wet/dry's

[limige]

i'll post some pics when i get home and finish it but here's the idea at work.

skimmer was made out of 4"pvc glued to a peice of glass, right on the edge of the glass so you may get close to the tank wall. doubles as a breeding cone..lol

from there, a 1" tube comes from the inside of the overflow to the outside overflow box. the overflow box has a stand pipe drain tub in it which will set the level of water inside the skimmer. the 1" drain is plumbed with pvc down under the stand to a 23gal. cube tank..

water is distributed front to back throught the 1" pvc with lots of holes drilled on the bottom side. this pours water onto a layer of sponge that covers a drip-plate. which is just a peice of 1/8" plexi with many holes drilled it in.

the cube tank has a peice of plexi siliconed front to back located 6" off the side and has a 1 1/2"x3 7/8" square hole cut out of the corner. in this corner i glue another piece of plexi 2 1/2" high running from the side of the tank to the big peice of plexi that runs front to back.

from the drip plate it passes over the bio balls and to the tank bottom where my heaters will be located. the bio balls are held up 2" off the bottom with 1" pvc holding up egg crating. the bio balls are kept in mesh sacks for easy removal and washing.

from the heaters the water passes through the corner of the plexi through 2 aquaclear sponges jammed in the 4x6 corner, then overflows into the sump area.

a mag drive 500gph pump pumps the water back into the tank.

i'll post pics when i get home next week!

[limige]

k heres the pics

this is a pic of the 23 gal tank with the plexi siliconed in place

[limige]

another showing the 3 3/4x1 1/2 inch hole for water to go through to be filtered by the sponges before overflowing into the sump

[limige]

..overflow box

[limige]

..heres the spacers, eggcrate, bio balls in mesh bag, dip plate and filter media that will sit in the left side of the tank in this order

[limige]

...

[limige]

...

[limige]

heres the back of the tank showing the overflow drain

[limige]

here's the tubing setup for the return from the pump

[limige]

this is almost setup, i'm adding another tube entering the tank and shooting the water to the other side of the tank.

Could this be built out of like a spare 10 gallon too? That would work well.

Brad

[daninthesand]

What'd you use for the overflow box? ;)

[limige]

i cheated, the lfs had just the ouside box they sold me for $10 with the hole already in the bottom. could easily be done with plexi and silicone.

i choose the 23 gal cuz my tank is 190 gallons and i wanted room for a good amount of bio balls.. when you clear room for a sump in a 10 gallon you don't have alot left for bio balls, but if you only have like a 50 galllon tank or so that might be sufficient... i'm no expert just trying this for the first time and sharing what i know.

limige,

Here's some issues I'd consider if I were you...

- what water level are you going to maintain in your sump? After you determine that, turn off the pump and test to see how high it rises. It should get about 1" of water from your 190g tank and there is a risk of overflowing the sump if the water level is running too high to begin with. But with the small opening from the sump section to the pump section, and the foam in front of it you run the risk of running the pump dry if the foam gets clogged. I say that because if you run the sump level low and the foam gets clogged the pump could run dry before the water overflows the plate from the sump to the pump section... So I'd test it by 1st shutting off the pump to ensure the sump won't overflow, then test it by plugging the hole between the sections to make sure the water overflows. I bet it won't overflow and the pump will run dry. That is a real concern.

- if you have the water level low enough per the above discussion you may find your drip tray ain't cutting it. Is it level or sloped towards the pump? It is a concern moreso if the water level is low as the flow of water is the only contact the bioballs will have with the amm/nit. So if the bulk of the water hits the plate and drops you could have an issue.

- that pump is minimal for that size tank. I've got the same pump in my 180g tank with wet/dry and wish I'd gone for the 700 or higher. It would also have been a good idea to split the output to both ends of the tank to lessen the current. Next time you do this you might want to consider flexible hose for your lines rather then rigid PVC. It's a lot easier to move around and easier to work with. Maybe you did consider this and have valid reasons for your choice of PVC.

- I'm not completely sure how your overflow box works. The large PVC pipe confuses me. Is the bottom sealed? Does it sit on the tank bottom? If it's sealed then I assume that water overflows over the sides of the pipe and then gets siphoned. Does it lose it's siphon when you change 50% of the water in your tank? I get the outside part. It could be improved by siliconing a piece of acrylic across the box to create a small compartment that the J tube sits in. That way there will always be water in that compartment and you can't lose the siphon if the water flow stops. Then you could cut down the PVC pipe a bunch. I'd be concerned with the pipe that high that there is a risk of overflowing the box since you have about 2" max before overflow. I'd also stick a sponge with a hole drilled in it over the pipe (after cutting it down) to add another prefilter to the filter.

- love the detail of the risers with the eggcrate, wish I'd thought of that. The mesh bag for the balls is great too, I used strawberry netting and it's tough to work with.

- make sure you drill a hole on the inside of the J tube for the return line to your tank so the siphon breaks immediately when the pump shuts down.

Good luck with the filter, hope it works well.

Dave

[limige]

hehe, wish i'd have read your post before the intial startup today!!lol

your right. sump level is a problem. either i need to raise the plate from the sponges so it runs a higher level or connect a tube to the pump that sucks lower. i'm gonna try and add more plate to raise the level of overflow. i'm just wondering if everything will flow enough to it.

the large pvc has a peice of glass siliconed to the bottom, so water overflows into the top.


made some slight mods here and there. i cut some grooves on the stand pipe, the water overflows inside and follows the siphon tube. if tank level drops like right now then the end of the siphon is still underwater so it holds siphon. the level of water inside this tube is set by the height of the drain inside the overflow...if i added a plate inside the overflow between the siphon and drain then the height of that plate would determine the water level.

when pump is shutoff the overflow box drains to the top of the drain tube and that height is above the siphon tube hence the siphon stays going. the overflow and the stand tube inside the tank even out.

forgot to mention before i have a prefilter inside the overflow as shown in this pic

[limige]

forgot to say, the sump level was too low and the pump was sucking air..so i shut everything down. and didn't realize the fill tube started siphoning out the tank. so that is why the water level is down in the tank. lost a bit on water on the floor....

[limige]

so i'll take your advice and drill a small hole in it to break the siphon, where exactly should i drill it?

overflow box worked great. the only problem seems to be the sump level..hopefully raising the water level before the sump will raise the sump level enough, i may try to add some hose to drop the intake of the pump.

i plan on putting my heaters under the bio balls when i get my new titanium ones that is one reason for the spacers under the eggcrate. also to keep the balls above water.

thanks for the input dave, i'm open to suggestions, will try more tomorrow!

btw, apparently this small turk liked my stand tube cuz it's making dry runs for the very first time!!!! :o ;D ;D ;D :o

in case anyone was wondering about using something like a 10 gallon to house a wet/dry, I saw one for sale on e-bay today that is made to sit inside a 10 gallon. So it can be done...

brad

[limige]

k, wet/dry is up and running. i had to chop the drain tube to about 3 inches inside the overflow box and remove the prefilter from the drip plate.. the filter material wasn't allowing the water to spread on the plate, i'm going to work on the drip plate for better distribution.

Drill the hole on the pipe going into the tank right at or just below the desired water level. Drill it on the glass side of the tank so it will just spray or push a bit of water toward the glass. This way when the water stops pumping the siphon will break almost immediately. It doesn't matter if the hole is above the water level as the water will just spray out a bit and stay in the tank. It also doesn't matter if it's as much as 0.5" below the water level as you usually get about 1" of tank size returned to your sump when the pump stops. That 1" is what you're dealing with. In my 180g tank 1" represents about 7.5 gallons. So I have to ensure that my sump level can rise by 7.5g without overflowing. I run it as high as possible while allowing that much room for shutdown. You could also go to Aquatic Ecosystems and get a backup valve so water can only flow to the tank and not back up. But drilling a hole is cheap & easy & works well.

Removing the prefilter over the drip plate sucks as a lot of dirt will now get into your media and you'll have to clean it more often. If you have enough water flow you should find the water spreads out fine and hits the media ok. Especially if you raise the level in your sump the media will basically be sitting in the water. I'd put the prefilter back if I were you. As it gets dirty in the spot where the water is flowing it will spread out to the cleaner parts of the plate. My water just pours out from a pipe onto a prefilter sitting on a drip plate, same idea as yours, and it spreads out fine. Mind you my media is sitting about 3/4 submerged in water. My guess is that the holes you drilled on your drip plate are too large so the water doesn't need to spread out to get through.

Is that a piece of glass or acrylic that you siliconed in place to separate the media from the pump? Either way I'd remove it, and cut the glass/acrylic so the slot is the entire length of the tank. Then put sponge over the entire length. The water will get to the pump a lot easier then. Otherwise I'd remove the sponge. The problem you have is that the water can't get through there fast enough and it will only get worse as the foam gets dirty.

Dave

[hunterbeav]

Would this also solve the problem. Just a thought what do you think. Jim :) Overflow theory of operation
The overflow box is a relatively simple concept. You use two boxes, one inside the tank, one outside the tank, and a syphon tube to move water from one to the other. But there are a few important things to be aware of.

It's very important that the Overflow not lose it's syphon if the power fails. If the syphon were to break, and then the power comes back on, the water will be pumped from the sump back to the tank, but no water will flow from the tank back to the sump. This means that the main tank would overflow, all over your floor!

My overflow box is set up so that it will maintain water above the bottoms of syphon tubes regardless of the tank water level. Here's how it works:When the pump is operating, the tank water level will be maintained at a constant level, just above the inlets on the inside overflow box.

Water will then flow thru the syphon tube (or tubes), to the outside box.

The outside box is divided into two compartments. The right compartment is where the syphon tubes are placed. The left compartment is where the water exits (thru a pipe in the bottom of the box. There is a divider seperating the two compartments. Water spills over the divider from the right side to the left side.

Once the water reaches the left side of the outer overflow box, it drains thru a prefilter (sponge, shown in yellow), and down the pipe, to a hose that is connected to the wet/dry.

During a power failure, or during tank maintenance, the return pump will not be pumping water from the sump back to the tank. The water level in the tank will drop. The water will drain thru the overflow, and will also drain backwards down the return-pump hose.

NOTE: Normally the water level in the tank will drop to just below the overflow box inlets (The diagram is just exaggerated to show how the box maintains syphon). But if the return-pump hose ends deep in the tank, a syphon will form, and attempt to carry water from the tank, back down the return-pump hose, and into the sump going backwards thru the pump. To prevent this, either have the return hose end near the top of the tank, or if you want to have the water return deep in the tank, place a small hole in the return hose, near the top of the tank, just below the normal water level. Then, when the pump is off, water will drain down to the overflow level, and the hole inthe return hose will let in air, and break that reverse-syphon.

Once the tank water level drops below the overflow inlets and below the water return hose, the tank will stop draining. But even though the water level is below the overflow inlets, the syphon tubes will still maintain their syphon, ready to start moving water once power is restored.

You can see in the diagram, that the water drains down to the level of the divider in the outside box. The inside and outside boxes equalize at the same level, and no more water flows, but syphon is maintained.
This is not my info but got it off a web site :)

Yup, that's how they're made. I got mine from Lifereef. They haven't failed in almost 3 years.

Dave

[limige]

i've decided to silicone two peices of glass inside the tank in the rear corner instead of using the pvc.

dave knows his s@$#. as the sponges got more and more clogged water levels began to rise in the bio ball area and the sump would run too low.

i've been getting alot of noise from the drain on the overflow box too.

so i'm doing an engineering change.lol

[pete_lockwood]

Here's my all-plactic super-cheap version :)
The colanders have since been replaced with an enclosed plastic tub which has layers of floss for the mechanical filtration.

[ChloroPhil]

I use a small rubbermaid trash can full of lava rock inside a 20L for my filter. The overflow can be a bit noisy at times, but as long as I keep the water high enough in my sump it's quiet.

[limige]

ttt

there's much good info in this thread tony!!!

wet/dry has been going for a year or so now, works good, although alittle noisy, just need to work on the overflow box.

the pvc overflow was replaced with two peices of glass siliconed in the corner of the tank.

good luck!
mike

[Dave C]

If the noise of the water rushing down the overflow is noisy take a piece of airline and hang it down the hose where the water goes, about 1 ft down inside the hose. Attach it to the top of the box so it doesn't go down the hose. The noise will stop.

[Paulio]

Take a look at these noise solutions. I have used this type set in tanks with built in overflows and hang on overflows. Work great!

http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe_frame.htm


Paul

[limige]

thanks paul, i'll try that, i tried putting things such as airline down the tube with little success. right now i have a 3/8" hard tube inside it and still get a bit of noise. the flow is just too much it spirals down creating a vortex and the open space in the middle like amplifies the sound.

i'll try that submerged technique and see how that works.

[ronrca]

I use to have the same problem on my rack system, the gargaling (sp?) sound. As you can see in the pic, I used 90s on the overflows which caused some kind of air suction. It got pretty loud too. I replaced the 90 with a T connector. No more noise! ;)

[tony1313]

I have never tried it but I read someplace it is as easy as installing a ball valve between the prefilter and the wet/dry and adjusting the flow of the water accordingly.

hth,
Tony

[elimon]

This is what i'm using and it is very quiet! 8)

http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe-ken_stockman.htm

Efren

[limige]

wow neat, i like that one!

[limige]

efren, i did that one and it seems to be working great! only thing is i have a prefilter sponge that covers the drain tube, so we will see how that works out.

thanks for the ideas!

i'm setting up a rack of breeders soon and may do a central wet/dry for them. let you all know how that goes.

ttl,
mike