help needed dark and itching!!!!!!!!!!!

[discus_fan]

Something is iritating my new discus badly.For about one week now discus have been itching more and more.here are my water parameters,ph stable 7.6,amonia 0,nitrates zero,30 percent water changes daily increased to 50 per. when itching started,17 discus between 2 AND 3 inches in 75 gallon tank.These are new discus so I've kept temp at 90 and salt 1 tbs per 10 gallons.The symptoms are1.itching quite regularly,slime coat seems to be affected by itching2.some are rotating from dark to normal,some stay dark.3.some are hiding the healthier ones still swim around.Since they are still new,I did not want to panic and medicate,but am considering cause I have had discus adjust better then this.I did feed some metro flakes x3days to see what it would do.I called 3 vets to see about flubendazole in case of flukes,but no luck.I am hoping someone will respond quickly so I can go to lfs to get meds if needed.They are still eating,even some of the dark ones.what I need is some advice on something I can get from lfs for immediate relief,seems shopping on internet will take some time.I am going to set up bug free tank with dip ethod mentioned in disease and sickness,but will need time for cycling.I do'nt think any are near death,just something bugging them.The ones that hide still bicker with each other and eat,and still doing discus things just extremely irratated.Any help will be greatly appreciated. sincerely Will

[fcdiscus]

JMO- I would bring the salt level up to 1 tbsp per 2 gallons, and temp down to about 85. This should give some relief. Probably a bacteria problem brought out more from stress. If you medicate, I would recommend Neomycin Sulfate at 1/4 tsp per 20 gallons with a 50% WC every day for 6 days. Day 7 and 8 cut back to 1/8 tsp per 20 but keep up the 50%WC for another week. Wipe down the tank and clean all of your filters everyday. HTH, Frank

[discus_fan]

thanx fcdiscus,can I get neomycin at pet store?Also,can I clean all filters without hurting biofilter? thanx for your advice Will

[OEG]

Thats my buddy Frank, i knew youd say that good job.
Oscar

[fcdiscus]

Neomycin will kill the biofilter bacteria and all the bacteria in your tank. The 50% WC for a week after treatment will help to bring it back. Aquatronics makes the Neomycin in capsules. Use their dosage per 10 gallons, but use it everyday like I wrote in the last post. I got this prescription from Cary and it is probably best to do all your tanks, like I just did. It really wipes out alot of problems that you see crop up here and there. It is a hell of a lot of work, though. Frank

[fcdiscus]

Thanks Oscar! SALT, baby, SALT. ;D Frank

[discus_fan]

Thanx Frank I'll keep you posted Will

[Tin Pusher]

I have a similar problem Wil. How are you doing?????

[discus_fan]

Hello Tin pusher,things are looking good.Am using antibiotics as recomended,lots of water changing and cleaning,and alot of salt,currently 8 tablespoons to 10 gallons,which is more then recomended.Based upon recomendations from a new friend via e-mail,I can use this much salt for at least 14 days,then I should cut back.As discouraged as I was this treatment seems to be working.Their skin has healed,no longer itching,colors have lightened up,and most importantly no more headstanding, laying on bottom,or hiding.Unfortunately I was unable to find neomycin,but am using marycin 1,for 5 days,and marycin 2 for five days along with a ton of salt.Not sure which one is helping the most,but things have definately turned around.These discus are tough,and I have high hopes for that light at the end of the tunnel.I am still a little concerned about their appetites,but their still eating.I'm sure this has something to do with medication.What sort of treatment are you doing for your fish,and are you having any luck?Let me know,and good luck. sincerely Will

[discus_fan]

Tin Pusher,I forgot to tell you I am also using maricide,which can be used,according to instructions,concurrently with marycin antibiotics. Will

[Tin Pusher]

I am using salt (2 tbsp/10 gal.) and there was no improvement. I am still with the salt but have started adding Seachem Paraguard as per the instructions (1ml/2 gal.). Overnight there was a huge improvement but recovery slowed a bit today. Not happy with the instructions on the bottle. Repeat daily as required for as long as the fish show no stress. What is "as required"? Does the stuff dissapear after a day or am I increasing dosage with every daily addition as recommended? What about water changes, should I replace lost amount? We shall see how they do over the next few days. Keep us posted Wil.

What form of Neomycin Sulfate are you using in 1/4 tsp /20 gal?. Are they in solution or in powder? what's the concertration? Neomycin comes in so many different forms. You normally find them in eye/ear drops 3.5mg in 75ml. oilment for the skin. How do you get it. It's readily available in over the counter drugs in disguise. They're Dexemthasone. A corticosteriod sometimes you use on your kids skin allergy.Also in puffers for asthmatic and COPD patients. They come in so many different forms. I won't be surprise most of us already have it in our medicine cupborads and don't even know about it.

Jimmy.

[fcdiscus]

Jimmy, I use Neo from Fla Tropical Fish Farm. It is a similar but pure form of what is in the Aquatronics capsules. Tin Pusher and Will, it is the salt helping your fish, but you are using the wrong antibiotics. You may be saving your bio filters, but you are really wasting both time and money as the bacteria you probably have will not be killed by Maracyn, Maracide or Paragon. JMO. Frank

[discus_fan]

Tin pusher,I am told salt must be at 3%(at least 3 tablespoons per 10 gallons)before it really starts fighting.I was nervous at first about using all that salt,but my fish are still doing good after 5 days with 8 table spoons,so surely you could experiment with a little more salt.At least 3 tablespoons per 10 gallons or as much recomended by fcdiscus.Do'nt be afraid of the salt man,build it up slowly,maybe some in the morning and more in the evening.Also is seachem paraguard,for parasites or bacteria.Hard telling whats bugging our discus.I do believe bacteria is an issue with mine because of how well they're responding to antibiotics.The amount of itching they were doing parasites were definately a suspect,could be both.I think cleaning and water changes have helped alot too.I can see they seem to feel good after water changes.I do'nt think salt is a cure all but it seems to help build up their strengh so they can fight on their own.If I were you I would be prepared to fight parasites and bacterial problems.The marycin products seem to be working for me,marycin one with erythramycin,for gram pos.bacteria(things on the outside)marycin two for gram neg.bacteria(things on the inside.)I also use the maricide which can be used at the same time with marycin antibiotics,to help with parasites.I've only been keeping discus for one year now,and the biggest thing I've noticed is,if they are fighters they'll make it.Imo its best to dissolve salt in the water you have for water changes before adding to your tank.As far as the medicine goes with the type I'm using I put meds in the evening after water changes,without worrying about replacing yesterdays dose.I can only say this is working for me so far,maybe someone with more experience can jump in and help.Good luck and keep in touch. sincerely Will

[discus_fan]

Hello fcdiscus,discus have shown great improvement.I'm hoping salt is'nt temporarily holding up whatever is bothering them.All I know is they look better,skin healed up,colors lightened up,and no more itching.Lfs did'nt carry aquatronics,and unfortunately all I got was a speal about how antibiotics are soon to become illegal to sell in pet stores because of people bringing them home and giving them to their kids.I,m cycling a new tank with fishless cycle,and hoping to move them over soon after cycled. thanx Will

[fcdiscus]

TP- Will is right, do not fear the salt. I have used it a 1 tbsp per gallon with no harm done. Will, Great. I hope the combo of Maracyn, Mar 2 and maracide works. Check out the on-line catalogs for your future antibiotic needs. Frank ;)