Bullet Proof Planted Discus Tank

[regal]

The reefkeeping hobby has drawn alot of interest from the Discus in the last decade. There has been a little resurgance from the planted tanks. The interest in bare bottom Discus tanks is waning. The best thing that could happed to the discus hobby would be to for a "bullet proof discus planted tank" to be developed. When GARF published their "Bullet Proof Reef Tank" the reefkeeping bug spread like wildfire. There are a lot of reefkeepers (like myself) that want to compliment their "natural" reef tank with a freshwater version , of course it has to include the "King of Aquarium Fish". .

Want to do something big? How about Simply discus members put together a "Bullet Proof Planted Discus Tank" on this thread. I'm I rookie so someone else lead or I can post what I consider a start?

[ChloroPhil]

Describe the "Bulletproof Theory" Is it just an idiot proof system for success?

If that's the case then it'll be easy. Dupla's "THe Optimum Aquarium".

For those who are more $$$ conscious:

Flourite substrate 3" thick
Power Compact Flourescent Lighting: 2.5 w/g 5300K
-or-
Metal Halide: 175w every 2' of tank length (recommended for tanks 18"+ wide)
Compressed CO2 system
Wet/Dry filter

pH: 6.6
KH: 3*
GK: 3*
Temp: 82*F
NO3: 5ppm
K: 15ppm
PO4: 1.0ppm
Traces as needed

Plants
Echinodorus spp
Anubias spp
Microsorum pteropus
Cryptocoryne spp
Vallisneria spp
Rotala rotundifolia
H. micranthremoides
Ludwigia spp

Fish
Discus spp
Corydoras spp
Ottocinclus affinis
Ancistrus spp
Apistogramma spp
Small Characin spp to taste

[b3dlam]

One of the main difficulties in giving a bulletproof theory is the water conditions out of people's tap. This may mean that you need to use RO water, then add the nutrients....

Then there's the availablity of plants in any particular country...and the availability of equipment (from substrate to fertilisers). Whole product concepts like "Dupla's Optimum Aquarium" does add to the ease somewhat. However, even the Dupla system is not quite bulletproof, as you need to adjust the nutrients/lighting/co2 depending on the type of plants you wish to keep....

There are a lot of If's........sigh....

[regal]

The popularity of GARF's buulet proof reef tank was that it was very low cost, just had the essentials that you could build from.

For water I think RO would be the baseline and if you have soft tap water you can use that.

Heres the equipment I have now:

110 gallon tank drilled with overflows (used) $200
2 Over driven T8 Cool White NO flourecents (80 watts) $25
2 65watt LOA Compact flourecents $60
Mag 500 pump $40
Twist UV sterilizer 9 watts $80
Play Sand/peat/flourite/river gravel substrate $25
Driftwood from a local river $0
Used 5 lb CO2 Tank $40
used regulator $10
needle valve $10
Red hat selenoid $15
Used Chemtrix PH controller $40

[ChloroPhil]

That looks pretty good.

How tall is your tank? 30"?

[regal]

24", most of the plants grow like crazy but I have a amall algae problem, maily on the slow growing plants

[ChloroPhil]

What are your tank's parameters?

pH, KH, lighting, NO3, PO4, K etc.....

[regal]

PH 6.5 to 6.7
KH 3.5
cond. 300 microS
NO3 0
NO2 0
NH3 0

I dont add N PO4 or K or any trace elements, Probably why the algae. I haven't masted the CO2 , end up with swings. My CO2 reactor is made from a gravel cleaner which I don't recommend. The discus are still in quarantine, they are finicky eaters Im afraid they wont compete with the tetras.

[Ralph]

I'm still trying to find a balance of fertilizer and CO2 for my tank. Ive started adding nitrogen, with Phil's advise, and now I'm having trouble with my DIY CO2 (which I'm becoming less fond of). Phil, I'm using 11-15-20 dissolving tabs, does that sound good?
I don't know anything about the "Bulletproof" approach but I assume it is a low cost, cookbook setup with low maintenance. If so, we have a ways to go. We would have to find a way to soften the water besides using RO (or find out the maximum limits of the fish). We would have to de-emphasize plants I think, or limit it to plants that require regular lighting and can live without sophisticated fertilizing. I definately think that it is possible but we need to find out more about discus.
The other side to this coin though: Do we really want discus to be that popular, part of their appeal for many of us is that not everyone has them.

[ChloroPhil]

regal,
Your pH looks just right for you KH. A swing of .2 in a 24hr period is perfectly acceptable and is actually the goal of many plant keepers. You'll naturally have a lower pH when your lights just come on and your pH will be highest at the time your lights go out.

Ralph,
I don't recommend using tabs like that, they're much higher in Phosphate than you need and are likely to use Urea (Ammonia) for the Nitrogen which is a major cause of some algaes. I *HIGHLY* recommend using dry chemicals like KNO3 and K2SO4 for your Nitrate and Potassium needs as well as a good dry Trace Element mix. Liquid PO4 is pretty cheap..remember the enema thing..if you need any at all.

By using the dry chems you have much more control over the levels of nutrients in your water. With the types of food we feed our discus the PO4 level is going to be pretty high and it might not even be necessary to add.

more to come...

[regal]

I recently read a book "ecology of the planted aquarium" she says there is no need to add fertilizer or trace elements claims it comes from the fish food. Now she wasn't using high powered lights or CO2 like I am but I am still trying to avoid the adds. When I have added the algae started to go away and the tank looks cleaner but obtaining the potasium nitrate is difficult.

[ChloroPhil]

Diana wrote a great book...but I would stay as far from her methods as possible when discus come into the equation. Potassium Nitrate is sold in home improvement stores as Stump Remover, you can get big bottles of the stuff. Just check to make sure it's 100% KNO3. I get mine under the brand "Grant's Stump Remover".

[Ralph]

I am a big fan of Diana's book and her low tech, scientific approach. But it is definately not a recipe for discus show tanks. It IS an answer to years of the endlessly repeated truisms about aquariums and I like that she limits herself to suggestions that have at least some science behind them. The substrate that she recommends has so far, worked well for me, and the lighting too. And I use some of the science studies she summarizies as a basis for decisions on my discus tank.
Phil, you are right about the tabs, they contain "ammoniacal nitrogen." I can't even pronounce that. I'm going to bite the bullet and go with the enemas (how is that for a mixed metaphor). Where was that post that you discussed all the different fertilizers and where to get them?

[dm]

Ralph, I don't think we will ever have to worry about Discus being too popular. Besides the extra effort and expertise it takes to keep them healthy I think most people who have fish are not willing to invest a lot of money on an expensive Discus that has special needs.

[ChloroPhil]

Ralph,

I think you pinned that post up at the top. :) I'm happy to see you going with the other chemicals, just be wary of adding phosphate. The food we give our little ones is high in PO4 and NO3 and it's likely enough for your tank. I'm recommend adding Potassium, Traces, and CO2 before adding Nitrogen or Phosphate.

Check out www.ecogrow.com or www.litemanu.com and ask them for Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4) and a Chelated Trace Element mix in dry chemical form. If you're not sure about the availability of Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) in your area it might be a good idea to get some of that too. 5lbs of KNO3, K2SO4, and 1-2lbs of Trace Mix is enough to last you a looooooong time.


Regal,

I'm willing to be a lot that your algae problems stem from your high light and lack of nutrients. Check out my post "Answer to Algae Problems" for an explanation of things. Just like Novocaine, it'll work. Just give it time.