questions about "runts"

[tyrancooper]

I am relatively new to raising discus.

I purchased four 2-inch blue diamond discus from a breeder in July of this year. Today, three of the discus have approximately doubled in size, but one is exactly the same size as the day I received them. This discus eats only rarely, if at all. I have never witnessed the other discus "picking on" the little one. He/She does not appear to be ill (no white feces, stable color, etc.), but I am not sure of all that I should be looking for. It does not hide any more than the others but hardly ever "interacts" with them, if that makes any sense.

I can recall reading about runts in this forum and I understand that they sometimes occur among a group of discus. However, I still feel badly for this one and I have a couple of questions:

1. Is it possible for this fish to starve itself to death over time? (I hope not!)

2. Is there anything I can do to try to help this fish, i.e. improve its quality of life? (I hope so!)

3. What are the causes of and charateristics of a runt, compared to a sick fish?

Please note: I don't mind having a runt, I just don't want it to suffer.


Thanks for any and all information!

P.S. I've tested my water parameters and they are all good.

[jeep]

A friend had a similar situation and it turned out to be hex. I'm not saying that's your problem, but you may want to check out this thread and return here with the answers.

Good luck!

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1082

Sounds to me like he's getting picked on. Young discus are best kept in groups of 6 or more. This way, the picking gets spread out enough that one fish isn't the sole butt of the picking. You need to add more fish to fix you problem... ;) Really, that's the only thing you can do, unless he is sick, then you could treat him. See if he has white, stringy feces. And yes, Discus can starve themselves to death (usually from disease).

[ryconbb]

I have had success by removing the runt and placing him in a tank by himself. Given a chance to eat they will sometimes grow and may pass up the others. If he is sick you will want him in a hospital tank anyway.

[RAWesolowski]

It just may be genetics. However, if you have an extra tank, isolate him, push the temp up above 84F, increase your hardness to 400-500 ms and feed him live food.

Higher temps raise metabolism, hardness increase promotes growth in young fish and live food seems to stimulate appettite.

Give it a month in isolation and see if it pumps him up!

I recieved a group of 6 "runts" or "culls" from PatinNC in June. I put these 6 fish in a 29 gallon. Just them, no other fish. They have grown a lot since then and now I have one fish that is pushing six inches (including tail, it makes him sound bigger...lol). I think they just need a chance to be the big boss in the tank and have a better shot at foot. Of course, some are genetic and the environment just contributes.

Brad

[Fish_Fin-atic]

You could also try putting in a tank divider to separate the runt from the others for a while. It won't get picked on as much, and it might give it a chance to catch up to the others in size. The down-side to this method is that, most likely, your next smallest fish will be the one who will get picked on, and it will stop eating too. The best thing to do (as was already suggested) would be to get a few more Discus in the tank if you can. Good luck!

[jeep]

I think the main question here is, is it a runt or is it sick? A prolonged illness or being picked on for a very long time can make a runt, IME. Both can be overcome if caught early enough.

You say you got three fish in July? Under ideal conditions they all should have at least doubled in size by now. I agree that 3 fish is not an ideal number to have because the "shyest" fish gets picked on to the point of being afraid to eat. Stress will make it susceptable to any number of illnesses that the others can handle. I had a discus that would not eat the food in front of it's face, but rather would search for the food that another certain discus wanted. Today the one that got bullied is the smallest in the tank, although not a runt.

A friend had a similar situation as yours. She treated it for Hex and isolated the fish for about a month. She's still the smallest in the tank, and probably will be for a long time if not forever, but she's also now the bully of the tank. Funny to watch...

If it is genetically a runt then it will probably lead a good life without suffering. I would use it as a test subject to introduce new fish from QT.

Good luck!!!

[tyrancooper]

I presently have the four jeveniles in a 40 gallon breeder tank. They share the tank with 5 rummy nose tetras, 11 cardinals,
1 SAE, and 2 small clown loaches.

I am leery of adding more discus, because I don't want the tank to be overcrowded, especially as the discus continue to grow.

I had been planning to set up a 30 long and fill it with African tetras and cichlids, anubius, etc., but I think that I will set this tank up for my tiny discus (calling him/her a runt sounds so derogatory) and see if I help him/her with preventive medication, live food, and a higher temperature. This also gives me an opportunity to try out the new "instant cycling" product by Marineland Labs (has anyone tried it already?).

My new concern is that the lowest discus on the totem pole among the three that would be left in the 40 gallon tank might begin to show the same "failure to thrive" symptoms as my tiny discus. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to solve this growing problem? Unfortunaltely I do not have room for another tank larger than 40 gallons ( I've alreadly got 6 in my small apartment!).

Tyra

Tyra, singling that discus out might do more harm than good. Juvenile discus are schooling fish, just like tetras and such, and should be kept in groups of 6 or more for a secure feeling. That also makes things easier on runts as the picking is more spread out amongst the group.

[tyrancooper]

OK...

But wouldn't my 40 gallon breeder be overcrowded (if not now, then in the future) if I were to add 2 more juvenile discus to the community that is already there (in order to spread out the aggression)?

Tyra

Well,
how many fish and of what size do you have in your 40 gallon? Better yet, just tell us how many tanks you have, what size they are, if they are in use right now, and how many fish and of what size are in them. Then we can give you the best possible breakdown of fish into tanks and your problem will hopefully be solved.

Brad

[hunterbeav]

Could have tapeworms, i've heard if they have tapeworms they don't get all the nutrition from the food they eat. The tapeworms take a lot of it. Could this be the problem, I would try a couple prazi treatmeants and watch for tapeworms to pass. :)