Not too shabby.. about 50% hatchrate.. maybe 50 fry. First spawn for this pair.. I am very Happy. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Super happy for you Al and this pair. Hope the free swimming and attachment goes well :D
Pat

[Red Eye.]

What water para,s you drop too....and do you add any chemicals to help the eggs.

[AquaticNerd]

Happy happy happy!

Like like like!!! :D

[brewmaster15]

What water para,s you drop too....and do you add any chemicals to help the eggs.

Im using a Ro water/ tap water( sourced from my well) mix here. Water was 75 ppm tds.. pH I dont usually measure but guessing low 7s. I did nothing to treat the eggs here though I often will use some methylene blue...I did not here.

Al

[LizStreithorst]

I never doubted the old guy. Congratulations, Al.

[Jandiscus]

Very cool to see this.

[brewmaster15]

The fry have gone free swimming and theres no sign of parents eating them ... they are doing what they are supposed to. Dropped the water down to the parents back and hoping for the best. By the time they went swimming the batch shrunk abit so Im not really sure how far this will go. I think it was a good first run but It probably will not be a total success..more like a stepping stone.

If it was easy it would be boring.

[Second Hand Pat]

This is still a nice first step Al whether or not if you have fry from this batch. Hopefully just gets better from here :D
Pat

[brewmaster15]

I agree Pat. I am really happy by the pair bond here and honestly the fact that such an old discus is still able to fertilize eggs is an amazing and interesting fact.

We know that most domestic pairs fade out in 2-3 years of breeding. But we also know that males tend to mature slower. Often a good hatchery strategy is to pair up older males with young females. I think my experience here with this pair has added quite a bit to our knowledge base.

It makes sense really. In the animal world its very common that the older,stronger, more fit male is the one to breed... up to the point they are dethroned.

Either way i hope some attach. If they do and Its a small number the pair will probably lay again soon. I may also intervene and remove the fry to raise and encourage the pair to try again.

[LizStreithorst]

We're used to the males to be young and stupid. This time it's likely the female who's young and stupid. She'll get it right with time.

[brewmaster15]

So. .. today started lack luster at best.. the fry were all over the place. The male had them kind of coraled in the corner. I did not think they would attach before they used up their yolk sacs .. i have a bunch of fry foods here for various critters so I decided to try adding some to the water..maybe buy more time. I added some Sera Micron fry food which by the color and label is largely spirullina.

No idea if it really helped but.. fry are attached now. .. Not a huge bunch but if they make it the night I will be happy...pics when I can safely take some.

[brewmaster15]

Update on this spawn.

So last night must have been a tough one. The male really tore up her fins. Today the pair seems ok. The fry are attached but not as good as they should. The male is super aggressive as well. If I go near the tank he charges and actually hits the glass. I think he is frustrated lol.

No idea where this will go but I probably will put a wire divider in so she can heal.

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This proving more challenging than a simple "is he fertile still" but I guess thats the challenge of breeding discus.

Sometimes first spawns go great.. other times not so much!

[Second Hand Pat]

Oh boy Al, a hair pulling exercise. Do you think mom was perhaps eating the fry and dad took exception?
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Either that or she was not tending them... he was actively pursuing them.. she basically ignored them. Like Liz said I think she just is inexperienced.

I will watch closely today but the two seem to be ok now.

[jawfish]

Nice to see that thr old guy is still fertile. Now you know it's only a matter of time before you have your hands full of fry. This is a really cool project to follow.

Cheers
Fred.

[LizStreithorst]

This is fun to follow for me, too. I have a soft spot for old fish who kick butt despite their age.

[mleibowi]

very nice looking Al

[brewmaster15]

Thanks guys. So I just pulled the plug on this batch of fry. I took out about 20 and have them in a shoe box with sponge filter.

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They never really attached... kind of just swam around. Probably only lived this long because I fed them a fry powder. Not sure what I will do with them. I had a decent batch of ram fry going that I was going to try and foster them to just for the heck of it but the rams decided to eat the fry... ruining a perfectly good experiment.

As for the old guy and young lady.. wiped tank, full water change and a partition for a few days.. hopefully round 2 wont be long to come.

[LizStreithorst]

You sound disappointed, but you shouldn't be. Look at all I went through to get viable eggs. And then what I went through to get my best pair to actually raise their kids like they'd been doing it forever.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Liz. A bit disappointed Maybe.. I was hoping for a good spawn.. not worrying though. I KNOW it will work out soon.

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If he has his way it would be today.lol

[jwcarlson]

How long (typically) before discus fry can reliably take baby brine?
I think it's neat that you have at least some fry that you can attempt to raise up! Overall it's been a success.

[brewmaster15]

How long (typically) before discus fry can reliably take baby brine?
I think it's neat that you have at least some fry that you can attempt to raise up! Overall it's been a success.
Technically they can usually take bbs as soon as they go free swimming but its something done best in a small tank or container. I usually wait a few days for them to really attach and trigger slime production.

I always have some frozen(by me) bbs in the freezer... so I just added some to the shoe box... if they survive a day like this I will start hatching brine and give it a go with them.

[jwcarlson]

Thanks, Al, I'm trying to gauge how much of a pain they would be to feed compared to other fry.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks, Al, I'm trying to gauge how much of a pain they would be to feed compared to other fry.
Its not bad when they are on their parents. When not its really much like any other fry .. multiple feedings and lots of fresh water..
Using commercial fry starters with discus fry gives much more poor results than having them on live brine shrimp for a few weeks min ... plus the live bbs doesnt foul the water as fast if you feed an appropriate amount. I dont want to say live bbs is a must but its definitely very very very beneficial to good strong fry development.

[jwcarlson]

I only use fry powder for stuff that can't eat BBS (like CPDs). I hate the fry powder stage. It fouls the water instantly if seems. And CPDs seem to need it forever. I keep putting a few BBS in with this batch of CPDs and they attack but they aren't even big enough to get a swimmerette off of them. Haha

[brewmaster15]

Which fry powder do you use Jacob? I agree on the mess. I need to get some freeze dried rotifers... you might want to look into them.

Al

[jwcarlson]

Sera Micron, and I have New Life Spectrum as well, but haven't used it on this batch of CPDs as they seem to have taken to the micron well. I think it is mostly mental. Where I want to blast them with food,but that's not the right move with fry powder. It's more about enough calories to grow a tiny bit until they get big enough for BBS. I have a batch of San Francisco strain BBS in a hatcher that should be ready by morning for at least the first little hatch. If I can get them to even eat some body parts off of those I will be elated. They have been swimming around with regular BBS in their mouths for two days, but they just can't quite get a bite haha
I also have golden pearls of various sizes,but not sure if they're the "good ones". I am also putting in a bit from my paramecium cultures twice a day, but it's exceeding difficult to see if they're eating amoebas!

[brewmaster15]

Well today was a bit surprising.. my little shoe box of fry is still alive. I have dropped in a small chunk of frozen baby brine shrimp a few times now and have watched them eating. No clue how it will end but if they have the will to live I will give them a chance.

Crummy pics through a fishtank and plastic..


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[LizStreithorst]

Well done!!!!

[fljones3]

I am cheering them on!

[jwcarlson]

Get the hatcher bubbling, Al!

[ravvlet]

Rooting for these little guys!

[Kingdom Come Discus]

The thing that strikes me the hardest here is the fact that Al has 7 year old discus and probably some that are older. Could we start a thread to find the oldest discus hobbyist have raised? I bet Liz, John , Larry, Pat and others are way past my record of 1 day!

[LizStreithorst]

Kraig, I love it when you pop in out of nowhere.

I'm not trying to avoid the question but there are several things that I'm incapable of doing. One of those things is anything having a number in the answer. How old has a number in the answer.

I hope that you and your family have a lovely Christmas.

[brewmaster15]

Morning all. Thought I would post an update here. The small group of fry did not make it.. they died off 1 at a time . I thought that might happen so not surprised.

As for the pair.. they laid eggs again last week and as of early this week there were wigglers on the cone. I screened the cone and let them be. We had a family trip scheduled for a few days this week so I was on pins and needles until we came home. Got home yesterday and the fry had left the cone. A few attached and alot more were up in the corner or on the sponges. I carefully dropped the water level to the parents backs and pulled the sponges. Within a few hours all the fry had attached so I replaced the sponges.

Today all looks well so far.:)

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[brewmaster15]

I spoke a tad too soon. If you remember the last spawn the male got aggressive to the female . He is at it again. At this point I am leaning towards to removing the female and putting her with my wild cross Male. Leaving the fry with this male to raise should work out ok.

al

[LizStreithorst]

Fish are supposed to be calming. At times like those little is more stressful. Will the babies attach? Oh no, the babies are in the middle of a war! Removing the ladyfish usually solves the problem.

[brewmaster15]

So far the old guy is single parenting well.

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Good start to the new year.

Al

[brewmaster15]

Its kind of interesting.. if I shut the light for a minute they all go swimming over to the Dad and stay on his side..


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turn the light on and they get a little brave swimming.

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[brewmaster15]

Water change time...

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[Second Hand Pat]

Al, your "old" guy is doing a pretty darn good job and he is a pretty darn good looking fish :D Just goes to show to never "down play" the old guy!
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Pat! I agree! He is being a great dad. Also agree hes a pretty darn good looking fish for his age...kinda of a Sean Connery of the discus world.:)
... agent "00Discus"
al

[For100]

Thanks Pat! I agree! He is being a great dad. Also agree hes a pretty darn good looking fish for his age...kinda of a Sean Connery of the discus world.:)
... agent "00Discus"
al

Hi Al,

That is a great analogy! Congrats for the new batch, I never get tired of watching discus fish fry attached to their parents. It is a unique sight in nature.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Al,

That is a great analogy! Congrats for the new batch, I never get tired of watching discus fish fry attached to their parents. It is a unique sight in nature.

Thanks Freddy!

[brewmaster15]

Growing nicely !

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[jwcarlson]

Man, discus with babies is so cool.

[Kingdom Come Discus]

This is quite exciting!

[fljones3]

I am cheering on this thread. :)

[brewmaster15]

Thanks guys!

Morning pic before wc and feeding..

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[Adamski77]

This is so lovely!

[Jandiscus]

Very cool....jealous :-)

[brewmaster15]

Morning shots.

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[Second Hand Pat]

The fry are really getting big Al :D How old are they now?
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Pat they went free swimming on Dec 29 .

I am feeding them 4 times a day over a 16 hour day using 2 batches of baby brine shrimp I hatch morning and night.

Getting about 80% wc daily at this point.

[Second Hand Pat]

Your effort in these guys is really showing Al. :D What are you hoping to see in these guys as they grow.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Pat. This batch should be blue snakeskins and blue turqs. I know the Dads genetics to a T but the female was recently added from Chicago Discus. I'm guessing there won't be any surprises here. Blue snakeskins are pretty straight forward genetics.


These will be my next gen of domestics to use in my wild crosses.

[jawfish]

Looking great Al. I like your old male a lot, looking forward to see how this new generation come out.

Cheers Fred

[brewmaster15]

Looking great Al. I like your old male a lot, looking forward to see how this new generation come out.

Cheers Fred

Thanks Fred! I am too. :)

[danotaylor]

Bloody marvelous mate! I'm starting to get the round fish itch again :inquisitive:

[brewmaster15]

Bloody marvelous mate! I'm starting to get the round fish itch again :inquisitive:

Thanks Danny! Great time to get back in.. lots of great fish from sponsors and hobbyists right now.

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[brewmaster15]

Fairly sure I need to cull this one. Can't put my finger on it but its shape is lacking.

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Happens once in a while.

[danotaylor]

Poor lil bloke is missing his hard dorsal rays :(

[brewmaster15]

Breakfast is served...

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[Second Hand Pat]

They look great Al and this is a nice sized spawn :)
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Morning after wc..

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Fry are doing well. Up to last night I hadnt lost any.. I lost 3 last night... and culled 3 tiny guys.

[Second Hand Pat]

Looks like they are doing very well Al :)
Pat

[danotaylor]

It’s a labor of love fo’sho :heart2:

[jwcarlson]

Fairly sure I need to cull this one. Can't put my finger on it but its shape is lacking.

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Happens once in a while.

You're missing an opportunity! People sell deformed half black and "bulldog" discus for a premium. Start a new line of "humphead" discus, 2" fish for $150/each.

[brewmaster15]

HI all,

I decided this morning to remove the male from the fry. The Male was starting to get irritated by their feeding and I didn't feel comfortable with leaving him in there. Going back to my original post in this thread...



Okay I decided on my 3rd entry. This one will document My attempts to breed a 7 year old home bred male Blue snakeskin. I have posted pics before of him. For his age he is still a real good looking discus. As mentioned in my other contest entry my breeders all got old and the females don't lay any more. However the males still look and act like they want to spawn so I bought a few females from Chicago Discus to tryand breed my males and carry on the lines...


In this cross its my 7 year old male being bred to a new blue snakeskin female... what will happen ? Is he still fertile? I think he is. Lets find out.

As in my other thread.. the goal is to breed this old male and I will swap out females as often as needed to do this.

My goal was to breed this 7 year old male.. I succeeded with that and he really did wonderfully. I have come to have a new respect for old male discus. I think they probably have a longer time when they are fertile than the females do with their egg laying. Since my focus was to breed the male, I will return to that for this thread. He is currently resting in his own tank while I evaluate which female to cross him to.I have a pretty good idea on who that will be but more on that latter.

Not often I can say an experiment was a success immediately but this one was.

Hope it was interesting to you all as it was for me.

and as for the fry, I will raise them out on baby brine and switch to my discus chow as I always do here and will post updates in the other sections of the forum and a link back to here. It will be interesting to watch them grow.

al

[Charlyc11]

Nice job Al and I like the pictures with the fry. Thumbs up man.

[brewmaster15]

Nice job Al and I like the pictures with the fry. Thumbs up man.

Thanks Chuck! Much appreciated!:)

[jwcarlson]

It's always nice to accomplish what you were going for! :) Glad you got some fry from the old fella.

[brewmaster15]

I have the old guy in the same tank with another old fish now. The female is the female from my f2 wild cross... here...

https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?139810-My-first-fry-tank-in-a-Long-time

Shes close to 6 years old now and probably lays eggs maybe every few months. Its been awhile since she spawned so I thought lets see if I can breed my 7 rear old male to a 6 year old female..

He is very much up for the challenge.. she is not quite 100% yet but she does swim up to the partition and I think is warming up to him. I will try and remove the partition as soon as I see any bowing or shimmying... or in the next few days .

Old guy..
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New flame..
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Glare is really bad right now in the room...sorry.

[danotaylor]

Cool beans mate. Looking forward to seeing how these 2 respond to each other!

[brewmaster15]

Fry are growing out here ..
https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?140591-Old-guy-fry

I have removed the partition on Old Guys Tank as his new bride was staring at the cone and he was shimmying.

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At this point I am switching them over to a RO water /tap mix.

Al

[danotaylor]

I think my in laws (late 70’s) have discus genes. They stare at the bedroom door and my father in law shimmies about every week or 2…no eggs so far here either so we’ll see :p

[brewmaster15]

I think my in laws (late 70’s) have discus genes. They stare at the bedroom door and my father in law shimmies about every week or 2…no eggs so far here either so we’ll see :p

Lol... maybe drop.the house temp a few degrees and order them freeze dried blackworms to get them in the mood. :)

[danotaylor]

Lol... maybe drop.the house temp a few degrees and order them freeze dried blackworms to get them in the mood. :)

Haha, I just might do that Al, lolz :p

[Second Hand Pat]

Nothing like keeping the "old guy" busy Al :D

Too funny about your in-laws Danny :D :D

Pat

[brewmaster15]

Well Romeo put his old lady in the mood.
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Happened a bit sooner than I thought so they are just im tap.. its okay if the hatch rate is low though... Old guy already gave me fry so I am happy either way. Good size spawn.

[brewmaster15]

Sorry guys.. I just noticed my thread was locked? Not sure why or how that happened ...must have been gremlins.:)

Al

[Second Hand Pat]

Cool beans Al and good sized spawn. Al, if you double click with the mouse on the orange envelope when looking at thread list of a subforum it will lock the thread. If you double click again it will unlock. A little too easy to do. It also happens with the "Whats New" list.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Cool beans Al and good sized spawn. Al, if you double click with the mouse on the orange envelope when looking at thread list of a subforum it will lock the thread. If you double click again it will unlock. A little too easy to do. It also happens with the "Whats New" list.
Pat

Thanks Pat, I know what you mean... I probably fat fingered it on my phone.
:)

[brewmaster15]

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Looks good so far.. actually better than I thought for tap water here.

[brewmaster15]

Well that didn't work out. This was the first time I had a pair knock down the cone and screen. Last night I found it toppled over and most of the eggs gone.. I had seen the female trying to get to the cone by the top of the screen.. guessing she knocked it over.

Oh well.. I'm sure they will spawn again soon.

Al

[brewmaster15]

That didnt take long..

Eggs 1/29
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This time I think I will leave them unscreened and just cover the tank for privacy.

[LizStreithorst]

Al, whatever will you do with all these fry????

[brewmaster15]

Al, whatever will you do with all these fry????

Liz, I have to replace some aging stock here, so that will be first..then I have some friends I promised stock to ...and then there is the inevitable fact I will probably start shipping again.

time will tell.

al

[LizStreithorst]

The curse of shipping will be in the past for me. It was a hard decision, but I decided last week that I will no longer be breeding. My heart was willing, but my back put it's foot down, and said "NO!"

[brewmaster15]

The curse of shipping will be in the past for me. It was a hard decision, but I decided last week that I will no longer be breeding. My heart was willing, but my back put it's foot down, and said "NO!"

Thats a real Bummer Liz! I'm sorry.:(

al

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks, Al.

[fljones3]

The curse of shipping will be in the past for me. It was a hard decision, but I decided last week that I will no longer be breeding. My heart was willing, but my back put it's foot down, and said "NO!"

Very sorry to hear this Liz.

[LizStreithorst]

It's not the end of the world. It just feels like it. I am keeping what I have which is 2 spawns of Discus, my best pair, and 2 adult females all of my own breeding. They should fit nicely into 3 100's which I should be able to do daily WC on.

[Second Hand Pat]

Sorry to hear Liz :(
Hugs,
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Still guarding and tending.

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[Charlyc11]

Congrats Al !!!:bounce::bounce2: :D