help with pairing!

[limige]

warning this willl be long and confusing!! lol


k, i had a pair of pigeons pair up last spring and the female started to lay eggs. but the male has never to this day made runs with the female, just helps to clean and guard. first time they left the eggs for 3 or 4 days till they fungused, then i pulled the eggs out and cleaned them off the lift tube. after that they began eating the eggs before the second day.

this was all in a community tank so i move them into a 30 for awhile with same luck. once i caught the female eating the eggs after the light came on the next day. i've tried leaving lights on in the room overnight and that didn't help.



so recently i've bought new fish and after quartine moved them into the comm. tank with the others. much fighting, mostly my pair causing trouble.

so i pulled out the male of the pair to see if she'd pick another mate. and she began flirting with a red turk so i pulled those two out and put them into the 30 gal but theyve done nothing so far.


after pulling those two i put the male in from before and he paired with a blue turk i recently bought. she laid eggs and they ate them 2-3 days later, i never saw her lay them so i don't know what the male did this time.


help i need suggestions, there are many others that should be old enough to breed now but i don't know if i should pull the pair or what.

i thought about pullling the blue turk (female) and put her with the other female and male in the 30 and see what my first male paired up with next. should I?

and why won't he fertilize? the females sure seem to like him?!

it is quite possible that that is not a male and is instead a female!!!

[Carol_Roberts]

I have two big, beautiful PB males that do exactly the same thing. Clean the cone, stand back and watch the female lay eggs, then lovingly fan and guard them for days and days. None are fertilized. Neither males even attempts to make passes over them.

I'm pretty certain both are males. They love the known females and fight with other males including each other.

Apparently fertilizing the eggs isn't the fun part for discus males ???

Anybody ever had males like these suddenly figure out their role in procreation?

Carol :heart1:

carol:
that's like saying that human males don't like sex.....but really, really enjoy changing diapers.... ::)

[paulmat]

It's been my experiance that the males take a lot of learnin ;)
The pair I have on the pic section(RSG/Marlboro Fry) spawned probably a dozen times before he got it right :P
I think you should just let them practice,as long as your sure thier a M&F. He'll get it right sooner or later.
Paul :guitarist:

[Lynn]

Carol,
I have the same problem...nice red PB male that watches/guards/cleans but doesn't make runs over the eggs. They are still in a community tank. I've divided the tank, still the same thing. I plan on moving them to their own tank, but thought I would wait until next month in hopes that I will see some wigglers.

Sorry limige, no help here. But would love to know what others think.

[jeep]

Well, I've always had th4 opposite problem. My male always makes passes but the eats them. On the advice of a couple of people, I treated for flukes this past week. I was told that the medicine would ruin the eggs inside female for the next spawn. The male made pass after pass and then feircely defended the eggs for 5 days.

What I'm trying to say is that several people from this forum with a lot of experience have told me that a male will not do his job if he feels he can't do it properly or is threatened by an infestation of parasites (other than the lack of maturity).

I don't know but I've never made it this far before...

Jeep: You've got it right. usually is the parasites that irritate them and is most likely the course of the male eating eggs. Whatever you do, you do it for the male only. Not the female. they do nothing just to laid eggs. It's all up to the male to get it right. the correct PH where the sperms are most active to acheive the best fertilization rate. Any CEESOB I have. I use a very dominant female who can control him from eating eggs and teaches him how to fertilize eggs, and use antibiotic to kill the external parasites that irritate him. Minocycline (Maracyn)?? or Minocine.(Maracyn II) Both are Tetracycline base. med that you can get from LFS.

Jimmy.

[jeep]

Jimmy, you were one of the ones I was refering to. Thanks for the advise. The reason I treated the female as well is because I noticed rapid breathing out of only one gill. I treated with Fluke Tabs, which seems pretty hard on the fish, but not lethal and is only a 48 hour treatment.

The biggest difference I have noticed it the male is so aggressive now. I hope he mellows out...

Brian

I usually Formalin to de-fluke both of them before spawning. It doesn't break the spawning cycle of the female.

Jimmy.

[limige]

jimmy, is that more for egg eaters or could that be the cause of my male that won't make runs and fertilize? do i give up on this male? give him and a female their own tank again, or leave him in the community tank?

[limige]

oh and brad, i'd say he's definitely a male cause this turk is the 2nd fish he's paired with that laid eggs with him.

every now and again i'll catch him pointing up like he's going to make a pass but then he'll turn and swim normal.

i've updated my pics in the photo gallery for those interested.

Limige: Your male is probably too young. Give him a few more chances before writing him off. Best leave them in community tank and let them sort it out by themselves. They often switch partners by themselves and find themselves the most compatible mate. After you've got the first successful spawn, then you can choose and switch any partners you like with them. I often use them to train the new blood. You can easily get fry from the first spawn female if you have an experience male as her partner. He'll teach her what to do the first few days as free swimmers. It's hard to pick for them at the learning stage. They'll end up to be bad parents if they're not comfortable to the environment or partners. Don't do anything until you see the male passes over the eggs or the eggs stays amber for more than 24 hours. Then you can invest your effort to them. Otherwise, you got nothing but frustration. Sometime revese psychology works. Tell them you don't want any fry now. Unless they can proof themselves worth your effort. Just sit back and relex and show them who is the boss. They have to please you, not vice versa. Life will be a lot easier.
Have a nice day.
Jimmy.

[roger]

Jimmy
That seems to be the approach I have been forced into with my fish. I dont want them laying eggs since I just dont have room. But the pair in the main tank just laid eggs for the second time in as many weeks. They did look better at the 12hour point this time than they did last time. Ill see how they look when I get home.

Enough about the problems at home, from what I have seen and been told a good male is what your looking for. Seems he has the hard job so if he proves out take care of him.

[limige]

hmmm ok.

now my other problem, i've tried to put all of them together but my pair tends to stress out the others. particularly my bd. if you check my pics out my bd colors up nicely when a female full of eggs is near but my pb male makes it his full time job chasing my bd around the tank.

it eventually got to the point my bd stayed in the corner and wasn't moving much. which is a total shame, my bd is bueatiful and my pb female doesn't show any bars so i think they would make a nice pair, maybe rose reds and bd's for kids?! but the pb female doesn't seem to like him much. bummer

[EthanCote.com]

Hey Limige,

If your BD is under too much stressed his immunity will be lowered and that is an open door to infection.

So watch him closely and if neccessary, remove him or remove the pair.

Only reason I brought this up was becuz one of my fish was bully to the point of stress that allow disease to infect him.


Cheers,

Chi.

[limige]

actually i did both, i seperated my orginal pair and pulled the bd. tried to force a pair between the bd and female but it didn't work.

so male was reintroduced to the 190 and he paired with the turk female. and bd got his own tank for awhile. i'm getting ready to try putting him back in but right now i have two active females, a blue turk and a pb and one male that like the both of them.

i'm trying to make peace and get some babies!

[saints27]

One of the most important things I have learnt from breeding discus is that you need to have is patience.
Give them time and they will work it out ,continually moving them around will just stress them out more and make them prone to infections

Jamie