tip for life! and I mean every word!

#1 lets start by saying Hello to everyone!

#2 Hello! first any breeder in the usa who claims he is breeding all his own stock and is in Big time selling and advertiseing is not honest period.

#3 You would need 5 pairs of every strain just to keep up monthly trust Me.

#4 do not trust any breeder who tells you to throw your discus in with exsiting discus even if he claims all was checked out! this means nothing!

#5 Did you know it takes 1 day to confirm flukes 5 to 6 days for protozoan and 2 to 3 weeks for organism's AKA bac infections sometimes longer and only a guess on what it is or what it closely resembles and how to treat?

#6 Did You know that most protozoan's like cryptocaryon irritans can lay dormint up to 6 months in your tank untill they detect parmones from your fish to attack. also did You know the parasite is only treatable only in its motile phase, before it burrows into your fish or after the cycst burst? So if your breeder checked 1 discus from one tank does not mean all other tanks are the same period.

#7 Did You no there is NO med on earth that will kill any protozoan cysts? and that goes for flukes + eggs to!
Hyde and pp do not kill flukes it only removes them from your fish after that it ecapsulates on the bottom only
to reinfest later? could this be why its the gift that keeps on giveing?

#8 QT is 6 weeks or more no matter who the breeder. cuz of above reason's. we all import he who claims not knows not! or none of the above.
Any breeder who claim's diffrent please stand up I
know were you get your discus am not here to bash am just for the people cuz I been in there shoes.

#9 did You know the Top diagnostic doctors in the USA
cannot even identifify or diagnos over half the new diseases our discus get? some even have know names
Hell even the brightest scientist can't tell me how they built the pyramids. so why would you believe diffrent?

#10 Did You know Your discus would go Black slimmy
lay on the bottom huddel in the corner and even scrach for all these diseases?

flukes
columnaris
chilodonella
argulosis
costiasis
cryptocaryoniasis ( its not only salt water anymore)
velvet
pledge (that I do not believe and is caused by one of these)
shewanella putrefaciens
edwarcsiella tarda
acinetobacter woffi
vibrio cholerae
enterococcus faecalis
viral diseases
fin rot
aeromonas
Oodinium
brooklynella
trichodina
tetrahymena pyriformis
And hundreds of others still not identified period.

My tip for the week is reality every thing posted here on this board is to help you and is only a guess and thats my final Tip.

Sorry but I heard enough crap lately Please cut the Schitt!
you know who you are.
HTH
TakeCare And Best wishes in Your Discus Venture!
Cary Gld

P.s Moderaters of Simply can I get a sticky I helped you All with problems and other things. Its the least you could do!
Just asking?
GLD

[beta]

Cary! Thanx for the tips

Man I hope I did'nt start this ???

if you guys knew the import restrictions for aquaculture fish, it would make most hobbyists re-think their quarantine procedures.

Think about it. when a whole industry is at risk, or worse people from consuming a fish.

The goverment (in Canada) wants you to take no chances.

Why should we? we could either take the proper precautions ourselves, or at some point down the road(and it could happen) have them imposed on us.

another thing we must stop doing is dumping random meds and anti-biotics in our tanks hoping to kill whatever we think our fish have.

that's why a few of these bugs are so strong now.

Thanks Cary, you gave it out str8 up!

[SLY]

good tips cary ;)

[April]

Cary great info. and thread. And i know you have gone to alot of work to get all this info.
As you can see we are all still learning...and will keep on learning.
but makes you think....about quaranting alright.
and i have seen firsthand at one point how easy it spreads like wildfire. i;d never want to see that again!!
i did use separate hoses and tanks...but think just hands or a drop of water was all that was needed. within a few days..i had dark fish upstairs and down. now i know how contagious it is.so...please quarantine.
you got your sticky Cary....and later we can move it to the medical section...
.

[taybelZ]

Thanks Cary.
Great tips for us discus fanatics. :D

[DarkDiscus]

Cary goes off! I LIKE it!

;)

Thanks for the tips!

John

PS I wish I could have gotten this during the interview and have been known for my hard-hitting journalism!

LOL

Cary,

Well put, VERY well put!

But..................
I would like to add one thing.... if I may :scared:.
I recall a post of a pic that you had (?) of a whole slu of imports you euthanized because of questionable columnaris. You went on to say you were lucky they were in a tank in your garage, and not your basement... I believe you were thawing them on the ground.

I would love to print it, and attach it to this list..... to plaster up in my fish parlor. It will remind me to be patient and quarantine the next time I make a purchase.
I can tell you after seeing all the posts, pics and stories on chat I will NEVER just plop them in with my existing stock again. I have been so lucky.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
Not Just Cary.... EVERYONE. !!!!!!!!!

Julz

[Barb Newell]

Good morning Cary. :) Well, I must say, when I read your post it made me feel a little worried about keeping discus (unknown diseases, treatments). But we need to hear it.

Thanks Cary, once again, for being so honest and naming and speaking the truth. Takes courage. Reality is, sometimes your honesty and truth makes us feel very good, sometimes it's hard to hear and makes us feel nervous. But, thanks for both. We need to hear it.

They go hand-in-hand and both are important!

Thanks

Barb

Julz You May! ;)

[daryl]

Cary,
Did you get 1 phone call too many? If you ever need a sounding board , give me a call I COMPLETELY understand.

Daryl

[brewmaster15]

Darn it Cary,

Everytime I think I can't possibly have more respect for you, you go and write a post like this one! ;) ;D

I agree with you 100000000% !!!!!


The lesson to take home is pretty clear for me . Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen ! Quaranteen !

Barb,
Cary's message is actually a good one. Once you realize these kinds of things you can take steps to safeguard your hatcheries/ tanks/ and sometimes your own lives. That said , these kinds of things are not unique to fish, but are a reality in livestock of any kind.

Take care,
al
Ps... well I agree with everything except the gill flukes and PP

Hyde and pp do not kill flukes it only removes them from your fish after that it ecapsulates on the bottom only
I'm pretty sure it kills them, just not the eggs--but there are many more of those than any adults! ;) ;D ;D

i know people who get fish in and out are very serious about quarentine. that is, the fish they have are all quarentined apart from each other. then these fish are shipped out. if the order consists of fish from different tanks, this may be the first time they have been in the same water, when you open the bags and put them into your quarentine tank. well, they may not have shown any symptoms in the wholesaler's tanks, but that doesn't preclude any problems we might have, when we get them into a tank, (after many more hours shipping) and swimming with our own fish. obviously quarentine is the only way we can protect our fish. this is not brain surgery.

great post cary. that pic does freak me out a bit though. i doubt there is anyone who reads these forums who hasn't benefitted a LOT from your great info.

rick

[Barb Newell]

Hi Al, yes I agree 100%. Cary's message is a very good one. I respect him even more for sharing that. What I was saying is that we do need to hear the horror stories b/c we don't QT and that 'slippery breeders' need to be exposed and named, as Cary suggested.

Barb

I agree my brother from another. ;)

Honesty is the best policy. We need to educate...

Come on breeders/Importers Spread the word not the disease. >:( QT QT QT

They are not just fish there peoples pets.


Mike

Have you ever been hated or discriminated against? I have "Eminem" :o

[TOMMY]

Cary does it again! It's so good to know that we have someone like him on our side. What more can you ask for in a person right? I'd rather have the cold/hard truth than some useless bs. Now about that dramatic picture of those babies.... what could have possibly gone wrong! What a waste. I guess sometimes pictures speak louder than words eh?

-Tom-

Cary you read my mind..... Thanks for the out cry......

Mike Never in a million years would I have guessed you are shady's fan....

[Jeffery_Doty]

Cary,

Thank you so much for stating the truth!!

Small time breeders like me benefit from all the hard work and effort you have given to the discus community.

Facts are facts, even small breeders must get their stock from somewhere, and that is larger breeders or importers. So NO-ONE is immune from these problems.

But, most of the time our fish are healthy and happy, and will do great in your tanks. No need to become fearful or paranoid, just aware of the facts so clearly stated by Cary.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I buy discus, I buy from someone who will be honest with me. That way I can be honest with those who buy from me when I grow out my new discus and get a breeding pair that provides me with fry I can share.

Cary walks the talk. Thank you Cary!

Jeff
Oregon

[majesticman]

Excellent post Carry, pretty much says it all.
Bruce

[Surfghost63]

Hi everyone !

What a post Cary, congrats for your help and honesty !!

Huge thanks for the great tips.

Learning the hard way is not good at all, but I've got one lesson already, and believe that Quaranteen is the only way to be sure of the fish health, as Cary said don't believe in people who tells you the contrary, no way, I did (stupid me) and the result was very sad, by the way thanks to Al "The Brewmaster" & his kind help it was a minor disaster, I don't know what could have happened without his friendly advice !

Best Regards,

Bill :guitarist:

[korbi_doc]

:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:
Great job Cary, That's what's called hitting the proverbial nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! & yes, we all need a reminder now & then, So everyone pay attention.........

QUARANTINE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!

Dottie :sick: :smash: :sick: :smash:

[chuck]

Cary..
Let me get this straight.. You say that the fish need more QT then the time they spend in the shipping bag? :o :o .... Sheesh, what next??? LOL
But serious...Great tip! This is coming from someone who took the advise of anyone with 1 day more experience then me as "The Expert".
I learned my lession, and QT everything, Yes (no offense intended) I even QT your nice fish!
Don't let the MOOKs get ya down! :sick: :furious: :gossip:
hang in there....
chuck

[Don_Lee]

Thanks for posting the great information Cary. You converted me last time I was there, I now have a 29 gallon QT setup with a sick discus in there. Hopefully one day soon it will be full of new arrivals!

Don ;D

[Gipper]

Thanks Cary....once again you speak the truth. I sure do hate it when you sugarcoat things though!!!!


Gip

Guess I better get that QT setup

Thanks Everyone! ;D

Brew Your are a great guy To! And Help Tons of People
Everyday.

I know me and you sometimes Do not agree! But Hey thats Normal.

Anyways I have talked to Many of the Veterinary Diagnostic and investigational laboratory Doctors in the usa and most claim What I posted About Flukes And the use of PP + hyde to rid Them.

Here is a quote by doug sweet,curator of fishes, belle Aquarium.

April 2001
skin and gill flukes can be removed by a formalin wdip at ten times the indefinite treatment dosage of 1 rrd per 10 gallons. So at 1 mL per gal for about 20 minutes as a dip,
You must remove the fish after 20 minutes or when stress occurs. unlike wise potassium permanganate dip will also knock flukes off but wont necessarily kill them.

for reasons I stated above in My first post.

IME I find this to be true along with others

HTH
TakeCare Everyone and QT!
Cary gld!

[DiscusRon]

Thanks Cary. I can tell the other folks here, that I just got 4 fine fish from Cary and he advised me to quarantine even his own for 6 weeks as well. Having spent a couple of months fighting a parasite infection and losing 2 of 6 fish, I'm glad to do anything to avoid as many sick fish problems as possible. I would add that we have available to us some very good advice from people like Cary. I also get a lot of info from Discus Page Holland... another great site. It's much easier dealing with problems when you can attack them in a deliberate manner. Thanks to all the experts, like Cary and Fred at DPH, for their help. Kudos!

"I'm keeping my breeding pairs at another place" seems to be a common claim.
Anyway..thanks for the straight info..I've know this for some time and if I want some of the newer imported strains..I've just been buying them from a known importer. Cary..your honesty and all your help here, along with everyone's praise is about to get you a new customer.

Jason'
Sorry Big Jay! great add on! :thumbsup:

Cary.... You never sease to amaze me ;)

All breeders should be as Honest and Caring as you are :thumbsup:

Gotta Love ya :-*

Beth

[redlines]

CARY

Great Post!

I really appreciate the great advice and wisdom you pass along to us all.

It serve as a great reminder NOT to take ANY short cuts!

BTW how much money was that dead & frozen on the grass?

OUCH Forget it I really don't want to know.

Andy

[jim_shedden]

Cary : I think you have to learn to express yourself and don't hold anything in....lol. Thanks for the honesty.

Jim

Cary,
How dare you to stand up and be so God Dmmm honest!
Stop exposing the "Instant Discus Breeders".
You know, the ones who don't give credit to the foreign breeders but rather buys their fish and claims them his own super new breed.

Hey, what about QT the resident fish. The nasties work both ways too.

Good post Super Strong Man.

[gotodiscus]

BRAVO! Cary,
Now hobbyists will be able to know the disease is spreading worlwide not just found in Asia.

Quarantine is a must but I still prefer "prevention is better than cure"

I suggest when buying your Discus you must look for the farm or breeder that the premise is free from any incurable disease.

To import you must look for the exporter who really have the knowledge and quarantine facility not just put a few buckets fill with water behind the house for packing.perhaps,you can check with AQIS who has the export approval from Asia,I think they will be able to give you some good help.

QUARANTINE,QUARANTINE,QUARANTINE!

Q:How do you treat gill flukes?
A:I treat gill fluke for young Discus with formalin with a dosage of 10cc per 100 ltrs.of tank water and adults double or triple dosage for 1 hour bath,after that move all the fish to a new tank with clean water.clean the airstone,airtubes and filter,let the tank stay dry for few days and re-use it for treatment again.

Q:How do you treat them when your discus turn black and squeeze together?
A:turn off the light of the tank,possible cover all walls of the tank with newspaper as to keep it dark,Per 100 ltrs.of tank water I use P.Permanganate with one tiny coffee stirrer of fast food stalls and two capsules of tetracycline for 3 days,on the 4th day add 3cc of hydrogen peroxide/1oo ltrs.wait for awhile then you will find water turn clear,just siphon off the debris and refill the aged water and repeat treatment till they recover.during treatment you must raise up the temp.to at least 86F' and strong aeration must be provided.

Q:How do you treat when all the fish gasping in the air?
A:Normally this symtom is caused by the heavy infestation of parasite in the gill and cause their respiration problem,so,you must not use formalin or any toxic chemical,just increase the aeration with filter and airstones,lower the temp.to 25c'-26c',just add 2 capsules of chloramphenicol and a handful of salt ,no w/c for two days till they getting stronger than you can use the formalin treatment.***I have seen many hobbyists treat this symtom with higher temp. and killed the whole tank of fish very often.
***Tetracycline is no good for treating this symtom as it irritate the skin of the fish.

The above is just my method of treatment,if you want you can make a trial when you next have the problem with your fish.

you use fast food stir sticks to measure pp? why not at least give real measurements?

rick

[gotodiscus]

Rick,
I don't have the small scale to weight it precisely,perhaps,you can use the coffee stirrer to fill up a tea spoon just count how many stirrers can fill it up,rough estimate 1 teaspoon is 5 g.of weight.then just divide it to find out the dosage.
if the water is less than DH 50ppm I can even double the strenth,if DH more than 250ppm it will kill your fish within one hour, that's what I have experienced it.so,make sure you check the hardness before you throw in the P.P,also,the T.Cycline will loose the strenth in high pH and hard water.the effectiveness of it is 6 hours. Oxytetracycline is 12 hours.

gotodiscus??

i assume this is godwin sim?

Now! I see Why Most asian Discus with problems
are Resistant to Oxy And tetracycline.
cary :-X

[gotodiscus]

Cary,
I don't think so,I found the problem that I can't handle is the fish that has been long treating with 1) tranqualizer for netting and shipping.2) toxic chemical in control the diseases at the original farm.

*Information from my friend's quarantine station in Down Under that he got some fish from one of the exporter in our region and he couldn't fix the problem after received the shipment,he sent the fish for analysis at the fishery dept.
The report was:the liver and gut were damage due to the long duration in toxic chemical,so,the fishery guy request me to paid a visit to the exporter and we discovered the causes,after we explaint to the exporter and we fixed the sudsequent shipments.


BTW. Could you please tell us a little about the symtom before those fish laid on your back yard? are they the imported stocks or bred by you?

[Chad]

Hello all….

I have not had any time to post lately, however I had to respond to this.

Cary you’re a MAN!!! Thank you for standing up and doing right!! I have posted many posts about doing business with you and how satisfied I have been…. I guess this just proves what I knew the whole time….. You’re a serious hobbyist with all the best intensions….. I hope this comes back to you 3 fold!!

Chad ;D

Godwin Sim, Please tell me Why THE Hell WERE SICK FISH or fish that were sick ever sent, shipped and Sold??? I know the almighty dollar... screw the other guy... Right? Who was the smuck that signed that health Cert... I know it wasn't cousin IT??? How did that chit happen? Is that how it works were your from???? Damm..this is how the Problem STARTS? I would love to see that report. Or any other reports you have for sick fish at farms in your region. Esp the fish that were FIXED!!!! Please Fax them it to me at 216-587-0025... Show me, I'd love to learn what kind of diseased fish were shipped from your country. If you Dont have report... Send the fish over and I'll have them looked at.... Spread the word not the Disease... EDUCATE

Tranquilizer for netting and shipping... Bull crap

Meds... must be strong chit my friend... Tetracycline... I Don't think so. LOL but who the hell know's if your using a coffee stir or pixy stix to mesure your meds i'm sure its possible.

Or maybe what they saw is Scar Tissue that formed over TB granuloma :-X :o :o :o :o :o


The Important thing is not what the fish in Carys backyard had, but that fact that he had the honesty and integrity to destroy them, instead of passing the buck on to some unsuspecting sole.

Mike

I've got some skeletons in my closet and I don't know if no one knows it so before they throw me in my coffin and close it I'm gonna expose it "Eminem"

[fcdiscus]

Wow Cary- see what you started. Now you got Mike freakin out! ;) Frank

[SLY]

LOL godwin again..we already have the incredible sulk that quit and join again now we have the incorrigible liar..geese. ::)

[gotodiscus]

Mike Wells,
I trying to tell what the breeders using here and how they handle their fish before shipment and not just coming here for arguement,have you seen other asians post to tell what they did to their Discus or they pretend don't know what is quarantine? I learnt my quarantine from my friend's quarantine station in Australia and picked up dead fish to kept in freezer daily to gain some experience and I always say quarantine is a must unlike other asians said I am stupid for doing so,because they just want to express the shipments rather than bringing diseases and treating them in their farm,some of them just bring in the fish in the morning and repack for the evening flight to oversea,what I am telling is the truth,the diseases that you have seen maybe less than what we have encountered here,I am the centreman for the importers to clean and cull the Discus before shipment for they prefer to sell clean fish rather than wasting the space in treating them after arrival.

If you ever import Discus I am sure you know how much is to run the quarantine for six weeks in your country,can you make money if you would to compete with local express transhippers?likewise,we can't compete with other express exporters for we selling higher prices,but,we only deal with exclusive buyers unlike others selling Discus to many importers in the same area or same country,just let them killing each other but he makes the profits,a Jap friend told me he would rather pay high dollars to buy fish from someone than buying cheap stuffs that every dealers have for sales in the same period.I reckon if you now asking for the Discus name like Oriental Dream,virgin red,red melon , Harimau Bintang and twinkle circle spots,I am sure they are many importers in US will tell you they have these colors.

I buy fish from few specific farm they the importers come and visit them and agreed with their qualities,on the shipment we have remarks for breeders,if something found wrong after arrival we will trace the cause or found incurable diseases will cut out the supplies,from many years experiences I got the burnt and felt the pain,so,I am always aware of the supplies not just simply accept the fish,because I have to responsible for the mortalities before shipment or after arrival.

So,many asians dislike me for I telling the truth here,but,some called to told me not to disclose the secret too much for they want to do business,honestly speaking,I oweing to those breeders is just because they ripped me off with their chemical fish with incurable diseases,right now,I still don't make enough to repay them,so,they just spread the rumours that I cheat their money,I understand some of the oversea importers also have the same problem with me,after import few shipments from asia and went broke due to the bad quality fish,if anybody is going to do this business I advise you to think twice,this is a sh!t business and up to the end you get more enemies than friends,so far,I have not seen people doing the import business of Discus getting rich,can you name anybody or you are the only one that made a fortune from Discus import,if so,I reckon you must express.I am now only doing on a small scale as to keep the hobby going ,if someone ask me to do the export to USA I will definitely say NO! because I keep my word with a man in USA.

Lastly,I advise you importers to check the premises of exporters before you place any order or you are the diseases expert swer only in the toilet.

Ya,I seems forget to tell you that I could not send you the report from AQIS,because the importer doesn't want to get involved,but,you can always check with AQIS/Australia, see whether the Discus really have the liver and gut damages from certain countries.

The T.C and OXY I reckon it can be used if you know how to use it with proper dosage provided with something else to help.there is a kind of protein will help a lots.

You know,after I disclosed here I must prepare to receive calls from those express exporters,but,some will like appreciate for my information.

P/S:I will talk to the importer if he wants to know you ,then he will e-mail you.

[gotodiscus]

Sly,
If you can ? please share some of your experience,we all come to the forum just act like a hobbyist ,don't talk about business only learn and share,if you keep trying to use your needle someone will say you know nothing about Discus again.
_______________________________________________

Rick,
To share the experience not necessary to be known,or you only want to learn from the well known breeders,do you know the proverb" Even a thief has his own characteristics"

Let me tell you a joke.
Well,in the first time when human planning to control births by using Condoms,when a female doctor brought the condoms to the village to told them how to use it,do you know what happened?

A villager ask:
Q:Doctor how do we use that balloon?

Female doctor has nothing to demostrate but used her thumb.
A:oh! very simple,what you got to do is just to trap in and unfold it ,that 's it!

But,the man was so in the hurry just grabbed the condoms and went home,never listen carefully.
One month later the man went back to consult the doctor again and asked the doctor why he followed doctor's instruction and his wife still pregnant?

so,the doctor asked him how did he used it and he showed out the tumb and did as the doctor's last demostration.

Who got to be blamed here? hahaha!!!!!!!

Here is an example of using Tetracycline ,normally,I treat Discus with TC only for 7-10 days and stop it,so the next time if others use it again to treat it still can work,I experienced they have the resistant is only you using TC too long in treating them or you use it less than 7 days that is the possiblity for the cause.or I will change other anti-biotics.but,I found those have gone thru Black Disease seldom re-occur except fins and tail rot,perhaps,this is from the high protein food that we made with our own recipe.
so,I hope you people can experiment by your own rather than hear-say.

:D :D :D :D :D

[SLY]

I don't talk the talk godwin..I walk the walk. The difference between you and me is I show the results..where as you just talk and has nothing to show.

Goto!
Oxy Tc is used heavy in malaysia mixed with Copper for all diseases. Well I can tell you this its not working or maybe they know not how to use it!

The Dead discus in My pic were destoryed because they were carriers of vibrio Cholerae. If you did not know this can be given to humans. At the time My wife is 9 months pregant and helps when she can also my 4 year old son helps Me with W/C s. I was not taking any chances.
I can assure you tc would of never cured it! However this was not what was killing them or killed them. (I did) You see these guys had 5 major organism problems And rare protozoan's the sysmtoms were blk slimmy laying on the bottom huddeled in the corner, fin rot and spider webbing. I could of cured all the Discus with Neo! But was not taking any chance's with My family. You know its funny You mention TC! Out of all 5 organism all were Resistant to it! Oxy Too! And this was very true in many of my other cases.
Thailand,Malaysia,Vietnam,ETC.............
HTH
TakeCare'
Cary Gld!

Godwin, I don't believe anything you say. Quit trying to pull the wool over our eyes (USA). I can see right through you... When your not on the Run that is.

The reason so meny Asians dislike you is because you owe them money. Tell us how meny breeders in Malaysia and Singapore do you own money too?

People don't be fooled by this former breeder turned broker his motive is or should I say was $$$

You took fish on consignment from lots of different sources they got sick you felt the pressure from the people you owed money to and shipped sick fish anyway. You felt the heat from both sides and ran??? There is no excuse for these actions. Sure I have never had any dealings with you but the affects from this are felt in our Hobby here in the USA.

You say those fish that go through Black Disease? do you even know what they have? Or what your treating for? Or do you just keep adding meds until you find the right one? Thinking its the black discus disease...Come on man...Go back and Re read Carys original post. What your seeing and describing is a secondary symptom that can be caused by numerous bacteria and protozoan. Your fish are not becoming Immune to Tetracycline. More then likely there picking up other crap like cryptocaryoniasis and others that Tetracycline has no affect on.


I don't want to fight with you either but I refuse to sit back and read posts from people that don't know what there talking about. I will not do that anymore, and my intentions are not to single out Asian Discus as there are some fantastic breeders and suppliers in that region of the world but just like here in the United States or anywhere you got good guys and You have bad guys.


Mike

[gotodiscus]

Cary,
Thanks for your info,from the symtom you mentioned I can fix it with Tc and other combination in my water,but,N.s can't work,perhaps your water condition is different from mine.

______________________________________________

Sly,
I know you always show the pictures of the Discus you bought from other breeders but I have nothing to show,is it correct? frankly speaking,I have enough from the breeders of this region and I say thanks for not visiting me.otherwise,It might happen again like the first time I have my snake skin being stolen by Penang breeder.No bullsh!t! now my fish produce one month maybe yours have to take one year with the same quantity.
Are you the migrant from other country? I reckon you just similar to Mark Tan dressed up nicely but bad mouth for he rang up my friends wanted to do business with them but he didn't know I knew these people before doing business together and started screwed me,as my friends said how could they trust him if they buy the fish from him with problem he will start telling the whole world that so and so the importers cheat him but he never realise he send chemical fish ,who dare to buy fish from a person like that? I advise you if you wish to do business have to learn from the western style.you stick to more breeders here is just like you putting bees on your head, one day you will believe my words.you know,I used to mixed around with many breeders here,I talk about righteousness but they talk about money,let me explain to you why "Penang" this word is so sensitive to me.
well, I knew a first friend in Penang is Khoo,when he in need of me he could all the way from Penang came to S'pore to asked me for help about the packing of tropical fish,but,when I bred Discus he was the one to stopped the Penang Jap in buying my fish.he even asked the Jap's worker Paul to rejected my fish.

#2, is Tan H P,an exporter have no supplies of BKK Discus ,his got stuck the Tiger fish in BKK I helped him to sent out ,but at the end he stole my snake skin Discus.what a BSTD he is.

#3,Teoh,a former taxi driver came to asked me for help in breeding Discus and I got him a backing boss ,but he stole the fish to sold in Penang without our knowledge,the buyer told me about that,you know he was that stupid to said because the buyer gave him the instruction.the second time I witnessed he sold some fish to someone and he warned me not to tell anybody, during the recession in 1997,the backing boss sold away his company EAST WEST ELECTRONICS and wanted me to collect a loan from him,but,this man refused to pay and said that was the loan from two years back,so,I just want to know whether Penang has such a law of not after two years can't collect the payment.

#4,is Goon,this was a shifty BS.Td for I got into his trap,when he was a factory worker and has problem in paying the loan of his credit card ,he asked me to got a Jap friend to buy fish from Penang and he would give me 40% of the profits,when the Jap ordered some fish from him and asked me to kept at my farm,you know what he did? everytime after the Jap left Penang he would bought some different quality fish and sold as what the Jap has viewed with higher prices,sometime he even sent the sicked fish,when I complaint he just said I have the profits so just to accept it ,after that those fish were have a big disaster and died a lot that even spoiled my breeding system for at least six months with no production,I have six workers to run the farm and quarantine expenses ,till the end just closed down,one thing that I was very upset is that when I was in hospital in July 2001 I request him to bring me some money but he never turn out,for more than two years now he never give me the commission.this man he can stand for the JAP to embrass him in front of few people of Penang in the last competition in Duisburg,but he has the thick skin just showed nothing,in front of the Jap he knows how to please him and carry the bags for him when in Germany,but,behind the Jap he squeeze him like the rag.perhaps,the next Duisburg show you people will be able to see him carry the bag again.

To me I have my self-esteem I can't stand for him to shouted at me once and told me few times that he is the first class people,I hate his arrogance. I told my other Jap friends and they said this kind of Jap considered the second class not the true Jap.the modern true Jap are very friendly not aggressive.

So,this is my explaination,hope the rest of Penang friends understand my situation.

Don't attack Sly for your bad business practices.


Mike

[gotodiscus]

Mike Wells,
From your statement you are trying to use my hand to kill the asian Discus,so,using the provoking method to see whether I will drop into your trap,yes,I admit I owe Malaysians some money of sick Discus,but,I don't buy Singapore Discus how can I owe them ?just to advise others(not you) not to follow my step in getting sick and chemical Discus from this region otherwise they will go broke like me.

haha! I just got the email ,very simple,as you said they are some bad people in USA and they want to know how many hobbyists you have ripped them off with your Discus?

When hobbyists buy some Discus from you and add directly to their community tank,few days later the whole tank of fish turn black ? when your customer ask you,will you tell him other USA breeder's fish no good?

First I thought you were the famous breeder in USA,but now you sell imported stocks also,I hope you are lucky enough don't import the viral disease that will stay in your farm forever. I tell you the only way to cure is to kill all the fish and clean all the tanks and let them stay dry for few months before you buy some new fish to treat and raise again,otherwise the fish which you sell to hobbyists with virus will continue to pass to one another.

I have had this in my farm and I killed them all and dried all my tanks for six months,that's why I can't breed and have to buy fish from outside farms. Now they are alright and very soon I can have a mass production.when time's come I will show you how I do it.just wait for my news.

Goto, I will be the first to admit I sell Asian discus. Ask anyone that buys them they know.... I tell them. Were did you think my stock came from??? I am not trying to bring down Asian Discus Breeders I have all the respect in the world for some breeders in your region. You my friend are doing the damage yourself. You have attacked Sly, Mark Tan, meny others and now ME :-*

You now are warning everyone about discus in your region

(quote)
just to advise others(not you) not to follow my step in getting sick and chemical Discus from this region otherwise they will go broke like me.


What I Dont agree with is people knowing selling sick fish its unethical and you clearly stated that's what you did. That alone ruins the hobby for everyone. ITs how all these problems start. The Issues I brought up are with you no one else. Have I mentioned any other names besides your own?

I am glad to see you found your problem and have decided to clean up your act and quit selling sick fish... Good for you :bounce: :bounce2: :bounce: :bounce2:

Mike

Simply I appolgize for this thread going the direction it has. The whole Idea was to inform and educate. >:(

[gotodiscus]

Mike Wells,
Today is our moon festival here and I have a few drinks,maybe lost of control and spewed too fast in responding you,now we are even and hope everything is over.

I agreed with you there are some good breeders here as well as everywhere in the world,but,I hate those who sold me the bad fish and still claimed they have the good quality fish and try to rip off others again,it is unfair to do so,and I just to give an advise for others to chose their reliable suppliers.

Regarding Mark is a back stabbing expert,so,I hope someone will inform him that I am saying here,he has to understand why I got moody for he only listened to one side and just anyhow bad mouth me.

Sly is a bandwagon jumper,so he prepared to deserved the screw.

Now we are 3.oo am in the morning,so,catch you back later.

Gotodiscus'
Sorry You are right! oxytc + Tc are intermediate with Vibrio cholerae. this tells me that triple doses must be used! this also tells Me in a few more years you will stop useing it Because it will Cost you to much to treat! Swiching from a coffee stir to a soup ladle. BUT! like I said For the other 4 Organism's TC +oxy were Resistant!

Anyway's My problem has nothing to do with the malayisa Discus. the pic of the dead discus come from thailand However I do agree with You on the liver problem
and Granuloma's something is going on,went on, still on!
Am not sure.

IME + IMO ETC..... I do not Believe in Plague or What you Call black Discus Diseases. Like I said Before when discus are sick they turn BLK and do so for a Varity of things!

TakeCare'
Cary Gld!
Maybe we could trade faxes? and learn more!

Yes Cary I agree.

IMO Discus Plague is nothing more then a widely used term that was coined to a wide spread bacteria infection with discus and angel fish. At the time the availability of diagnostic labs, knowledge of disease and Aquaculture was still in its infancy... compared to what it is today. Now were finding out!!! Commercial fish farming has increased the demand for diagnosis and treatments that's were the money is coming from. The tropical fish industry is just a drop in the bucket.

I'm starting to think that one of the biggest problems is third world country's not having the ability to find out what's really going on. That's just my personal speculation I could be wrong, but its still no excuse for shipping sick fish and the ones from Thailand to have 4 different nasty's come on.

People if your fish are clamped, dark or slimy Dont yell plague or shout Columinaris there are meny things that cause these symptoms. Better yet save yourself a bunch of greif and qt qt qt.

Over the last year I learned quite a bit. Much of this has rubbed off from you know who. Your quest for knowledge is something else. I think this guy could carry everyone in this hobby on his back. ;)

Mike

PS: Goto feel free to e-mail me at mwells@adiscusdream.com

[discus4me]

I was gonna buy a few discus and thow them in with the ones i have, But i read this post 3 days ago and decided to get another tank to put the new discus in. I dont know if you saved my 8 month old discus or not but
THANKYOU.

Cary awesome article!!

Why does the USA not have inspectors over there at the exporters places and pull samples from all fish that are " Ready For Export"?
The broker has to be held accountable and so does his suppliers. And before any batch of fish can be exported to the USA they must be tested (cut open), and health certs. furnished at the airport customs, (air carrier), and importer and broker on this end also recieve the copy of the cert. The fish have to be cleared through a known Fish Dr., not brother Tom or John but a State licenesed vet. And that has to be done before any fish can be shipped. As Follows:
Breeder orders fish from importer #1.
#1 must get ahold of the US inspector and he/she must pull samples from the batch that is going to be shipped.
Labels and marks so that it can not be tampered with and sends them to US Vet to cut open and run test on.
Then he/she sends back results and fish are either shipped or destroyed. A US agent must be present upon watching fish be destroyed. Then another batch is pulled for testing and if they clear the order along with health certs can be sent to breeder. Breeder upon arrival pulls a sample and sends in with a copy of health cert and waits for results. Once cleared then Q them and move em on.
If the broker fails on any of the points then he/she is restricted from exporting to the USA.
All up front money is put in a trust so that the fish MUST CLEAR the USA before they get paid.
Yes it seems like alot of trouble but diease free fish is what you pay for and that in turn is what you should get.
And I agree with Cary and Mike they HAVE TO BE upfront and no games. And tell us what drugs you are using so that we can have some sort of an idea. It is hard to fight a diease that you do not know is there.
As always the savings will be passed right along to the customer. If they can not play by our rules then guess we do not need your sick fish!!

IMO
Miles

P.S. I hope that this does not offend anyone as the intentions were not to.

[gotodiscus]

D 4 M,
If you want I have a suggestion for you to try,just set up another tank to quarantine the new fish,I don't know whether your existing fish have illness before,just try to take out one old mate and add to the new ones instead and see what happen after 4 to 10 days ,you may have the answer either the new ones knock the old mate out or old mate has got the gold medal and cover the new ones with black blanket,maybe both are cleaned and break even.

FYI,your water is different from mine,so you have to trouble your own folks in your area ,see what are the medicines work better from their experience.

[gotodiscus]

Miles,
It is too late for the disease has been long imported in your country and spread worldwide like AIDS,the only thing is to find out what is the actual cause and prevention can be made.but,don't mistake to use a balloon to trap your thumb. just joking ;D ;D ;D anybody here can find out the promoter to stimulate the T cells in the Discus body?



Cary,as long as I found any farm using live tubifex ,bloodworms,mosquito larvae and daphnias,I will stay away regardless of where they come from,I reckon using home made fish food will cut down the risk a lot.also,with our experience we can't bring the microscope to check the fish from their farms and tell them too much as the prevention that they might come back to squeeze me out of business one day for I have got the experience from the past.what I have to do is try my possiblity to observe the symtom of any fish I can find at the farm with my naked eyes,if something found suspicious i would just cancel the order rather than swear later.because now I have to responsible for the mortality .

Any farm that claimed only using salt and W/C to run the farm will just be a joke to us,as I said before common diseases no problem,toxic chemical damage no hope and viral diseases can be control but re-occur chances can be happened on and on.

[Smokey]

You know.. alot of comments are posted here... none of which I, and perhaps many of you reading this post, have not heard before...Oh yes, different names, but the same old story, over and over again.. As I read " between " the lines, I see an all to common problem... !
" inferior product " ! " unscrouplose producer "! " uninformed consumer " ! By nature, people are good; by greed, people are not so good...

To protect myself, I become informed, before I buy...just reading posts on SimplyDiscus, DAAH, DPH, etc., I have learned an incredable amount about the tropical fish merchantizing "methods "; I have also breed and sold many different species over the years, dealt with the average person and the wholesaler..

BOTTOM LINE...REPUTATION...REPUTATION...REPUTATION... nuff said ,

Smokey

I would like to thank all who have posted their expierences...its does make things easier for myself and others..

Small correction off the topic.
Just lurking and should of minding my own business but I would like to express an opinion. I would like to apologize if my comment is depicted to be distorted. Never could hold myself back from saying things the way I see it.

Mike, no disrespect Super Star!
The first honest guy with the integrity to lay it all out and claimed to deal with Asian discus didn't actually say he was the first, but we know who he is.
You are by no mean in my list of "Instant Breeders".
But I have to give you the credit and put you in my list to be THE SECOND most honest "Discus Guy".
Take it or leave it but I just see it that way.

Ain't nothing wrong with Asian discus. Just got to adjust yourself to the second wave of discus fancy, thats all.

Peace.

[SLY]

Sly is a bandwagon jumper,so he prepared to deserved the screw.



So you mean whoever that disagrees with you are on the bandwagon godwin? which bandwagon are you talking about? BTW PENANG is not the only states in ASIA mind you so before you speak..check the map. All those people that you have mentioned that screwed you have nothing to do with your statement on Commando training and the other BS you spilled..not even interested in who is carrying the Japs bag or vice versa..wait till u have a clear head before you start coming back with irrelevant BS again.

I don't know, I have seen Mr. Godwin pour out a lot of crap over the past year and a half, but mostly it was his english I guess, he does seem to have some insight on what he is talking about, I do get a feeling like discus buisness is like the mob in asia, hope I am wrong....

P.S- Hope you aint the one selling that mysterious colour changing discus..... Now there is a no brainer con crap.....

[gotodiscus]

Sly,
The reason why I disturb is just because I don't like those snobs in Malaysia and Singapore,remember you ever asked why I have to pissed off from Singapore? doing the business who never have creditor?owing money is an art of business,if they don't trust me how could they gave me the credit?after 911 I am sure there are many Singaporeans and Malaysians scratching their heads or being sued ,but,it doesn't mean that they can't re-start again .from my observation those who go everywhere to bad mouth me are worry I might come back to compete with them,that's normal in any kind of business.maybe one day I will go back to Singapore to compete with you.hahaha!!!!!!!!

Talking about asian Discus diseases I just want to share with hobbyists about what I have encountered,to warned the importers is just to remind them to be more careful not just import blindly,did I ever said don't import totally? if you are doing the exports and you know your fish will not have the problem ,why must you grumble? you see Mr,Yeng of Penang he realised that he could export good quality fish and he never say a word and he doesn't back stab me,if he did it could had come to my ears now,you must take him as an example.if I am going to import some fish I will buy from him no doubt the prices are a little bit higher.

[gotodiscus]

Anand,
I guess you are an Asian descendant,probably from India,tell me if a lady don't make up how does she looks like ?so,she has to do it daily to keep attraction,when you purchased any fish that changed color you must enhance it again,fool Tambee.

I am not specialized in color discus ,but I do have some black Discus all the time,if you interested I will send you for free.

[Ryan]

This thread has gotten too far off-topic. When Cary posted, I doubt this is what he intended to get for replies. What has gone on between Sly, Rick, and GS at DIP can stay there--this is not the place for it. You all know the SimplyDiscus rules well by now. April has been editing posts here because of name-calling and mud-slinging, but people don't seem to be taking the hint.

Rick, I do not appreciate your private messages to April. You left once before on your own because you were upset about being censored, yet you come back and start thrashing into people again just as you did with Dave Clubine months ago. It should come as no surprise to you that you would be censored again--our policies have not changed. If you are unhappy, that is not the moderators' faults. You chose to come back to Simply, even after criticizing us over at DIP.

As for the rest of this thread, the "commando training discus" and war of words between Sly and Godwin can stay at DIP as well, as far as I'm concerned. If our members are interested in any of it at all, they can read more at DIP as I am sure it's all laid out over at that board.

Cary's topic will remain unlocked because he wanted his message to be read, and I see no reason in letting him down because of the petty slandering by a few others. Just know that this post is being watched carefully and the moderators will edit things that are not relevent to this discussion.

Ryan

look ryan, i said what i wanted to say to april by pm. show some class, don't rebuke me where you are just going to edit me. here are my messages to her.

'thanks for editing that message april. i had forgotten why i stopped posting at this site. no warning, just chop, chop, chop. i can understand why you chopped the 'mental hospital' bit, but his 'commando training' and his laughing at people who lost a lot of their stock from showing at duisberg, because they were not commando trained, may have been forgotten by some.

have a nice day, see you around.

rick'
'april, you have edited my last post here. either you ban me, or you leave what i wrote. you guys are obviously together in the editorial nature of this board, and many many things go unsaid here. you decide what passes for info in the discus world, so have you can this board.

i see no purpose in YOU deciding what i can say or not. i was merely pointing out, what gs is well known for, commando training fish. he has espoused his theories on the subject many times, and some here have probably not heard about this. sorry you do not agree with what i have to say, and whether i have the right to say it.

and if you think that godwin sim is not ready to be in a mental hospital, then you should do a search for posts by betta, beta discus, gs, godwin sim, and now gotodiscus, among other names, in the forums.

rick '

are these the messages that you object to?

rick

[April]

No. Rick maybe it was the second one.
OUr only point is if they need to read the commando trained part...it is on the other forum to read. Cary had intended this to be eduacational...and whether "Simms" or gotodiscus had poor practises or not..he has seen stuff and he's trying to show insight... into some of the practises. practises that we also have here in North America. its no longer asias problem...its the worlds problems . and all breeders now need to be extremely careful. and buyers need to beware ...and alot of breeders or brokers are selling imports and if things dont change...the whole discus market may be seriously affected. gone will be the days of easy import . England has banned tropical fish from Thailand and Australia has very strict import rules to protect them from things like cary saw. Cholera etc. gone will be the days of low priced discus. to get a new strain in Australia.. you pay very high prices as all the costs of the quarantine and government inspections are added into the costs.
I think gotodiscus is right...if your looking for boxes of cheap discus to resell from Asia...you may be getting boxes of trouble. you need to do research and deal with people with excellent reputations. Also pay a bit more for clean healthy stock. and...do the quarantine...and learn about the meds and get your fish tested instead of just dumping meds that they are all getting resistant to. Cary now sends a few pieces to a lab to be tested now to make sure thier clean...before he resells or mixes or breeds etc. only way to protect yourselves from having pictures like Cary posted . or spreading it to the next hobbyist who has a tank or two of beloved discus. they get sick...thier devastated...lose interest or get discouraged etc. i had a virus ....and i can tell you...its not just the money , its the time and commitment and pride you had in your discus that is all gone. its devastating to see your beautiful fish laying all black on the bottom .
i think this is the message that Cary and Mike want told here. not about history repeating itself here from Dip.
we would like to leave this thread here stickied like Cary had asked us to do...but we dont need a new battle or name calling stickied here.
hope you undertand.

To start off....I'd like to apologise to the mods, the admin, the members here, and most of all my friend Cary for adding to the crap that should never have started here....feel free to EDIT AT YOUR WILL! CAUSE I'M GONNA CUT LOOSE!!

RICK.....do you have something wrong with your head?? Are the simple, basic rules THAT difficult for you to understand?? As Ryan stated...you left once because you didnt like THE RULES....you went elsewhere and pissed all over simply.....then, to my astonishment (and others Im sure) You show up here again.....and whats even more astonishing...is you start up with the EDITING AND MODERATING CRAP AGAIN!! And I see it took you a grand total of about 20 minutes to start another "Piss on Simply thread" over at DAAH. I havent checked DIP yet...Im sure you'll follow suit and start one there also though.
You know...its not so much the fact that you show up here and make posts that need to be edited.....its your *****ING WHINING AND CRYING after it happens that makes me want to puke.
Its REALLY simple actually.....if you dont like the rules....Fu.........go away!! FOREVER!!

You "forgot" why you left here the first time.....ya..thats a good one.

Again my apology's to all......edit, delete....or whatever you see fit.

Tony

[April]

Tony :cowboy:. where have you been. we've missed you. ;D
How goes the fishies in your nice fishroom ? Did you hear Glenn found a nice clear "tank" that was a display tank so one could see the workings in a plumbing store here in Vancouver? It would work well in your theme of your fishroom . the self water changing tank we talked about in chat. ;D
Could you make sure you check in from time to time so we know theres still a Calgarian discus phenatic about?

ttyl April :bounce2:
I did my quota of editing for one day...i"ll pass to the next mod. Let then decide what your fate may be. :cowboy: :whip:

[trilinearmipmap]

Like many others I have read these boards the past while wondering whether to get into discus, after years of keeping other fish.

This makes me wonder about it.

Not the bickering and arguments part, I have seen that enough on other boards to just tune it out and ignore it.

But the possibility (or probability) of my discus carrying one or more parasites is enough to warn me off.

Anyway I have a 75g plant tank I am setting up, I plan to let the plants get established for 2 months or so. I was trying do decide whether to put discus in it or not. The likelihood of parasites/infections is a concern especially because these are much more difficult to treat in a planted tank.

If I keep discus in a bb quarantine for 2 months, is it standard practice to treat with anti-parasitic or antibiotic meds even if there is no sign of disease? Or is it recommended to just observe and only treat if there are signs of illness? With parasites, they may be dormant or asymptomatic in a fish for some time, that is why I am wondering about treating without any evidence of infection.

Anyway I am also curious, on a percentage basis, for an average discus keeper following good practices (proper stocking ratio of gallons per fish, frequent water changes etc.) roughly what percent of the discus would come down with a serious protozoal or other infection? Is it infrequent, about 50/50, or most of the time? Just wanting to get all the facts before I dive in.

[April]

Trilia......
there is really not a problem with what you want to do at all. If you get clean healthy discus from a breeder who is careful....and you have just your one tank of fish and you receive them all at the same time...i wouldn't worry at all.
its when you have some then you add 2 here , 2 here, and another from this guy you need to worry.
most people who have had problems..are people who have many tanks and get new shipments in from new sources. if you dont quarantine and use separte hoses and wash your hands thoroughly etc between tanks...etc. you could have problems.
i say go for it. you won't regret it. especially with the reading your doing and learning. and we;re all here to help you.
no...you wouldn't want to treat with meds when you get them. just clean cycled tank and good steady parameters and water changes and all should be fine.

Cary and Mike,
I applaud the both of you for bringing your insights to some of the issues here.You guys, no doubt are pushing the envelope and will be great breeders for years to come.

Gotodiscus,
I want to thank you for shedding MORE light on a clouded issue(viral disease and importation of discus from asia). Although I do not import discus from Singapore or Malaysia, I have on occassions, imported from Hong Kong, not for resale but for my own collection. Your warnings will be held in high regards the next time I place my shipments. Thank You again..

Roundhead,
I have always given credit to the Asian breeders for their innovations and dedications in discusdom. They have shown the world the beauty of this fish and have broken many molds in their quest for perfection. To them, I also say thank you ..
All the best...peace..

Phil..

[paul_burney]

Well if you would all keep these posts for all of your family could read them we wouldnt have these problems here that we have in this post. i dont know all that has been going on dont want to. But cant you alll just get along its as bad as a couple of little kids going at it. JEZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!

[DenverDan]

Can someone pm or e-mail me and let me know what in the heck is going on with this thread? Being somewhat new to discus I have no idea what is going on or who all of these poeple are.

e-mail at ddolan34@attbi.com

Do I need to ask each breeder who I buy from if the discus are imported or bred from there stock? Should I stay away from imported discus?

Thanks in advance

DenverDan

[Gipper]

Denver,

All Cary was trying to say is that quarranting new fish is a necessity. A fish can look and act perfectly healthy...but be a carrier of things that can quicly cause problems if it is added to existing stock, or be infected with something that may manifest it self at a later date. Caution and common sense is all he was trying to pass along. Not sure why the rest of the crap showed up in this thread, just the nature of the medium I suppose.

Gipper

Hope this dosen't get burried in the rubble, Gotodiscus, if you are in fact Godwin, I probably have more respect for you than most in these forums, but for the life of me I can't understand what you are trying to convey to me, yes I am indian, but now live in the US, What I meant about color changing discus was, recently I have come across someone selling a new strain as they call, as a chameleon discus, that is what I meant, not an insult, believe me if I wanted to insult you, you will know...hahaha!! Just asking... Later.....

[jouniv]

Eels have a "mucus sloughing disease" (sounds like plague does it not ?) that has been studied in China by The Freshwater Fisheries Institute of Fujian Province. Authors found Vibrio cholerae the causative bacteria, and it was resistent to chloramphenicol, tetracycline and spectinomycin. An Italien group studied over 300 ornamental fish samples mostly from Asia, and one of the most common bacteria was Vibrio cholera/cholerae. As far as I understand, the bacteria is not responsible for the epidemic cholera but can cause intestinal symptoms in humans.

Perhaps a vet could share more light whether this particular bacteria has been studied in "discus plague" cases.

Jouni

[gotodiscus]

Jouni,
They found the Vibrio cholera on fish species,but,they don't tell where they attached from?

Is it a possiblity that come from the polluted water where the asians collect their live food? if yes,that means not only in asia alone using live food for their tropical fishes,please tell us for just a little bit more will be very much appreciated.

Discus plague is just something like Herpes Simplex virus,on and off very often on the beginning stage and eventually just dimissed. I read the HSV from the book and just to make an example hope you don't mind. Have you seen Discus first time got their plague were squeezed together and taken longer period to cure ,for the subsequent re-occur they just turn black and recover very fast ?

[jouniv]

Yes live food can carry also this pathogen

TI: Title
Chironomid egg masses and Vibrio cholerae
AU: Author
Broza, M; Halpern, M
AF: Affiliation
Dep. Biol., Fac. Sci. and Sci. Education, Univ. Haifa, Oranim, Tivon 36006, Israel, [mailto:broza@research.haifa.ac.il]
SO: Source
Nature [Nature]. Vol. 412, no. 6842, p. 40. 5 Jul 2001.
IS: ISSN
0028-0836
PB: Publisher
Macmillan Publishers Ltd.
AB: Abstract
Cholera is a severe diarrhoeal disease triggered by a toxin produced by specific biotypes of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae that are pathogenic only to humans. There seems to be no chronic state of the disease and the natural reservoir of the pathogen is environmental. Here we show that egg masses of the non-biting midge Chironomus sp. (Diptera) harbour V. cholerae and act as its sole carbon source, thereby providing a possible natural reservoir for the cholera bacterium.

Come On gotodiscus'

STOP! It with this discus Virus! No one here in the USA has documented any such Thing! Only every other thing known to man and Some Not! However Virus is very true and real.
But not as commen as You make it out to Be. Hell Even dropsy is considered a Virus This does not mean the Discus Keep it for Liife. Do you have any Proof of Your Statment!
Like lab reports Etc.. Books say alot and Many Guess what they Got! but I do not Believe. You see technology is way ahead Of the Game Now! How could some strange Diseases
wipe out all Discus, Angles Etc... Around The world? And never be documented or seen again? IME I have Not QTed
50 times or more. 20 times I swear My discus Had Plague. All 20 times it was something Diffrent! and cureable! I just find it Funny That someone like Me who has Been into Discus for 18 years Now! And has Imported Many strains for breeding stock and sell. Also Stock from Many diffrent country's + USA With 20 occasion's of Outbreak and Dead discus That never tested for such a thing! (myseryious Virus)

My Point Is!
Many people can get together and think they have the SameThing! But untill I see it in writeing then I'll Believe.
TakeCare'
Cary Gld!

P.S
Thanks Gip For The Suger! hee.hee.hee

YES its in the Food!


The source is water not live food! Anything liveing in the water drinking the water is inffected. we allready strayed ENOUGHT!

[brewmaster15]

I am locking and moving this thread to the disease board I have received numerous complaints regarding its tone, and I know this was not the way that Cary wanted this to go.

I am Sorry Cary.
-al