Water Life

[boxlotfish]

Randal: Have you discovered anything new about my Water Life stuff yet? How long does it stay in the water or is it filtered out by bacteria?
Loren @ boxlotfish.com ::)

[Ivan]

As in Waterlife products, ie Myxasin, Protozin, Octozin etc...
Very biodegradable. All their products are. sorry for butting in.

[boxlotfish]

Ivan: Where did you see the "Water Life" products? When I picked the name it was a matter of looking on Yahoo for any other names.
Water Life Suppliments that I produce are different from what you mention here. I certainly don't want the name to get confused with any other products. Do you have a different name I can use for my product if this one is already taken? Loren

[Ivan]

Hi loren, I've no idea what i've gotten into here. haha.
Ok, in the UK there is a company called waterlife, they manufacture Remedies for fish ailements, test kits, vitamin supplements and black water extracts.
What are your supplements? Can you give me more info?

http://www.waterlife.co.uk
This is the website, it doesn't seem as though they have made it across the pond yet so you could probably use the name.

[RandalB]

Loren,
I have been using the waterlife product for about 2 weeks (14 Water changes) I have yet to notice any difference in the fish's behavior or color. As far as conductivity or effect on breeding, I have not noticed any changes yet in breeding behavior and conductivity is increased by the product. Ph is not effected in my growout tanks due to higher Gh and Kh, Breeding tanks Ph is reduced slightly by the product due to low Kh. I will continue to use the product and will publish full results when I have them.

RandalB

[boxlotfish]

Randal: Keep on using it and how much is the conductivity/pH changed? Everybody has different water in their tanks so as much info as I can get is good. It looks like I might have to change the name so I need a name that has focus on the properties. I thought you are the water expert. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ::)

[boxlotfish]

Ivan: How about the name AQUAHUME? It comes up with nothing on Yahoo. ;D

[Ivan]

Ok but what is it? Is it a product you have designed? What does it do? What is it supposed to do? Is it just one product or a range? Can I have some more info please?
Ivan

[boxlotfish]

Ivan: See: http://boxlotfish.com

[boxlotfish]

Ivan: New name "AQUAHUMIC"

[RandalB]

No one said I am a water expert least of all me. I am a R/O equipment specialist by default. I'll publish the complete results when I finish the test run

RandalB

[RAWesolowski]

Loren,

Wanted to read more about your product but the text on the black background makes my eyes swim... in a bad way!

[boxlotfish]

Thanks Bob, I will see what I can do. An alternative page or printable page might work. I like the printable price list we recently installed. All it would take would be a link to another identical page with different colors. Loren 8)

[boxlotfish]

OK, How is the Black and White version on your eyes?http://boxlotfish.com/catalog/catalog/more_news2.php 8)

[dm]

This is very interesting reading. Thanks for posting the link.

:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

[fcdiscus]

Exactly!!!!

[Aquatic_Design]

Frank & Cary behave yourselves. ;D ;) ;D

Cary, Check your e-mail please. :)

Donna :)

[Richman]

C'mon now guys. There is a purpose for everything. If it is packaged right and the weight is right it might come in handy for throwing at stray dogs. I have quite a few around here and I'm running out of rocks.

Richmond LMAO



Mike

[redlines]

JMO :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

WOW :o I was just over read'n at Jedds...oops, I mean Joes...THIS STUFF CURES THE PLAGUE!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOoooooooo ;D ;D ;D Finally.....something that cures the "PLAGUE"....who knew?? ::)

Tony

It'll cure you of 7.99 +S&H also...

[fcdiscus]

Uh oh- I feel a lock coming on!

[boxlotfish]

Tony: I don't know if it cures the PLAGUE but my friend says it cured his Angels. The Plague is a powerful killer and I would have a hard time claiming a cure for something that nobody even knows exactly what it is. I hope it does. I lost over $2,000. Worth of Altums this year because of the Plague and I have known many an Angelfish breeder or Discus breeder go belly up over it. The only other potential cure is as Whatley says 4.0 pH for a week. Who can do that? I have purchased Asian Discus and eaten it every time and then I find out from Marc Weiss that the Asians have used Humic Acid for a long time. :P

[RandalB]

Don't worry all,
Were going to keep this one clean and nice. As I said, I am doing a test run with this product and will report the results when it is complete. I Fortunately don't have any fish with the plague (Or any sick fish) so I can't vouch for the medicinal properties of this product. The effects on water chemistry and TDS as well as the effect on my fish will be noted.

This product does make a lot of claims, we'll see how it goes................

RandalB

[boxlotfish]

Thanks Randal: I can't survive without it in my fish room now. I have gone for 15 years and heard all the jokes about Marc Weiss products but this one I came up with before I discovered today that Mark has the same basic product in his KetaPang Vital. I wish I would have known about his product sooner. Now I have $400.00 invested and a great give away for my regular fish customers. It cost me $4.00 just to ship it by its self but it is very easy just to slip one into a box of fish. If it helps my customers fish survive I am all for it.

Marc Weiss :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X


Come on guys lets keep things real. Plague.... LOL

some never learn... some never will


Mike

[boxlotfish]

Mike: Some call it Discus disease and some call it Angel fish disease but if you ever loose 100 breeders within a week then it is called Plague. ;D

Did you have any of the fish professionally diagnosed? I have read numerous reports over the last few years and not once did I see the name "plague" "Discus Disease" or "Angel fish Disease" mentioned. Why???? because there is no such thing. These are all common names that people coin to the meny bacterial and protozoan problems there fish may have.

Below is a list of just a few that all cause the same secondary symptoms.....please let me know which ones you think your product helps.


flukes
columnaris
chilodonella
argulosis
costiasis
cryptocaryoniasis
velvet
shewanella putrefaciens
edwarcsiella tarda
acinetobacter woffi
vibrio cholerae
enterococcus faecalis
viral diseases
fin rot
aeromonas
Oodinium
brooklynella
trichodina
tetrahymena pyriformis


Mike

[RichieE]

Did i miss something or do we now have a product thats looking for a reason to exist? Rich

[boxlotfish]

No wonder the disease section is so lame. I hope you never have to deal with the Plague. It pretty much involves all of the above diseases and then some. It is like an immune deficiency that allows all these other diseases to exist. Yes, I am an expert and I have had many other professionals involved in the diagnostics process. Please take any disease questions you have to the proper section of this board.

tis true....water life won't do much good if your fish are dead w/ the plague...big black pits under their arms...er.....fins, etc...

[RandalB]

I see that I need to check the board more frequently.

This thread is in regards to the "WATER LIFE" product and it's use as an RO/DI supplement or water conditioner. Loren from Boxlot introduced this product and asked for people to test it. I took them up on it and purchased 2 bottles of this product to test it as such.

The Original thread is this: http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=4689;st art=0

The people at Boxlot came to the board requesting people to test this product. I decided to do so. This thread was a request from Boxlot for an update. The Water Life product label states that it is for conditioning RO/DI water. This thread is in regards to that and that alone. Any further references to Water life as a plague cure or the existence of the plague or fish diseases in general should be in a new thread in the appropriate section. That being said, any posts outside of the stated topic will be deleted.

If you have used this product and have input feel free to post. If you have questions regarding this product and what it does, feel free to post. If you haven't used this product or even read the label, just feel like beating on someone for fun or the amusement of others, DON'T . Fair Statements of doubt regarding their claims based on experience with explanations are fine too. Cheap Shots are not.

On a personal note, I spent my hard earned $$$ to test a product. And Test it fairly I will. Regardless of my personal belief about the claims. I don't think it is fair for anyone who has not given this product an impartial test to just jump on and start slamming; especially those of you who have been victims of slamming in the past. We all have seen what happened when this was done with breeders.

I have stated in the past that (in my opinion) it is detrimental to the hobby to attack people who are requesting assistance or information.

How does anyone who has not tested this product know that the claims are untrue? No matter how unlikely they may seem. These people (Boxlot) feel their product has merit and is beneficial or they would not be selling it.

I'll jump off my soap box now, but be advised that I will delete posts that are not on topic or are just slamming for slamming sake.

RandalB

:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

[Don_Lee]

It is better to respect others opinions rather than ridicule and berate. Everyone has a right to their opinion, just as everyone has a right to be respected.

Don ;D

:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

[brewmaster15]

HI Loren,

No wonder the disease section is so lame Not sure what you mean by this , but That section is far from lame, and many benefit from here.

I have been off the boards for the last 2 weeks for personal matters so I have just been going thru the posts and catching up. I have to tell you that This product of yours is IMHO, very misleading.

I will say this only once here. No one has ever proved that there was any one particular organism that was responsible for "plague" Many feel it was a virus, if so, there is no way your product or any fish medication would have helped. I honestly don't think that what you have been testing it on is anything other than bacterial infections... but without a positive ID... You can't know either.

Your product is nothing more than humic acid and minerals ? acid in general is a known inhibitor of bacteria. Incidentally dropping the pH is known to work against columnaris as well.

Your site says
Humic Acid is not acid that causes a low pH. --Humic Acids are special molecules that take on three different forms or sizes of molecular weight, humic, fulvic, and ulmic fractions, all three interact with water chemistry in different ways with pH being the most commonly active determinant this doesn;t make much sense to me.. I'm not a chemist, just a biologist, but if its in its acid form....Humic acid...it has to affect pH either by being very acidic or by being mildly acidic and consuming buffers in the water.




Experimental update #1: I am told that by using heavy doses of AQUAHUMIC to the tank, that the so called "Angel fish disease" or "Plague" can be "cured". -- I have experimented with fish that have demonstrated very heavy slime coat and it does seem to remove or cure the heavy slime problem within 12 to 24 hours. -- Angel fish that have been Plague infected for several days will probably not make it anyway but if you can catch it in time then heavy doses (several large squirts) will set up an electrostatic charge in your filter and on your fish that may effectively cure the problem. -- Small doses might ward off the Plague or free swimming Ick to a certain extent. -- I would say that if you have Discus or Angels that can become subject to Plague conditions, (with no known cause or cure) then you should have a squirt or two of this on hand, especially if you have a large investment in fish as I do. -- I would say that the addition of AQUAHUMIC will also make your medications much more effective. What you describe here is not even close to the historic description of plague.

I am not saying that your product will harm fish, or might not be beneficial as it is an acid and humic acid is part of the natural water chemistry for discus. BUt tannins would also do the same , and are a known bacterial inhibitor.
A person could easily do the same by using leaf litter like oak leafs(high in tanins to generate tannic acid)..Who ever told you that this product will cure plague is misleading you. It can't cure what has not been identified.


My suggestion to you is to have a lab run your experiments with known strains of pathogens like columnaris and then advertise the results. The method you are currently advertising it by is actually fraudulent. You are making claims that have not been proven, and though I am not a legal expert... I'd look into liability if I were selling a product like this.

Particularly claims like...

I would say that if you have Discus or Angels that can become subject to Plague conditions, (with no known cause or cure) then you should have a squirt or two of this on hand, especially if you have a large investment in fish as I do. -- I would say that the addition of AQUAHUMIC will also make your medications much more effective. -- Antibiotics or salt will stick to the charged up fish more easily; however, Formaldehyde or Quick Cure might soak into the fish quickly and cause an over antibiotics or salt will stick to the charged up fish? That doesn't make sense at all.


I ask that until you have this product tested for its efficacy that you do not attempt to market it here. There are far too many people that fear losing their discus to that old disease, and many are novices that may misinterpret exactly what your product is and can do. If you would like to discuss this more, please email me.

Thanks,
al

[fcdiscus]

:thumbsup:AL!

[boxlotfish]

Al: Sorry if you feel misled. Humic Acid is a form of acid salts that have a 7.0 pH constant and is not an active acid. I never made any claims as several people have said. I only wanted to pass on useful information to others. I would be happy to keep it a secret but I am giving the stuff to my valued customers for free and I wanted to explain to them about it without repeating myself over and over. I can assure you that if I happen to sell to a distributor that any claims will be backed up with scientific data. Its not like it can be patented or held into a captive market. Anyone can buy a gallon of Humic acid and do the same thing. This stuff deserves attention and one way of giving it that is to put it into a bottle and let people try it out.

[Steve_Warner]

Hi all,
Ok, this subject has caught my inquisitive interest! Here is some reading(a tad scientific) to look over. Some interesting stuff is stated!


http://es.epa.gov/ncer/final/grants/95/chemistrywater/vonwandruszka.html



Steve

[Steve_Warner]

Hi all,
Another good link about metal/humic acid relationships. I THINK I understood this ??? I believe it is some tests done with different metals and acids in humic mixes to see the binding capacity of Humic acids and their subsequent chemical "fingerprint"(Electropherogram), if you will? My head hurts!......going to bed now


http://www.rivm.nl/bibliotheek/rapporten/518001007.pdf



Steve