What's killing fry?

[Michael61]

After allowing my pair to eat about 20 of their spawns over the past year or so I've 2x tried raising the fry using the artificial method posted by Brewmaster. 1st batch made it to the free swim stage and then fell to the swimming in circles thing which I understand was bacterial infection. I now use spectrogram (which is effective against gram negative and positive organisims) at the recommended package dose in the tank water that is used for the water changes. Last batch (that I resuced as wrigglers when mom and dad started swallowing their bretheren who were wondering from the spawn site) made it very well for about a week. In fact I still have a few remaining in the dish - but what seems to happen now is that every morning I find one or two floating dead with swollen stomachs. They never show any swimming difficulties, are eating their frozen BBS well and look fine when I turn the light off at night. I also do my last feed around an hour before lights out, let them eat and then do the water change into a fresh dish for the overnight so there is nothing to deteriorate the watr quality for the overnight. Also, they get the same treatment - fed, water change and then about 8 hours alone during the day so it does not seem to be length of time between water changes causing the problem. It almost looks like they just eat too much! (somehow I don't think that's it!). They are getting fed BBS only, 3- 4x day, full water change each time, air going 24/7. They made it trough the egg feeding stage fine and were on bbs for about 2 days before they started failing.

Any ideas what could be doing them in?

Thanks,

Michael

[Richman]

Stop turning the lights off at night.

No, seriously.lol I don't have any experience in acutally raising discus fry as my reds just won't stop eating the eggs, but I have wondered about nighttime, eating, and bloat. I know that metabolism slows down as activity slows down. That is true in most of nature. When we eat large meals and go to bed we gain weight. I understand that sumo wrestlers who want to gain weight eat large meals and then nap. I have wondered for some time whether feeding fish just before turning out the lights might cause them to grow faster, or in some cases impair digestion. I know I have heard some say that after a nighttime feeding with certain foods, fish will be bloated in the morning. It would stand to reason that if that were the case with very young fry, it could be quickly fatal. Maybe this is not true, but I have wondered about it. Maybe someone who knows more might have some input.

[darcy]

Deja vu or what!!! the same thing happened to my fry!! Hopefully Al or Jimmy or someone will post an answer for us!!!!
Darcy

[brewmaster15]

Hi Guys,
First off on the lights. Jack Wattleys method as i recall, called for turning the lights off at night. I never do.

Michael. You are using frozen BBS....? Are you hatching those yourself or using the store bought ones from hikari or other? If so hatch them yourself. and freeze them in a zip lock bag. so you can break off chunks to feed. I feed mine live, but freeze them so that I have a back up incase the bbS hatch fails.

Be sure you do not have too much BBs is there, especially if you shut the light. Jack's method calls for removing them at night I believe. What I have seen happen is too much BBs and they consume too much oxygen= fry death, or they settle to the bottom , and the fry get smothered as well.

Use Furan-2. Other antibiotics may be too harsh for the fry. This is only needed for the 3 days they are egg feeding., after that its not necessary.


check your ammonia. You'd be surprised how fast it can rise in dish with too many fry or dead BBS. If possible main the pH below 7.0 it keeps ammonia in its less toxic form.


Be sure the water changes are done with tehsame pH and temp, and do them as often as you can.


hope this helps,
al

ps... when you hatch the BBS, rinse them with tank water before feeding. I use a paper coffe filter. Thi gets rid of the bacteria that may be growing in the shrimp, and it keeps the dish water conductivity down.

[kokebon]

Hello brewmaster,

Your information was very helpful thanks!!!

I do have a question though. While on the Furan 2 3 day treatment, do I still need to change water everyday? if so, how many percent?

thanks

Kokebon

[Rod]

Hi Michael,

Try the night light for the fry to reduce losses as the others guys have mentioned. If this is not possible for whatever reason, then make the last meal for the fry to be all finished 2 hours before lights out, this gives the fry plenty of time to properly digest the food before they sleep and should help prevent the losses you are experiencing.

Rod

[Michael61]

Thanks all. Still one left! I always move them to completely new water and dish (same source as previous) at night so I would never think that there could be anything in the water to contaminate overnight. Perhaps there is something about a night light even with no organics (other than the fish and whatever minimal waste they produce) at night? Yes, I am using frozen BBS - San Fransisco Bay brand I believe. I've been using such minimal amounts and not leaving any in for more than an hour at a time without a major water/pan change that I did not even think to rinse them.

Next spawn, I'm planning to remove the male and give the female a shot solo (male failed with his solo attempt). If that fails, I'll try the artificial method again with the night light live BBS and Furan-2.

Thanks.

Michael

[brewmaster15]

Hi Michael,

San Fransisco Bay brand--- fouled my water fast ! If you look close at it with a magnifying glass, they are mostly pieces.... go with the LIve BBS and it should help!


Kokebon-- for the 3 days on egg food, you need to cahnge with every feeding , at least 3-4 times a day. The furan just buys you time , it doesn't replace the need!

hth,
al

[kokebon]

Hey Brewmaster!!

thanks for the tip. My question is how do you suspect the fries being sick?

here is a pix i took today. Do they look sick to you? haha....

I am only feeding them bbs 3 times a day and water change daily. No furan has been used yet, i have only used antibiotics and some salt.
any suggestions? let me know how my fries are looking?

thanks again

Kokebon

[darcy]

Kokebon
how old are those little guys? Cute little bugger's aren't they!!
Darcy