Blue Diamond Origin

[BLUEKNIGHT]

Hi
Just wanted to know if anyone can tell me the origin of the blue diamond. Like where it was created and how long ago. Thanks. ;D

[fcdiscus]

I am pretty sure it is a cross developed from a Cobalt and Ghost, butI have no idea who came up with it. Bet anything, Cary does! ;) Frank

world wide fish farm claims that one I think,
late 80's early 90's

[BLUEKNIGHT]

THANKS YOU GUYS. :)

[keno]

Hey, what ever happened to Marc wiess? Did he fall off the discus world or what?

Ken

[rsawest]

Ken,

I'm curious to know too. I think at one time he was associated with World Wide and Lo Ying Wat (Sunny). Is he concentrating on his products now?

[Mike_T]

BlueKnight,

Here ya go:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=1302

Mike T 8)

[John_Nicholson]

Marc Wiess?????

Isn't he over in China studing ????

-john

[fcdiscus]

Marc was a great Discus guy who sold out for some bullspit products that do mostly nothing. Too bad! :-\ Frank

[BLUEKNIGHT]

Again Thanks you guys. Plus i would have to agree with frank on marc weiss.

I dealt with Marc in the late 80's when I was a total newbie to discus and bought a few fish from him. He is kinda like Cary, Mike and Tony P. except without the personality, common sense, patience and willingness to help that these guys have. I remember trying to get a few Blue Diamonds from him right after their pictures first started showing up. It was not a pleasant experience. Hey..but I'm not bitter.

[rfidiscus]

Blue diamonds were deleloped by lo wing yat of world wide fish farms... Marc Wise was never a breeder... I visited him in 1989 in NYC and he had his importing settup with about 35 or so tanks in an apartment there. No pairs just lots of 2-5 inchers. The blue diamond supposedly came from there super brillant discus... actually I know that it did because I bred the super brillants and came up with a small percentage of blue diamonds from them.
TLM

Dear Tom,

Am sorry to inform you but they did not come from brilliants.
if You are seeing Bds in your brilliant spawns then what you have is brilliants with bd blood.


Many breeders crossed the bd into their strains loseing the bd on f1 but to only gain it back by inbreeding the young.
lets say some one crossed a brilliant with a bd all the fry would be brilliants with some solids with bars.

Now you have them and breed them and this would be why
your now seeing BDs.

The Bds came from solid colbalts and blue covers which happen to be the first name for bds.

However You are right about Mr lo Wing yat from Hong Kong Showing the First Bd and selling it. But he did not create it! What he did was improve it. And so very much!

What happen was he started to see tranparent fry from blue colbalt spawns. After that he saved them for line breeding + inbreeding.

Then when Mr Lo had a perfect solid blue Discus with No bars Him and Ng ching Yung Brought in the wattley blue turquoise and the german Colbalt turquoise there laying the foundation for future improvements of the BD.

Again Mr lo Wing Yat was not the only player with the Bd
Strain at the time. In 1992 penang discus breeder Mr. kheng huat Also discovered some transparent fry from his cobalt discus.

In 1993 these discus were then brought to Aquarama singapore by mr. khoo his neighbor. he then priced the bds at $500 each US which caused a lot of impact among the japanese traders.

That also moved the malaysia discus trade towards the BD
discus and caused the Hong Kong BD price to increase 3 times in 1 month.

Also at the same time in penang a glass buiness man mr. Hock and Mr. phang teck another businessman in kuala lumpur also noticed that they too had some transparent fry from their cobalt pairs.


Therefore they were also key players at the time.
the first breeder to breed red eye bds was Mr lee koon yen
from penang.

Now Mr lo was first but others were seeing the same thing happening in cobalt spawns around the same time.
Some of Mr Lo's other Creation's that were in high demand that were cross bred with other types to obtain these strains were the red diamond, tangarine dream, And red spotted green.

HTH
TakeCare,
Cary Gld!

P.S Sorry For posting I know I have alot of emails and Im's
to reply to. I also have some Discus to judge on Chads board. I swear I will get to them all real soon. I been a little under the weather with a very mean cold :-\

[fcdiscus]

I told you Cary would know! Boy, does he ever! :o Frank

[April]

Cary......SORRY for posting? we all just had a very imformative lesson on bd.
now...could we have some more history lessons soon?
Better watchit...you might end up with another category to run. Carys discus history section. ;D
now..no more ims for cary. he has posting to do. LOL.
Hope your feeling better cary. dont give it to your baby.!!

[DarkDiscus]

Cary,

Feel free to play history professor or geneticist any time! I love this stuff!

John

[BLUEKNIGHT]

Hey cary thanks for that lesson. ;D

[Wahter]

Cary quoted some of that from the book, "Malaysia Discus" page 29. The book also has the background/ origins of these strains:

Golden pg 27
Ghost pg 28
Snakeskin pg 30
Rose Red pg 32
Leopard Snake Skin pg 33
White pg 34

Nice book, profiles a lot of discus breeders in Malaysia and their fish and it's in Chinese and English.

Is this book in April's library yet? :)

Walter

[rfidiscus]

Btw, I recieved my super brillants from Marc weiss... I believe they were ww22... anyway maybe they weren't pure super brillants at the time... who knows with those fish... The first pair of blue diamonds(actually 2 pair) went for $10,000 not $5,000 each. It made a huge stir and most doubted the price... In aquararama magazine for 1991 they gave Mr. lo great praise for the blue diamond... Marc Wise claims that sunny created it... not refined it. My pair of super brills gave me around 5% of blue diamond babies that I raised up in 1992. I received a translated fax from Lo wing Yat in 92... telling me of his crosses that he used. The super brillant was the refined product of the blue cover... rebreed and rebreed until some of the pairs... I believe 2... produced these translucent fry(the blue diamond) If wwff didn't create the blue blue diamond, they sure as heck capitalized on them( babies for 100's each and pairs for $10,000) And back in the day they sure had everyone convinced they produced them... I am sure it is the same with many strains. Put out a genitic line that has the potential to create something new, several produce this line and then you have peope wanting to be the sole creator(GOD)

[rfidiscus]

ps... the tangerine they created was nothing like the tangerine of today. Look back at TFH from sometime in the 1990's... I recieved some of them and they were basically like a nice red turq... kinda like the red diamonds.

Btw, I recieved my super brillants from Marc weiss... I believe they were ww22... anyway maybe they weren't pure super brillants at the time... who knows with those fish...( WHY IS THAT MOST TOP NOTCH bRILLIANTS BREED TRUE! )The first pair of blue diamonds(actually 2 pair) went for $10,000 not $5,000 each.( TOM I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT A BREEDING PAIR. WHAT I DID SAY WAS THE FIRST BLUE DIAMOND DISCUS SOLD AT AQUARARAMA FOR $500.00 EACH US 2") It made a huge stir and most doubted the price... In aquararama magazine for 1991 they gave Mr. lo great praise for the blue diamond... Marc Wise claims that sunny created it... not refined it. TOM AGAIN! NO ONE (CREATED IT! IT WAS A RECESSIVE GENE THAT HAPPEN TO SHOW UP IN COBLAT SPAWNS. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME) My pair of super brills gave me around 5% of blue diamond babies that I raised up in 1992. I received a translated fax from Lo wing Yat in 92... telling me of his crosses that he used. (IF YOU SAY SO! PUT IT IN WRITEING HERE.) The super brillant was the refined product of the blue cover... rebreed and rebreed until some of the pairs... I believe 2... produced these translucent fry(the blue diamond) NO TOM THE BRILLINT OR BLUE TURK WAS USED TO REFINE AND IMPROVE THE BD STRAIN. AGAIN THEY CAME FROM COBALT SPAWNS. AND COLBALTS CAME FROM BRILLIANT OR BLUE TURK SPAWNS.) If wwff didn't create the blue blue diamond, they sure as heck capitalized on them (I DID SAY THAT) babies for 100's each and pairs for $10,000) And back in the day they sure had everyone convinced they produced them... I am sure it is the same with many strains.( I AGREE TOM ) Put out a genitic line that has the potential to create something new, several produce this line and then you have peope wanting to be the sole creator(GOD) ( I AGRRE ON THIS TO.)

ALSO THE TANGARINE THAT MR LO CREATED IS THE ONE YOUR TALKING ABOUT. IT WAS A CROSS BETEWEEN A WILD ALENQUER X RED SPOTTED GREEN. NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PB FORM.

LIKE WAHTER SAID I QUOTED SOME OF MY INFO FROM MALAYISA DISCUS 1. GO READ FOR YOURSELF TO MANY INVOLVED IN THIS BOOK FOR IT NOT TO BE TRUE! I ALSO TALK TO MANY OF THE TOP ASAIN BREEDERS. AND FROM WHAT I HEAR MOST OF THEIR STORY'S ARE THE SAME AND STICK TRUE.

CARY GLD!

[April]

all sounds right to me....the way i understand genetics.
i know one breeder i know gets a certain amount of cobalts out of his turquoise spawns. a small number. ;D
thanks cary for the lesson. i know you've done a ton of research..and talked to many many knowledgeable asians.

[Denny]

thanks for the info, cary. there is never too much info on genetics as far as i am concerned. now, i am wondering where the yellow base on the angel b.d. is derived from? also, do the regular blue diamonds show yellow on their pec. fins and tails like the angels do?


denny