Trying Something New

[Second Hand Pat]

I have always been fascinated with poison dart frogs and after doing a bit of research decided to try it. I did learn that the poison the frogs produce is from their diets of ants etc in the wild. So the frogs raised domestically do not pose a danger to humans. You can setup a really gorgeous terrarium for these guys with plants, moss, water features etc. So I decided to order the terrarium and it's supplies as a x-mas gift to myself :)

I want to setup the terrarium setup prior to ordering any frogs. I may start with the Dendrobates auratus 'Costa Rican Green & Black' Dart Frog but will be doing more research during the terrarium setup.

Anyone here ever keep poison dart frogs?
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

I haven't but I've always thought that they were the coolest thing ever. I can't wait to follow this new journey you're embarking on.

[jeep]

Sounds interesting.

[Second Hand Pat]

I haven't but I've always thought that they were the coolest thing ever. I can't wait to follow this new journey you're embarking on.

Thanks Liz, the terrarium setup looks to be super cool, like a little bit of the rain forest in your house. :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Sounds interesting.

Thanks Brian, you can keep different types of frogs together and some frogs will not tolerate other frogs. You even have the watch the gender of the frogs.
Pat

[Iminit]

Never kept them but this past summer at the Mystic Aquarium they had a huge terrarium with them. Very interesting! Wasn’t it in the Jurassic park movies that we learned they can change sex!

[jimmyjoe]

Hey Pat, sounds fascinating how big of a terrarium are you looking at, wish you the best of luck. Jim in Ohio

[Second Hand Pat]

Never kept them but this past summer at the Mystic Aquarium they had a huge terrarium with them. Very interesting! Wasn’t it in the Jurassic park movies that we learned they can change sex!

Hi Tom, not sure about the frog comment but definitely remember when they said "Life will find a way" in the Jurassic Park movies.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Pat, sounds fascinating how big of a terrarium are you looking at, wish you the best of luck. Jim in Ohio

Thank you Jim, I am going with a 18x18x18 terrarium. Big enough to house a couple frogs depending on the frogs selected.
Pat

[danotaylor]

Sounds like a fun project Pat! I have often wondered about a terrarium with dart frogs but never bother to find out their poison comes from their diet in the wild LOLz. Trust you are well. Just stopping by to say g'day! To you as well Liz & Brian :angel:

[Second Hand Pat]

Sounds like a fun project Pat! I have often wondered about a terrarium with dart frogs but never bother to find out their poison comes from their diet in the wild LOLz. Trust you are well. Just stopping by to say g'day! To you as well Liz & Brian :angel:

Well hello Danny, talk about long time, no talk. :D I hope you are well also. You keeping fish these days?
Pat.

[danotaylor]

I am well thanks Pat. I have a 500 gallon Malawi predator, hap & peacock tank, and a 110 gallon tropheus tank. Once our teenage boys have grown up & moved out I would love to get another discus tank, but cannot give them the time & energy they deserve at this stage of life. All the best to you!

[brewmaster15]

I have always been fascinated with poison dart frogs and after doing a bit of research decided to try it. I did learn that the poison the frogs produce is from their diets of ants etc in the wild. So the frogs raised domestically do not pose a danger to humans. You can setup a really gorgeous terrarium for these guys with plants, moss, water features etc. So I decided to order the terrarium and it's supplies as a x-mas gift to myself :)

I want to setup the terrarium setup prior to ordering any frogs. I may start with the Dendrobates auratus 'Costa Rican Green & Black' Dart Frog but will be doing more research during the terrarium setup.

Anyone here ever keep poison dart frogs?
Pat

Oh boy.. Pats going the route of Jack Wattley now! Wattley got into Dart frogs in a big way in his latter years.

https://joshsfrogs.com/sp/dendrobates-tinctorius-azureus-wattley-dart064

I haven't kept poison darts Pat.. always was too worried for the cats. I have kept quite a few other tree frogs though.

I did have some good experiences with Mantella frogs at a local petshop I helped out at. .. they are from madagascar and come in poisonous and not poisonous species. Though unrelated to Darts they look just like them and fill similar niches.

Sounds like you will be having alot of fun with them. Enjoy!

[Second Hand Pat]

Oh boy.. Pats going the route of Jack Wattley now! Wattley got into Dart frogs in a big way in his latter years.

https://joshsfrogs.com/sp/dendrobates-tinctorius-azureus-wattley-dart064

I haven't kept poison darts Pat.. always was too worried for the cats. I have kept quite a few other tree frogs though.

I did have some good experiences with Mantella frogs at a local petshop I helped out at. .. they are from madagascar and come in poisonous and not poisonous species. Though unrelated to Darts they look just like them and fill similar niches.

Sounds like you will be having alot of fun with them. Enjoy!

Thanks Al :D I had no clue that Jack W. was into dart frogs. I see you included a link to Josh's Frogs with Wattley's line. That's too cool. :D What did you feed the frogs you had? From the video's I have been watching seems the dart frogs are eating fruit flies.
Pat

[Charlyc11]

Pat it reminded me the t-shirt that I bought in Costa Rica.

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[Second Hand Pat]

That is too cute Chuck :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So I have most of the terrarium supplies but have not opened the boxes yet. I have one more box coming which is the living things like plants. I am also doing some basic research and frogs need to be quarantined to ensure they are healthy, eating etc. Just like fish lol. I will also need to maintain my own colony of flightless Fruit flies. So the education continues.
Pat

[danotaylor]

Wonderful Pat. The lessons in life never cease really do they? Not for the inquisitive souls anyway! Really looking forward to tracking this journey with you from a distance!
I did figure out how to upload my 500gal Malawi tank vid to YouTube…and remembered when posting to take the “s” out of https so it loads to SD as a viewing window vs a link :D
Take care my friend!

[Second Hand Pat]

Wonderful Pat. The lessons in life never cease really do they? Not for the inquisitive souls anyway! Really looking forward to tracking this journey with you from a distance!
I did figure out how to upload my 500gal Malawi tank vid to YouTube…and remembered when posting to take the “s” out of https so it loads to SD as a viewing window vs a link :D
Take care my friend!

I am glad you are following along Danny :D

and so today I added the substrate to the terrarium. First you lay a layer of porous balls. Look like a small eggs, then a screen to keep the balls and the dirt layer separate. Then you add the dirt mix which contains mixture of charcoal, milled sphagnum moss, fir bark, minerals and trace elements. This is the planting layer. Last you add sphagnum moss. Now you have to decide on the hard-scrape. I found a lovely piece of cypress root and I hope it fits. Here's some pics

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[danotaylor]

So far SO good!:bandana: I used those terracotta (clay) balls in my aquaponics system when it was up and running...SO nice to plant into, easier on my old guy knuckles than planting into gravel :o Do you fill the bottom under to soil with water Pat to create the moist humid environment for the frogs?

[Second Hand Pat]

So far SO good!:bandana: I used those terracotta (clay) balls in my aquaponics system when it was up and running...SO nice to plant into, easier on my old guy knuckles than planting into gravel :o Do you fill the bottom under to soil with water Pat to create the moist humid environment for the frogs?

Thanks Danny, I have not yet. I plan to plant today so will add water then. What plants did you have in your aquaponics system?
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Playing around with the hardscape. Thinking I may need to go with a smaller wood.

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[LizStreithorst]

It's such a beautiful piece that if I were you, I would look at the tank, frogs, and all before you replaced it. Where did you get that piece and how large is it? When do the frogs arrive? I'm on pins and needles waiting to see everything once it's complete.

[danotaylor]

Pat I agree with Liz. I really love that piece of cypress root. I've never kept terrestrial amphibians before but I kinda feel like their use of the space would be so different from fish and that they will use that piece in a way that enhances viewing vs obstructing it. Just my 2 non-experienced cents worth LOLZ

[Second Hand Pat]

It's such a beautiful piece that if I were you, I would look at the tank, frogs, and all before you replaced it. Where did you get that piece and how large is it? When do the frogs arrive? I'm on pins and needles waiting to see everything once it's complete.

Liz, I am sticking with this is piece of wood, it's beautiful piece. Some of the suggestions from a dart frog group on FB (yes, FB can have some uses) is to use spray foam to attach the wood to the background and use aquarium silicone to waterproof the foam. So I am taking the terrarium apart to do that. I have had the wood for years Liz, I have quite a collection of aquarium wood.

When the terrarium is put back together, planted and doing well most folks wait a couple or more weeks to add the frogs. So most likely frogs are six weeks out or so. Another thing is I will need to culture my own fruit flies so that is another learning curve which Al has been helping with (thanks Al).

Hang in there with me Liz, we will get there.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat I agree with Liz. I really love that piece of cypress root. I've never kept terrestrial amphibians before but I kinda feel like their use of the space would be so different from fish and that they will use that piece in a way that enhances viewing vs obstructing it. Just my 2 non-experienced cents worth LOLZ

Thank Danny, depending of the frogs selected most will use the whole space in the terrarium. Some frogs do prefer to stay on the ground but most are climbers based on my understanding.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I know this sounds contrary but sometimes you can get good info on FB. I joined one of the dart frog/terrarium groups and have really received some good suggestions. One suggestion is to take my cypress root and "glue" it to the background in an outright position. You use a spray foam to attach the root and then cover the foam with silicone. So I have removed all the substrate base layers and am waiting on the foam and silicone :)

I may also redo how I am doing the base layer by building an egg crate box under which the base layer will sit. The egg crate will need screen over the box to keep the base layer and dirt layers separate. More later :D
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Pat are you going to go whole hog on this an make it a bioactive vivarium?

Al

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat are you going to go whole hog on this an make it a bioactive vivarium?

Al

I is Al and pretty sure it makes it a whole bunch more complex.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

It does Pat but it will make the vivarium much more stable over time.

[CliffsDiscus]

The late Wattley got to be invited to speak at San Francisco Aquarium Society back in the 90's , but before making speaking he took a trip to Watsonville to visit a frog collector.

Cliff

[Second Hand Pat]

The late Wattley got to be invited to speak at San Francisco Aquarium Society back in the 90's , but before making speaking he took a trip to Watsonville to visit a frog collector.

Cliff

Thanks Cliff, I had a similar conversation with Al about Jack W. getting into dart frogs. There's a place which actually carry's a line of dart frog developed by Wattley. Cool stuff :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

It does Pat but it will make the vivarium much more stable over time.

I'm looking forward to it Al, the learning curve and planning is really something I need right now.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So mounted the Cypress stump onto the background. After the foam cured I found the weight of the stump caused the background (which was not attached to the back glass) separated from the back glass so I siliconed the background to the back glass and allowed that to cure for 24 hours. Here's the result...

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For the next step I am going to use aquarium filter foam for the bottom layer. It will serve the same purpose as the "bio-balls" in breaking down waste etc. Waiting for that to arrive :D
Pat

[danotaylor]

Perfect fit Pat. Looks amazing!

[jwcarlson]

Looks great, Pat! :)

[AquaticNerd]

Super neat Pat!

[Adamski77]

Looking great!

[Second Hand Pat]

Perfect fit Pat. Looks amazing!

Thank you Danny :D


Looks great, Pat! :)

Thank you Jacob :D


Super neat Pat!

Thank you Jake :D


Looking great!

Thank you Adam :D

[Second Hand Pat]

So I learned you can use aquarium filter foam for the base layer of the terrarium which is way easier to work with then the "bio-balls" which came with the terrarium. The foam is two inches thick and I will place a screen over the foam to keep the foam separate from the dirt layer. I using a different piece in the front of the tank and did a little sculpturing just to add visual layers to the tank.

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[Second Hand Pat]

I am also adding a mix to the foam background so plants/moss can grow on background. I mixed gorilla wood glue, water and coco fibre and added it to the top of the background as a test run. Seemed to go ok. So I have forgetten on how to embed a video :(
Pat


http://youtu.be/1Mrt6SRfx0w

[danotaylor]

Pat I wonder if it's that your video is a "short" that it won't embed correctly :confused:

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat I wonder if it's that your video is a "short" that it won't embed correctly :confused:

It's possible Danny and annoying. I will play with it some more.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I am finally moving forward on this project and have made some changes. I decided to use aquarium filter foam as my base layer instead of the funky little bio-balls which came with the terrarium kit. I did wrap a screen around the aquarium filter foam to keep the dirt layer out of the filtration layer. Basically the aquarium filter foam serves the same purpose as it does in an aquarium, provide a medium to break down waste from the dirt layer ie frog waste etc.

So at this point I covered the top of the background with what I described in post 41. I have also added some tree fern pieces to the bottom of the background to help hide the yellow of the original background. Last night I started to add plants to the cypress stump. I will post pictures later today to show how that looks. Slowly moving forward lol.
Pat

[danotaylor]

:drummer:

[Second Hand Pat]

Here you go Danny :D

Here's a video of the terrarium. It's far from complete but pretty happy with it :D


http://youtu.be/iATvXgtYZ3s

[danotaylor]

Wow Pat, that looks absolutely amazing! Literally looks like a small piece of forest floor. Nicely done! So the frogs just need humidity and not some standing water in their space?

[fljones3]

Your frogs will be amazed. :) Nice!

[Second Hand Pat]

Wow Pat, that looks absolutely amazing! Literally looks like a small piece of forest floor. Nicely done! So the frogs just need humidity and not some standing water in their space?

Thank you Danny :D In my research regarding the frogs they do not need standing water but definitely need high humidity. The humidity is currently running at 99% within the terrarium and the temp is running in the mid-70s. Also apparently the frogs will breed in the terrarium and lay eggs under a leaf and the females will carry the tadpoles to standing water once the eggs hatch but that is a bridge for later. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Your frogs will be amazed. :) Nice!

Thanks Frank, I will be adding more structure/plants to the terrarium so the frogs have plenty of hiding places. I also want the terrarium to mature a bit prior to getting the frogs.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Here you go Danny :D

Here's a video of the terrarium. It's far from complete but pretty happy with it :D


http://youtu.be/iATvXgtYZ3s

Wonderful Pat! That came out awesome!! You will have some seriously happy Dart frogs!

al

[Second Hand Pat]

Wonderful Pat! That came out awesome!! You will have some seriously happy Dart frogs!

al

Thank you Al :) I am sure glad I am taking this slowly even if it means the frogs will not arrive anytime soon. Loving the journey :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Anyone who knows me here know that I prefer wild discus to domestics. Generally I prefer the "natural" state of any living creature except for dogs and cats however. Even as a kid I wanted a wolf as a pet. There is a book titled "A Wolf in the Family" based on true story showing it can work but in practice, you generally get different outcome. Anyway I digress.

So what does this have with a terrarium? Now I am on the hunt for plants which would exist in the dart frog's natural habitat. So I found a very small leafed vine which does well in an terrarium and bought two leaf cuttings which does not have roots. At first I planted them in the terrarium and considered maybe I should try to root them first prior to added them to the terrarium. So I contacted Al and he gave me instructions for making my own soil mixture in a small peat pot with a bit of rooting powder. I placed the leaf cuttings with their tiny peat pots inside the terrarium as they are high humidity plants. Fingers crossed I will be adding them to the terrarium soon. Thanks Al :D
Pat

[brewmaster15]

My pleasure Pat. :) Propagating plants from cuttings is a really great experience. Just have to be careful. A single leaf of some plants will give you dozens of babies. You can easily get over run with plants.I was perpetually rehoming and gifting new plants to everyone. Im looking forward to seeing how your vine does for you.

Al

[Second Hand Pat]

My pleasure Pat. :) Propagating plants from cuttings is a really great experience. Just have to be careful. A single leaf of some plants will give you dozens of babies. You can easily get over run with plants.I was perpetually rehoming and gifting new plants to everyone. Im looking forward to seeing how your vine does for you.

Al

Thanks Al, they are both still alive and I have them partial in shade as they root better according to the instructions. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So I joined a Dart Frog forum and those guys are pretty particular (in a good way) and so it was suggested to add both horizontal and diagonal structure to the terrarium so this is what I did. I will admit that I do like it. Adds more dimension to the terrarium. I also added more plants today but they are small and planted at the base of the cypress root.

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[LizStreithorst]

I like it better this way!

[danotaylor]

Looks bloody fantastic Pat! I like the added hard scape as well! Additional crawling & perching spots. Do frogs “perch”? Lol

[Second Hand Pat]

I like it better this way!

I do too Liz :D a lot better!


Looks bloody fantastic Pat! I like the added hard scape as well! Additional crawling & perching spots. Do frogs “perch”? Lol

Thank you Danny and yes they do. I hope the frogs enjoy the extra places they can go.

Pat

[Discus Fever]

That tank is looking really nice, I like the vertical hard scape as well.

[Discus-n00b]

I've had this on my list forever Pat! I think it will be my next animal venture. I feel like I read about darts and terrariums daily, just haven't pulled the trigger on a setup yet. Your terrarium looks great!

Ever since visiting Costa Rica in the early 2000s (my ideal paradise) where I got to see wild dart frogs I've always been fascinated. Did I miss it, do you know what type you are going with yet?

[Second Hand Pat]

That tank is looking really nice, I like the vertical hard scape as well.

Thank you Scott :) it's way better with the additional hard scape :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I've had this on my list forever Pat! I think it will be my next animal venture. I feel like I read about darts and terrariums daily, just haven't pulled the trigger on a setup yet. Your terrarium looks great!

Ever since visiting Costa Rica in the early 2000s (my ideal paradise) where I got to see wild dart frogs I've always been fascinated. Did I miss it, do you know what type you are going with yet?

Thank you Matt :D I do not know which dart frog I want yet. So I joined a forum called Dendroboard and those guys are just as picky as we are here on this forum. In the beginner section of their forum there is a sticky thread with a flowchart walking you thru whether you are ready/want dart frogs. The interesting takeaway is you design the terrarium for the dart frog you want to keep. They also suggest starting with a tank at least 24x18x18. Mine is 18x18x18. So I have made several beginner mistakes. lol
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

The terrarium is coming along nicely. I have one more plant ordered and just adding small touches like moss. I also think I have chosen the dart frog. It's called Ranitomeya variabilis 'Southern'. It's a thumbnail dart frog which is a smaller frog then most dart frogs and it's considered a good beginner frog, it can live in groups and has a quiet call. I would show you guys a photo but everything seems copyrighted. Search on "Ranitomeya variabilis 'Southern'" in your browser if you wish to see a photo.

On another note I just ordered my second terrarium and a cabinet to house both terrariums and perhaps room for one more :D so I am excited :D :D
Pat

[AquaticNerd]

That's so awesome Pat! I took at look at the frog you're thinking of getting and they look so neat! I can't wait to see the end result with the citters in there and your fantastic pictures of them.

Is this the beginnings of MTS (Multiple Terarrium Syndrome)? :D

[Second Hand Pat]

That's so awesome Pat! I took at look at the frog you're thinking of getting and they look so neat! I can't wait to see the end result with the citters in there and your fantastic pictures of them.

Is this the beginnings of MTS (Multiple Terarrium Syndrome)? :D

Me too Jake but letting the terrarium grow in a bit before getting the frogs. Plus I need to do more frog research to ensure I am prepared for them. Regarding the MTS, I will try to remain at two lol.
Pat

[danotaylor]

and perhaps room for one more :D so I am excited :D :D
Pat

Very cool. I see you “trying” to keep it at 2 in this quote Pat :p

[Discus-n00b]

On another note I just ordered my second terrarium and a cabinet to house both terrariums and perhaps room for one more :D so I am excited :D :D
Pat

And so it begins haha! The Ranitomeya variabilis 'Southern' look very nice.

[Second Hand Pat]

Very cool. I see you “trying” to keep it at 2 in this quote Pat :p

We will see how far I get with that Danny :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

And so it begins haha! The Ranitomeya variabilis 'Southern' look very nice.

Yes indeed Matt and it seems the Ranitomeya variabilis 'Southern' are not readily available but for now, I can wait :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Progress on the planting of this terrarium. I choose most of the plants which were native to Central and South American. The one taller plant on the right hand side is being replaced with a rattlesnake plant (Goeppertia insignis, formerly Calathea lancifolia) which comes Monday. I am still adding small details like moss etc.
Pat

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[danotaylor]

It looks beautiful Pat! The frogs are gonna be like "whoop whoop, heavenly terrarium!" Looking forward to seeing them in there!

[Second Hand Pat]

It looks beautiful Pat! The frogs are gonna be like "whoop whoop, heavenly terrarium!" Looking forward to seeing them in there!

Thank you Danny, I am having fun with the learning and redoing (undo beginner mistakes) and simply loving the results :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So I ordered another but larger terrarium and a cabinet to house both terrariums (both were on sale) and both items arrived damaged. :(
Pat

[danotaylor]

That's disappointing Pat :sorry:

[Second Hand Pat]

That's disappointing Pat :sorry:

Thanks Danny, Josh's Frogs is sending a new cabinet and reimbursed me on the terrarium. My son-in-law is suggesting that I see if the glass in the door can be removed and have a glass company cut a new piece of glass. I will be researching that today. If I can make that happen then I have a freebie :D

On a high note I found a possible source for the frogs. My next step there researching on starting and maintaining my own fruit fly cultures.

Edited to add that I found you can buy replacement doors and have one coming from Ken's Fish.

Pat

[Iminit]

Surprised they came with glass. Plexiglass or acrylic would be better. Both are more durable.

[Second Hand Pat]

Surprised they came with glass. Plexiglass or acrylic would be better. Both are more durable.

My guess is price Tom, or tradition since most aquariums are made with glass.
Pat

[Iminit]

Well a lot of terrariums are made of either screen or plexiglass or better acrylic. The acrylic is clearer and holds temperature better.

[Second Hand Pat]

Well a lot of terrariums are made of either screen or plexiglass or better acrylic. The acrylic is clearer and holds temperature better.

Correct but also depends on what the terrarium is going to house. In this case poison dart frogs which needs a moist, humid environment so would need to be glass or acrylic. My issue with acrylic it could make the terrarium too warm as dart frog will die at 85 type temps. Now the terrarium goes between 75F to 78F.
Pat

[danotaylor]

Awesome Pat. I somehow knew you’d wind up with 3 terrariums lolz!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Awesome Pat. I somehow knew you’d wind up with 3 terrariums lolz!!

Danny, will you quit reading my mind lol :D
Pat

[danotaylor]

:p:p:p

[Second Hand Pat]

So here is how the terrarium looks now. I am or will be adding tiny touches the background to try and cover it with something green. Overall I am loving how it looks and it's a fun project. The frogs should come in March weather permitting. I will be getting the springtails and isopods (cleanup crew) soon so the terrarium becomes bioactive.

Next I will be starting my second terrarium :D
Pat

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[Discus-n00b]

Looks incredible Pat. I need to make some space I’m jealous!

[Jandiscus]

Awe Pat,

absolutely love it. I had tons of reptiles, frogs etc. when I was a kid. Nothing exotic but still. My whole family had to endure the early morning frog concert when the sun came up. My brother always gave me flack for it. Never lost interest in it but simply don't have the time anymore. Maybe someday in the future. The last terrarium I had was in 2020, housing a ball python. I had to give it away for the same reason I had to give up my discus (moving for work). Your habitat just looks like a piece of art.

Cheers,

Jan

[brewmaster15]

So here is how the terrarium looks now. I am or will be adding tiny touches the background to try and cover it with something green. Overall I am loving how it looks and it's a fun project. The frogs should come in March weather permitting. I will be getting the springtails and isopods (cleanup crew) soon so the terrarium becomes bioactive.

Next I will be starting my second terrarium :D
Pat

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Pat its coming along great! There is going to be some happy dart frogs!

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat its coming along great! There is going to be some happy dart frogs!

Thank you Al and I hope the frogs will be happy. Next step is fruit fly cultures. I have all the supplies coming for that. I will admit that I suck at FF management lol.
Pat

[danotaylor]

Looks spectacular Pat!!

Jan I never thought about the “sounds” a captive frog terrarium would produce…

Pat are FF cultures done in a sealed or contained environment? What of the fruit you guys wanna eat? Any risk to cross contamination?

[Second Hand Pat]

Thank you Danny :) FF cultures are domestically raised so not really worried about CC. I get my cultures from a place in CT called NEHERP / New England Herpetoculture LLC and their products are super nice plus they have a great plant selection for terrariums. I originality found them when I was using FF for my jumping spiders. This is what a freshly started FF culture looks like

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to give you an idea. This culture will produce FF for two to three weeks.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

The first terrarium continues to do well. I even had one of the plants flower which was pretty cool :D

On the second terrarium I ordered and replaced the one broken door. I also ordered a background kit and boy, it has a bunch of cork wood. I also think I have decided on the dart frog for the second terrarium. It's called "Dendrobates auratus ‘Highland Bronze’ ". It's a beginner frog which can live in groups with a quiet call. Yup, mature male frogs call at night. I have not told Tom yet lol.

Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Singing frogs make such a pretty sound. But if he objects you can always tell him that you didn't know.

[Second Hand Pat]

Singing frogs make such a pretty sound. But if he objects you can always tell him that you didn't know.

I doubt he would hear them Liz but I will for sure keep your suggestion in mind lol.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Well, the frogs seem to be in limbo. Tracking indicates their package may not be available until the end of day today. I was suppose to pick them up at the FedEx Ship Center. Can we say very annoyed :angry: :bomb: :cry:.
Pat

[Discus-n00b]

It's just difficult to get good shipping service post Covid, it can be very annoying. Hopefully the frogs come through ok.

Always been fond of Dendrobates auratus, the green and black from Costa Rica are the ones I fell in love with in the wild. The bronze are really neat because of that blue they have to them. Great choice for that second terrarium.

[Second Hand Pat]

I have been frogged!

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More later.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

It's beautiful, Pat. I can't wait to meet his friends.

[Second Hand Pat]

It's just difficult to get good shipping service post Covid, it can be very annoying. Hopefully the frogs come through ok.

Always been fond of Dendrobates auratus, the green and black from Costa Rica are the ones I fell in love with in the wild. The bronze are really neat because of that blue they have to them. Great choice for that second terrarium.

No kidding Matt and shipping is now rather expensive. Matt who is the guy I bought the frogs from called FedEx 800 number and determined the frogs were at the FedEx Ship Center. When I had called the same number an hour earlier the lady had no clue where the frogs were which really made me mad. Anyway Matt texted me about his findings and I was able to get them around 2pm or so.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

It's beautiful, Pat. I can't wait to meet his friends.

Here you go Liz, I think these are two separate frogs of the three.

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[Second Hand Pat]

So these guys are still juvies but near adult and they seem pretty out going but time will tell. I am absolutely in love with them. They are totally gorgeous. :) I hope to get more pics tomorrow.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

I'm in love with the ones with the pretty blue legs. I'd almost marry the one in the 3 one in the second series of pics. I bet you're on top of the world.

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm in love with the ones with the pretty blue legs. I'd almost marry the one in the 3 one in the second series of pics. I bet you're on top of the world.

For sure Liz, a long time making this a reality. :D The frogs seem happy. Already outgoing and eating. Can't argue with that.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Liz, that pretty blue pattern is underneath the frogs also. Taken thru the shipping container.

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[danotaylor]

Amazing Pat. They’re beautiful. Way to go amphibian Mumma!!

[brewmaster15]

Awesome all around! Congrats Pat!

Al

[Discus-n00b]

Those contrast wood so well, look great all the time but especially nice on that brown background

[Second Hand Pat]

Amazing Pat. They’re beautiful. Way to go amphibian Mumma!!

Thank you Danny :D


Awesome all around! Congrats Pat!

Al

Thank you Al :D


Those contrast wood so well, look great all the time but especially nice on that brown background

Thanks Matt :D

[AquaticNerd]

Those are so neat! Thanks for sharing pictures Pat, and glad to hear that they seem to be settling in okay. :)

[Charlyc11]

I have been frogged!

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More later.
Pat

Wow nice lookin frog love those spots.:heart2:

[Second Hand Pat]

Those are so neat! Thanks for sharing pictures Pat, and glad to hear that they seem to be settling in okay. :)

Thank you Jake, I am loving these little guys. Two were out soon after


Wow nice lookin frog love those spots.:heart2:

Thank you Chuck :D

Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So feeding with FFs seems a lot easier after watching a couple a couple YouTube videos. You take a tall container and add a wee bit of either vitamin or calcium powder (supplements for the frogs). Place a large funnel into the container. Tap the FF down into the culture so you can open the lid and then tap FF into the funnel and they slide right in the powder. The power weights them down so they can't crawl out. Take another container and move the FF into it without adding the extra powder, then add to the terrarium :D
Pat

[danotaylor]

So feeding with FFs seems a lot easier after watching a couple a couple YouTube videos. You take a tall container and add a wee bit of either vitamin or calcium powder (supplements for the frogs). Place a large funnel into the container. Tap the FF down into the culture so you can open the lid and then tap FF into the funnel and they slide right in the powder. The power weights them down so they can't crawl out. Take another container and move the FF into it without adding the extra powder, then add to the terrarium :D
Pat
Love to see a short video of this process Pat culminating in the FF getting consumed by one of your DF’s :D

[LizStreithorst]

ditto

[jwcarlson]

I'm in love with the ones with the pretty blue legs. I'd almost marry the one in the 3 one in the second series of pics. I bet you're on top of the world.

Don't you have to kiss them to see if they turn into prince charming? :D

The one on the wood is really stunning. Very cool frogs, Pat!

[LizStreithorst]

I'd kiss him if he'd turn me into a young vibrant lady Poison Dart Frog.

[Charlyc11]

They are so stunning that in Costa Rica they are signes not to touch the frogs. But you can pet at your own risk the monkees and the 10 foot iguanas. Ill post a picture when I get home.

[Second Hand Pat]

Love to see a short video of this process Pat culminating in the FF getting consumed by one of your DF’s :D


ditto

I can try to do that Danny and Liz but will need to be two separate videos. I will try and setup the phone next time I prepare the FFs. The frogs have settled but they are being a little shy today. They are coming out but when I approach the terrarium they go undercover. Just need a bit of time.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Don't you have to kiss them to see if they turn into prince charming? :D

The one on the wood is really stunning. Very cool frogs, Pat!


I'd kiss him if he'd turn me into a young vibrant lady Poison Dart Frog.

No kissing the frogs lol. A matter of fact it's suggested if you handle the frogs to wear gloves as frogs absorb stuff thru their skin way too easy.

Liz, you are more then welcome to come live in the terrarium lol :crazy: :grin:

Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

They are so stunning that in Costa Rica they are signes not to touch the frogs. But you can pet at your own risk the monkees and the 10 foot iguanas. Ill post a picture when I get home.

Would love to see any photos Chuck :D
Pat

[Charlyc11]

I know I have some of the iguanas but no frogs except for the t-shirt I posted earlier in the thread.

[Second Hand Pat]

I know I have some of the iguanas but no frogs except for the t-shirt I posted earlier in the thread.

Post away Chuck :) I love the lizards too! Had green iguanas as a kid.
Pat

[danotaylor]

I can try to do that Danny and Liz but will need to be two separate videos. I will try and setup the phone next time I prepare the FFs. The frogs have settled but they are being a little shy today. They are coming out but when I approach the terrarium they go undercover. Just need a bit of time.
Pat

At yours, and the frogs, leisure my friend! No pressure, well, not too much anyway :D

[Second Hand Pat]

So these little guys do come out quite often but when I approach they hop into the undercover. I have read that they like to sit at the base of bromeliad leaves and sure enough they are all three sitting in the bromeliads tonight prior to lights out. I'm hopeful as they get use to the time I feed they that they will accepting of my presence. :)
Pat

[Charlyc11]

Would love to see any photos Chuck :D
Pat

Pat here are some of the iguana pictures you asked for in Costa Rica. This is at a park where all the locals give them their fruit they can't sell at the end of the day. So the all come down the trees to eat.

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I don't know who took this picture but I had it in my album.

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[Second Hand Pat]

Thank you Chuck for sharing your images :) The iguanas are for sure ugly and an interesting solution for the fruit vendors. I read iguana's are good to eat but must be well cooked. I think the frog is a Red Eyed Tree Frog and a favorite photography subject, great shot :)
Pat

[brewmaster15]

We had a pet green iguana here. Took it home in a paper sandwich bag . His name was Kirby. That was way befor we had kids. I built it a huge enclosure the basement. Lived for about 15 years and was just shy of 5 feet long. Kirby was cool. During that time we adopted another one .. a very aggressive male. He was fine with me but attacked women.(the reason he was up for adoption! ) Some Iguana males will go after human females.. its a hormone thing. Real interesting article here.. https://www.anapsid.org/iguana/season.html
Not to hijack but I really like reptiles obviously. Iguanas hold a special place in my heart. Very cool critters... just not great pet choices for most people.. get too big and can be a handfull.

[Second Hand Pat]

I have never heard of iguanas going after the ladies Al. I had iguanas as a kid and now if you want one just go to South Florida, they are all over the place. :(
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys are starting to let me move close outside the tank. If I touch the tank or try and open a door, they go hide. It's like having a small window into their world.

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[danotaylor]

They’re so cool Pat. Does their coloration have anything to do with their gender? Do you know what gender your 3 are? Will they bred in a terrarium set up like yours?

[Second Hand Pat]

They’re so cool Pat. Does their coloration have anything to do with their gender? Do you know what gender your 3 are? Will they bred in a terrarium set up like yours?

Thank you Danny and I do not think coloration is gender based. I have an email out to the seller and one of the questions is their age and gender determination. I do know these are older juvies. I think females are larger then the males. I think they could breed in this tank but they need to be two to three years old for that.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

It would be so so cool if you were to start breeding these. How are they shipped?

[Second Hand Pat]

It would be so so cool if you were to start breeding these. How are they shipped?

Same as fish Liz, overnight in a styrofoam (or styrofoam lined box) with each frog in it's own container which has live moist leafs. The frogs need to be kept between 60 to 80 degrees. Over 85 can be fatal to the frogs. Here's a guide on shipping frogs https://saurian.net/froginfo_shipping_frogs.html.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

It's also scary, same as shipping fish.

[Second Hand Pat]

It's also scary, same as shipping fish.

Exactly Liz but not surprising.

[Second Hand Pat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SeADIpDllk

[jimmyjoe]

Wishing you all the best in your next adventure with tree frogs Pat, if it all goes the way of all your past ventures you'll be sell them to Al and Liz I'm sure. Very interesting thread JIm in Ohio

[brewmaster15]

Wishing you all the best in your next adventure with tree frogs Pat, if it all goes the way of all your past ventures you'll be sell them to Al and Liz I'm sure. Very interesting thread JIm in Ohio
Lmao.. Am I that transparent :)

I would love to have some of Pats Homebred frogs.... no question there! I love new projects!
:)
Al

[Second Hand Pat]

Wishing you all the best in your next adventure with tree frogs Pat, if it all goes the way of all your past ventures you'll be sell them to Al and Liz I'm sure. Very interesting thread JIm in Ohio

Thank you Jim but first the frogs have to mature and then have at least one male and one female across the three frogs. When I hear a male chirp I will start researching what they need for breeding. :D If I never hear any chirping then most likely I have all females. Time will tell :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Lmao.. Am I that transparent :)

I would love to have some of Pats Homebred frogs.... no question there! I love new projects!
:)
Al

You are for sure Al and if these guys have tadpoles and you and/or Liz want some, happy to assist in that area. If you think discus are long lived, these frogs can live up to ten years (twenty years in the wild).
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

I wish, but at this point I can only barely handle the projects that I have.

[Second Hand Pat]

I wish, but at this point I can only barely handle the projects that I have.

The frogs are easy Liz (so far) Building their home did take a while but loved the process. Once your terrarium is setup you mist twice a day and feed FF very other day (They do need supplements. calcium and vitamins). You do have to start your own FF culture and still getting the hang of that. I think I will will be able to meet their FF needs with making two new culture every week or so but time will tell.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So this morning I was next to the terrarium and heard this weird little sound. It was one of the frogs calling so I have one male. I made a video with the phone and uploaded it to YouTube. Here's the link (below) as I am unsure how to correctly embed a short. Please excuse the noise from the TV.
Pat



http://youtube.com/shorts/6E-oaqIXSA0?si=2ObrdMzZlZ0OVnV-

[danotaylor]

Very cool Pat. Ole blue legs is a bloke. Who’da thunk it!Bloody marvelous!

[Second Hand Pat]

Very cool Pat. Ole blue legs is a bloke. Who’da thunk it!Bloody marvelous!

Thanks Danny and that is one of three. Remember that they all have blue legs :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So I emailed Matt (guy I bought the frogs from) to let him know I had a chirper (male) and I asked about females. He said that he is pretty sure of there is a least one female in the group of three frogs I got from him. He also said it will be about a year before a female (would be ready) so we wait. That give me time to do tadpole research lol.
Pat

[fljones3]

Pat, I wonder if there is enough room for two males over one female to coexist? If you get another chirper then you might need to prepare another habitat. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, I wonder if there is enough room for two males over one female to coexist? If you get another chirper then you might need to prepare another habitat. :)

Hi Frank, in doing the research on the frogs I checked on which which frogs can live in groups and how big the terrarium needed to be so not worried about it at this time. If I see issues I will adjust as needed.
Pat