Recent Spawning

[Discus_Lover]

I have received a call from my wife stating that one of my four Discus which I have purchased them three weeks ago has spawned on the surface of my filter.
This was bad news for me, cuz I have noticed that I had pair and I was planning to move them separately in quit room since I am keeping them in the hall where a lot of the children's disturbances.

Now after the fact what should I do?
-Should I keep the pair with their egg in the tank (hall area) and shift the other two Discus from the tank. I am afraid if I try to do so I may scared them and eventually they will eat their eggs.

Please guide I really don’t know what to do?

regards ..............Tariq

[fcdiscus]

Tariq, Tose eggs are probably doomed anyway, but on the brighter side, you may have gotten a pair. Set up your new tank with a sponge filter seeded from the tank they are in now, and move them when the eggs are gone, as they probably will be in a day or so. In all likelihood, they will spawn again in about a week, and your likelihood of success will improve. Frank

[Discus_Lover]

Dear Frank,

Thanks for your response.

It would be highly appreciated if you clarify the following points:

1) I am not so much familiar with following words "Tose eggs" "seeded from the tank ".

2) Is it advisable if I but inside the tank piece of wood which it produce the brown color. I heard they enjoy it.

3) Is it necessary to use sponge filter?. I have installed Biolife "wet/dry" Filtration system and to reduce the severity of the water flow I have fixed a hose to the outlet of the filter with so many holes. Will it works.

Best regards..........Tariq

It is better to go to sleep, good night every body it is 02:40am (as per Saudi time standard)
:sleep:.

[fcdiscus]

Hi Tariq, 1- Sorry, I meant those eggs, not tose eggs. I was born inBrooklyn you know-2-"seeded is a sponge filter placed in a tank that is cycled. Leave it in for at leat 4 days-preferably a week or so, and it will pick up the bacteria needed to work in a new set-up. I would use nothing in a spawning tank but for a heater, sponge filter and spawning receptacle. The spawning receptacle can be a red brick. I do not know what you have available in Saudi Arabis but I would stay away from any wood unless you know it is aquarium safe, and then only for a show tank, not a spawning tank. Let me know how you are making out, Frank

[Discus_Lover]

As you have said Frank, most of the eggs were eaten last night and the rest today after noon.
What do think if I move the pair to 20 Gallon, will it be to small for them? I am keeping my four Discus in 35 G tank.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Tariq,
I have some of my Pairs in a 20 gal tank and they do fine. Though I prefer to use 30 gal tanks for pairs.

Hth,
al

[fcdiscus]

Hi Tariq- I agree with Al. Maybe you could move the other two fish out. 20 is fine as a breeding tank, but a 35 would be better. Frank

[Discus_Lover]

I will do that ……………….. Thanks.

Does the Replacement of my current Biolife Filtration System with sponge filter will not make severe reduction of the beneficial bacteria from the tank and eventually it will affect the performance of the Nitrogen Cycle?

[fcdiscus]

Leave the sponge filter in the tank with the other filter for a week to seed it and get its bio filter going before you make the move. Frank

[hanleong]

my friend have just given me a breeding pair of discus and within a week they have already lay a group of eggs on the ceramic cone I have just put into the tank

question
1) As the tank is put in a location with high traffic flow, should I use paper to wrap around the tank, just to make sure the discus are not frightened by my family people looking at them

2) may I know how many days it take for the eggs to hatched?

3) I have noticed, from a distance away, that some of the crystal clear eggs have turn a little more white.. is that right?

4) should I leave the water unchange for the first week (or 2 weeks) after spawing?

5) How long should I keep the babies with its' parents?

Sorry for the many questions.. need help

Hanleong, Singapore

[fcdiscus]

Hi Hanelong- here are my opinions-1-If they felt secure enough to spawn there, they should be ok without covering the tank now-2-the eggs should hatch in 48 to 72 hours, depending on water temperature-3-the white eggs you see are not fertilized-4-I would keep up your normal water change schedule, and5-the babies can stay with the parents for 2 to 4 weeks, and start feeding a very tiny amount of live baby brine shrimps at 5 to 7 days of age. Use an eyedropper ro squirt a bit of the bbs near the babies so they can figure out it is food. You will see a few start to snap at them, and then more and more will feed. When all the babies fill up on the bbs, you can start planning a move to their own tank. Good Luck, Frank

[Discus_Lover]

I have moved the other two discus from the tank, leaving the pair in the same tank. As stated earlier the tank located in the hall area in front of the main entrance. My intention was to relocate the tank to quit area and replace the current (Biolife) with sponge filter but the time was quit short. Nine days after the first spawned they start to clean the surface of my filter where they have spawned before. I thought to help them; I cleaned that surface of the filter with sponge. It seems they didn t like it cuz they have selected different area to spawn (near the inlet of my filter) though it is difficult for them to reach.
I left home that day and when I am back in the evening around 8:00pm she was spawning. I decided to keep the filter working so that I will not disturb them beside I was thinking they would eat them any way. She spawned nearly 50 eggs.
Do you think discus have selected the uncleaned area cuz they like to do the cleaning by them self ! .

Next day morning I was surprise to find none of the eggs were eaten and there were only two eggs turned to white. So the pair was guarding their eggs and I started guarding the pairs from the children not to come near the tank. After 24 hours I found black dots formed on the eggs (believe fertilized). 39 hours later every thing was fine but I do not know what happen, they have decided to eat their eggs.
They do start eating the eggs and before completion 48 hours all eggs were gone.
Any interpretation for that!
I heard the most critical time for the success of the breeding is the first 24 hours.
Is that right?

Regards
Tariq :-\

[fcdiscus]

Hi Tariq- well, picture this. You are a little Discus looking for a place to deposit your eggs. You pick a site, and start to clean it. Then, this giant hand comes in and starts rubbing the spot with a giant sponge. Would you use this spot to deposit your eggs? Neither will the fish. As for eating the eggs after 48 hours, it is better than last time, and they are working at it. Be patient. It takes a while and it sounds like you are doing fine. Let nature take it's course. Frank

[Discus_Lover]

Thanks Frank very clear picture. Now onward I will keep putting my self in the Discus shows ha ha ha .

Regards
Tariq
:coffee:

[hanleong]

my new pair had layed a second batch of eggs (the first was being eaten up)

I did what was pretty obvious to me - to wrap papers around the tank (so as to block them around the human traffic around the tank) and after 3 days, voila! the eggs turn to fries!!

Today's already the 7th day and the fries are already swimming around it's parents. It's a good sight for me!

my question is that what is the best time to remove the paper? How many days to go before the fries will no longer be eaten by the parents?

Thanks

<there are too many topics around! do avoid creating new topics unneccessary.>

[Willie]

Hanleong;

Congratulations on the spawn. At this point, its up to the parents. I would leave the fries with the parents for at least 14 days after they become free swimming. You can leave them longer, if necessary. I've seen young discus left for twice as long and they'll start to feed on beefheart or blackworms themselves.

The danger of parents eating fry always exist. Most of the time it happens, its because the parents want to spawn again. If you see them cleaning a spawning surface, I would separate the parents -- either by taking one out or dividing them with a screen. The babies will be able to feed on one parent or move through the screen to feed on both.

Willie

[Discus_Lover]

Congragulation Hanleong.

How come you did not update us all this time.
May be you were afraid that some one will envy you ha ha ha.
Keep us updated and pray for me that the pair will succeed on their coming spawn.

Good lock
Tariq
:thumbsup:

Dear Willie,

Did you mean that one of the options is to separate the parent from their babies with a screen and every time we need to feed the fries we take them to their parent and then return them back?

Thanks

[hanleong]

hahaha.. well I'm not shy of envy from you guys..

Just that I am not too sure if all will turn out well and that all this while I have got paper wrap around the tank and didn't do any water change and feed very minimal. I could not really make out what's going on inside the tank, when all the while I am standing at least 6 feet away!

Maybe I am just toooo careful but this is my first successful spawn and it's great for me!

I have just finished my round of observation of the fries and I think it will amount to more than 100 pieces!

wonder if I might have problem housing all of them.. will show you guys picture of the spawn..

Good luck to tariq discus!

[Willie]

Tarig;

Some pairs are not successful because one parent may eat the fry. Alternatively, parents often fight to take all the fry from each other. When that happens, its good to insert a divider between the two parents. If you use an eggcrate type divider, then the babies will swim back and forth to feed off both parents.

Willie

[hanleong]

I think I've got this problem you've just mentioned

when ever all the fries swims to the female, the male will turn aggressive and charge / fight with the female.... wondering if there's a good way to solve this issue

btw I've already separeted the male from the female and divide the numbers of fries between them (Is that the right thing to do?)

anyway a pic to share!! :D

[Discus_Lover]

Beautiful. Good luck Hanleong.
:thumbsup:

[Discus_Lover]

Dear Frank,

Unfortunately, again all eggs were gone after 50 hours.
What I have observed especially during the latest spawning process the female laying the eggs and the male away i.e. the male is not side by side with female during this process. I left room to keep them alone even before the female completed depositing all her eggs thinking that the male was not fertilizing the eggs cause my present was stressing him.
24 hours later I noticed black dots on the eggs and none of them were eaten(about 150 eggs) and both partners will take frequent turns fanning the eggs. Every thing was fine. Suddenly 50 hours later they have decided as usual to eat the eggs.
Pardon me for taken more of your time but I am curious to know what could be the reason.
F.Y.I. I did daily 15%WC. PH = 7.2 . KH = 3. W. temp. = 83F.
By the way how many times the discus will continue to spawn?

Many thanks for your usual help and support.
Tariq
:wave:
P.S.
Lately I have noticed while cleaning the plastic garbage the bottom water was rusted. I bought filter to clear the tape water. Has this any thing to do with unsuccessful breeding.

[fcdiscus]

Hi Tariq- No problem. You can also send me a private message anytime. I know it is heart breaking to lose a spawn after so long a wait. I currently have a pair that took over 20 tries to get it right. Now, they are carrying over 100 fry for over a week. Patience. Let them do it over and over for a while, and keep the conditions spotless and the food to top notch quality. If it continues very much longer we will go to other steps, but it is my opinion, the parents need a bit more experience. Hang in there! You are doing great. Frank

[Discus_Lover]

So sweet of you Frank. The frequent rate of My Discus to spawn approximately every nine days. I have no problem to be patient. But my concern is whether what I have is real pair?
As a matter of fact last night she spawned after 6 days resting period. Again during her spawning time the male was away.
My question is there possibility that the male could fertilize the eggs afterward and how long unfertilized eggs could remain uneaten.
Many thanks again
Tariq
::)

[fcdiscus]

Tariq- A lot of times the male is too young and very inattentive. 6 days is not unusual. Females seem to mature earlier as far as ability or desire to lay eggs. Stick with them and keep up your water changes. You are doing everything right. It may be 2 females, but you will not be able to tell until you get wigglers or see both fish lay eggs. Hang in there. The second rule of Discus is Patience! The first is clean water. Frank ;)

Hi Tariq_Discus,

I would say all the info you got from frank and the others is top notch!

I believe you do have a pair and Your Male is just to young.
the only things I would change would be no w/c after spawning untill the pair learns what they are doing.
after spawning I would keep the lights off but the room dim.
if you want to find out if your male is fertile screen the eggs with gutter gaurd. Or remove them and put them into a 1 gallon jar with tap water 3 drops of blue and 1 drop of 37% hyde.

Another big key is never remove a young pair from a community tank after one spawn. it is best to leave them in with other Discus for 5 to 6 spawns or untill they stop eating the eggs. This will also help to teach the pair to protect their spawns and will also help create a stronger bond between the pair itself.

Again! it sounds like your doing a great job if Your getting eggs. keep up the good work it will happen soon.
IMO its a learning experience between the pair they will catch soon.

TakeCare,
Cary Gld!

[Discus_Lover]

Thanks Cary for your opinion/comment and advice.
I did remove the pair after their first spawn from community tank. Since then the pair have made proximally 7 unsuccessful spawns.
Do you suggest that I should return back the other two Discus to the tank?

Thanks again
Tariq
;)

No! just leave them alone for now.

after a few more try's and nothing then I would

HTH
Cary Gld!

[Discus_Lover]

Finally they did it,

After approximately 12 spawning they decided to see their own children. Following are the details of their success and my failure in lessening this success:

Last Thursday evening my Discus spawned as they used to on weekly bases. As I learned I kept them in dim light without any disturbance.
Saturday morning I entered the room to check and found the eggs with black dots i.e. fertilized. This time I had a feeling that the will make it.
When I entered the room on Monday morning after 63 hours I was really disappointed when I found the eggs were gone. I was too upset that day to clean the aquarium. Next day on Tuesday I removed part of the water by hose and I brought bucket to clean the sponge as well using the aquarium water, when I squeeze the sponge in the bucket I observe there were moving objects in the bucket focusing on that objects to found the surprise yes small babies (larva). I do not know why those stupid Discus have relocate their children to the black sponge filter where the chance to see them over there very low.
Any how, immediately I returned them back to the tank.
Because of disturbance that I created beside those who died when I squeeze the sponge I end up with 5 fries only and they are doing fine with their dad and mama.
Did you see guys how bad is my luck.

Special thanks for you Frank of taking the troubles in helping me step by step.
Al. I appreciate your support and patient in replaying my enquiry through your private e-mails.
Cary Gld thanks for your kindness and willingness to assist me even if that will cost you to make international phone call.
Hanleong you did not update us about your couple.

Many thank again for every body.
Tariq
:juggle:

[fcdiscus]

Anytime Tariq- We are all very happy for your success! ;) Frank

[Carol_Roberts]

Congratulations! They will probably eat the 5 fry, but next time you be prepared for a big batch 8)
Carol :heart1:

[Discus_Lover]

I hope so carol, pray for me. But if they did not what should I do?
I am enthusiastic to see the big batch.

Regards,
Tariq :)

[Carol_Roberts]

If they don't eat the fry you should begin hatching brine shrimp. They can stay with parents for two or three weeks and by three weeks can eat small bits of parents food.

I bet the parents lay eggs again real soon for you.
Carol :heart1:

[Discus_Lover]

Carol, I bet you are genius.
They did lay eggs tonight. But the strange thing the fries are still alive (not eaten yet).
Is this normal practice? I mean is there possibility that discus spawn again and hatch their eggs without eaten the old fries?

Regards
Tariq :D
:wave:

[Carol_Roberts]

They'll probably eat the 5 fry :'(
CArol :heart1:

[Discus_Lover]

Update:

I have over 20 fries free swimming since yesterday. Feeding alternation between dad and mama.

Is this number of fries will fulfill the need of the parents so they will not think of making new spawning?

Should I go ahead and resume the regular W/C?

Wish me a best of luck

Many thanks Tariq
:thumbsup:

[Carol_Roberts]

20 babies may be just enough. I chage about 10% water twice a day siphoning bottom carefully both times at this age and slowly add bach aged water. Liuttle fry are delicate.

Carol :heart1:

Carol's a genius!!!!!!

;D :o :)

[Discus_Lover]

Thanks Carol.

I have noticed 2 or 3 fries lost i.e. not attached to their parent. Is this normal?

Do you have any doubt of that Brad?
:argue:

[LETHERBARR0W]

Hey Dude. It looks like you've cracked it !. I myself have woken this morning to find lots of my free swimming fry (missing), but upon further investigation they are scattered around the tank. here are a few recent pics I have taken, My digital camera is not much good but you can see the fish.

Keep up the good work and remember success only comes after many failures with Discus breeding.

Regards

John.

[Carol_Roberts]

Losing 2 or 3 out a spawn is probably normal. I turn the air pump down really low ....bubble....bubble....bubble and keep a night light on 24/7 to help out,
Carol :heart1:

[Discus_Lover]

Now what?

6 days old, I am intending to start feeding them brine shrimps.

- Should I lower the water level so fries could see the shrimps?

- Any alternative food I could offer the fries now or later?

Regards,
Tariq
::)

N.B.
I have noticed the color of the female’s skin turned dark for the past 3 days.
Is this normal?

[fcdiscus]

Use an eyedropper like instrument to squirt a little bit of the BBS at the fry. They will figure it out. Be very careful not to feed too much-especially at first. The female is Dark with slime to feed the babies. If you notice her getting too jumpy, consider moving her out or the babies out when they are taking the BBS. Frank

[Discus_Lover]

Thanks Frank,

For what reason the female should starts getting too jumpy? Or what indication that might give?

Regards,
Tariq
???

[fcdiscus]

Females especially get jumpy for a variety of reasons. They are very protective- from outside sources and the male, they are stressed by the ordeal, they are not producing enough slime etc, etc. You will be able to tell. If she stays calm, great. You seem to have a small batch, so you should be OK. Great amount to learn with. Frank ;)

[Carol_Roberts]

It takes the fry a couple of days before they start to really eat the BBS - about 9 days old.
CArol :heart1:

[Discus_Lover]

Thanks Frank & Carol.

Lets assume the BBS is not available? What should be the substitute in that case? ???

Cheers Tariq
;)

[Carol_Roberts]

They go after live bbs the best - because they wiggle. Do you have any tiny live foods in your area? You can try finely crushed flakes, but it will take a while before they recognize them as food.
CArol :heart1:

[Pick]

Mine are accepting Mike Reeds No BS. I'm feeding it twice a day as a snack between BS. I tried BS on day 7 and they gave it a try. Ate it wholeheartedly by day nine and by day nine they were also eating some No MRNoBS.

TC

[ping]

Hi Tariq,

I feed mine with micro worms, frozen baby brine shrimp, tetra micron, and tetra micropan.
If you cant get BBS, you can try micro worms. My discus babies love it.
Can you get micro worms in your area ? I dont know how to made it. I bought the microworms culture from the local shop and it's really cheap. It looks simple and easy to made. Ask people around, they might be able to help you. You just need to feed the microworms with yeast. Beware, it stinks... ;D

[Discus_Lover]

Carol, TC and Ping,

I am afraid that you misunderstand me.
I am just assuming otherwise BBS is available here.
Any way it is good to now the alternatives.

Best regards,
Tariq
:-*

[Discusgeo]

Tariq_Discus get some BS eggs and hatch out your own Baby Brine Shrimp within 24 hours. Here are 2 place to get eggs and are generally the same price.
George
www.brineshrimpdirect.com/brineshrimpproducts.htm (http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/brineshrimpproducts.htm)
http://sandersbshrimpstore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PLST&Store_Code=SBSC

[Discus_Lover]

Thanks George for those useful two sights. Their prices are much cheaper than here (Saudi Arabia).

Cheers
Tariq
;)

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Tariq:
There is advice on how to post pictures in the photo section at the beginning of the thread.

Basically you hit the browse button. select a picture saved to your hard drive (.jpg)
Click "open" and then post
Carol :heart1:

[Discus_Lover]

I have good news and bad news.

The good news I have attached some recent photos for the discus with their babies and they are doing well. I am not a professional photographer but I think those photos will serve the purpose.
The bad news is as you can observe the wear on the female’s fins. This problem started since one month and it is not improving despite of my regular W/C and salt adding.
Any suggestions?

Regards,
Tariq
8)

[Discus_Lover]

Thanks for the tip Carol

[Discus_Lover]

This picture for their first day of free swimming

[Carol_Roberts]

Nice pictures of your fry, Tariq!

I think the fin problems are a combination of the stress from being a new mother and water conditons. It is so hard to keep tank clean with all the baby food. I bet she is hardly eating too.

I'm wiping down inside of tank everyday and changing water 2 times per day ( 30 - 50% each time, aged water gently added).

Keep a close eye. I think it was Terry cotton that had his female become very sick with a bacterial infection just recently. You will see fin edges start to turn white and look like they are melting if it is fin rot. This looks more like a nutritional problem - fins a little jagged and spaces between the rays . . .

Carol :heart1:

[Discus_Lover]

As stated earlier Carol this problem occurred even before she got the babies.

Before I used to make 15-20% w/c daily. Now I have increased it to 15% twice a day. Is this sufficient?

Suppose I have decided to treat her by adding medicine (General Tonic) to the tank. Will this hurt the fry or will this decrease or disturb the skin secretions?

We wish you a merry Christmas
And Happy New Year
Tariq
:coffee:

[Carol_Roberts]

Don't worry about her fins right now unless it gets worse. Soon you will be seperating her fom the babies and you can get her back to health then.
Carol :heart1:

[peety]

Good thread so thought I'd ask some more questions.

Do I feed parents same amount of food (they don't seem to be eating as much)

Using BBS there appear to be huge piles of bodies piling up on bottom of tank... do I aim small amounts of bbs at parents or dump huge amounts in tanks and expect huge waste.

Do I need to up w/c's?. (the parents getting a bit jumpy already, I have also noticed my glass getting dirty... do you clean all around tank, doesn't it freak the parents?

Ta
peety

[Discus_Lover]

Congratulation peety,

What is the quantity of the fry and their ages?
Show us some photo if available.

Regards,
Tariq

[peety]

I still have about 30-40 fry... but no camera :(

A friend brought over a cheapie but pix so bad they're not worth posting (sigh)

I might get a kodak one shot (I do have a good scanner).

Both parents doing a great job but scrapping occasionally...

I have made recommended changes and all is good .. that is, less food, more w/cs, more air. My bbs is a bit slow in taking off so am scared i have a dud batch :(

I wish I had a good digi, some of the other pics on this site rock....

peety