Crazy Behavior

[kevster]

I could use some advice here, I searched for previous info but I didn't find any answers. I have a full grown blue diamond and 2 medium size straited reds in a 29 gal tank. I have a water softner so the water is very soft with a ph around 7.2 I am sitting there watching them along with my other tanks to try and see some signs of some of them pairing up. Well for absolutely no apparent reason the 2 medium fish started darting around the tank like crazy. For about 20 secounds these fish went ballistic, banging into the sides of the tank, doing summersalts, and one of them swimming completely upsidedown for about 5 secounds. They both lost 1/2 their color and were blotchy and one lay completely on its side at the bottom of the tanks and the other one lay against the filter. I fiqured they were both dead but about 5 minutes later they started swimming and now they are back to normal. A couple of weeks ago in a different tank I had a similiar discus spaz out but he died. It was like they had a panic attack. Any ideas will be appreciated.
Thanks Kevin

[RAWesolowski]

Kevin,

First thought, you may want to check your hardness and dissolved solids. GH should be 1 - 3 degrees and KH should be about the same. A low KH (below 3 dgrees) has little buffering ability and could crash PH. TDS should be about 300 ppm.

Second thought, would be that behavior occurred soon after a water change. A marked increase or decrease in PH or temperature would affect them.

Third thought, were you watching them in your underwear?

[RAWesolowski]

I found this thread in the library that discusses problems like yours:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=1023;st art=0

[rfidiscus]

You said that you ran your water through a softner... as in water softner?

[kevster]

I do have a water softner and and I have to add discus buffer to keep th ph at around 7. If i don't it will goto about 8.6. The behavior didn't happen right after a water change, thats why I find it so strange. I went down to my fish room and sat down with a cup of coffee looking thing over when it happened. I didn't startle them or just turn on the light or feed them or anything. They just freaked out. I have raised discus in the past using water from a water softner so I don't think that is the problem but maybe it is.
Thanks
Kevin

[jeep]

We've been discussing water softeners in the water section recently. I don't know if this would contribute to your problem because I'm have a similar problem with my female and I do not use a softener.

But, if your softener uses salt to soften the water, you could have an extremely high sodium content in your water because when the softener removes the calcium and other minerals, it replaces them with sodium. Some buffers will add even more sodium.

Just a thought...

[korbi_doc]

;D ;D Kevin, I run my water thru a sofener with salt; sodium does indeed contribute to the problems cuz the TDS is over 850ppm after the softener. I now use 100% r/o to compensate & it comes thru at 50-60ppm. (When I added this high sodium tap water to my r/o in my original fish group, I lost several, so I do believe this is deleterious to discus). My ph after the softener is low, ranges 5.2-5.5, & after the r/o is 6.8-7.1 most of the time. My fish are happy in the water I'm using now, reconstituting with the CaSO4 recipe to a TDS of 200ppm & I feel things are much more stable.
BTW do read the threads in the water section 'bout water softeners, there are 2. good info. lol Dottie ::) ::) ::) ::)

[kevster]

Well i think i can safely says it is my water softner which was creating all my problems. Over the past weekend with the heavy rain here in NY i decided to collect some rain water. After I got about 90 gallons I filtered it through a diatom filter and did a 25% water change 2 days in a row.
Not only do they act 100% better, I had a female lay eggs although the male? just ate them.
Thanks for the info
kev