Success with infrequent water change?

[bigfred]

Hi all,

I was given a 29g tank for chrismas... and a copy of Diana Walstad`s book on the Ecology of the Planted Aquarium. I was considering using the techniques she describe in her book to start my first discus tank.

My goal is to keep ~4 small/medium sized discus and not really to breed them (although, if they do I will be happy ;) ).

So, I read heavily on Discus on Internet and in various books. Generally, people seem to agree that frequent water changes (e.g. on daily basis) are required to get good growth and breeding success with those fish. I really don't have the will, the time and resources to do this daily maintenance on this new tank. I know there is a lot of strongly opiniated people on this list about frequent water changes, but I would rather hear from people (if any) that had success with keeping discus with ~monthly water changes and any general advices those people could have.

Thanks,
Frederic

[dm]

I understand what you are saying about not wanting to do all those water changes. They can be a pain if you are not really wanting to do them.
However I am afraid if you do monthly changes you will not have success with Discus. They are just not the same fish as other South American fish that can handle infrequent water changes. Discus are not really hard to keep but you have to keep them right or they will not do well at all. Would a community tank without Discus be something you would be willing to consider?

[Carol_Roberts]

That's kinda like saying I'm buying a new Cadillac, but I don't want to change my oil every 3,000 miles. I want to change it every 30,000 miles.

I know many people will advise me to change oil every 3,000, so I'd only like to hear from the people that change their oil every 30,000 miles.

Therefore, the responses I get would all be from people who are willing to risk damaging the Cadillac engine or shortening it's lifespan. ??? There are many other fish that might suit your needs.


Carol :heart1:

[kevster]

Fredric
You definetly can can raise and breed healthy beautiful looking discus without doing anything near the volume of water changing that some of these people are doing. I am not saying they are wrong in changing all that water, I am doing it myself now since I automated everything, but you do not have too.
I have had discus on and off again for the past 20 years. Most of the time they were kept in 2 or 3 show tanks in my living room. The tanks always had glass gravel, rocks, fake plants and I used supreme power filters. When I change water I would siphon out 25% and replace it with straight tap water. This tap water did have chlorine in it but I don't know how much. At best I would change the water once every 2-3 weeks and sometimes I would only add waer when it evaporated. The tanks were clean and the fish were well fed with either beef heart or blood worms. The fish always grew to full size and I had different pairs lay eggs over the years. Now maybe they didn't grow as fast as someone changing 50% of their water daily but so what. They looked great and were havin babies. About 3 years ago I bought 18 - 2 in discus and put them in a 70 gal show tank. I lost a couple for one reason or another but about 14 months after I bought them they started breeding. I had 4 pairs laying eggs. If I changed the water once every 3 weeks that was alot. On this tank I would drop the water level about 40% and refill right from the tap. Its community well water so I know its treated but I really don't know much about water chemistry. The professional breeders are striving to create exceptional conditions to maximize their breeders and alot of people with fishrooms, myself now included, are copying their systems but it is definetly not not necessary. I wouldn't be doing water changes if I had to manually do it. I don't have the time.

read this also
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=5310;sta rt=15

[kevster]

Carol
Thats funny about the oil changes. I did buy a 1997 dodge grand caravan and I have never changed the oil, only added some. It has 97,000 miles on it and still runs fine.

you know a doctor will advise you not to smoke for a variety of health reason but people still do and some live alot longer than non smokers. (I don't smoke)

All I am saying is it is the fish will not drop dead if your not changing water every day.

[Francisco_Borrero]

Kevster:
I think all Carol was pointing at was,
What do you want the discus to look like ? As if they are thriving, or as your Grand Caravan ?
They will not just drop dead. They will die a bit more each day.
Cheers, Francisco.

[Richman]

Welcome Bigfred,
No, your fish will not drop dead if you don't do daily water changes. But their environment won't be as healthy nor will they. That is why they grow more quickly in clean water. Healthier. Aren't as susceptible to disease, etc. What I don't understand is why you can't do a daily wc on a 29 gal. tank. It takes a 5 gallon bucket, 8 ft. or less of 3/4 inch hose and 5 one gallon water jugs. Start a siphon into the bucket and it will be full in a couple of minutes. Then replace with the 5 gallons of aged water from the jugs. Then just refill the jugs and let age till the next day. Seriously, this doesn't take but about 5 or so minutes. If you put a large HOB filter on the tank, this set up will let you do better than 10 percent wc daily and keep the aquarium and water clean. Cheap and quick. I would think that you would probably be willing to do at least this much. Otherwise, there are a lot of pretty fish that aren't as high maintenance. I think you just don't realize how quick and simple it can be. Or how cheaply it can be done. Good luck.

[Flexy]

I change 10-20% weekly. Fish doing great. Growing and eating well. I just don't feed them too much. Helps keep fish hungry and tank clean.

[Aquatic_Design]

bigfred
I'm not going to criticize other peoples methods. I'll just show you the difference between raised with daily water changes versus raised with infrequent water changes.

Donna

This is daily change.

[Aquatic_Design]

This is infrequent change. :-X This fish is actually 1 1/2 years older then the orange pb it is following. The orange pb is not done growing. Why would anyone want to knowingly do this to any discus. ??? ??? ???

Donna

[jeep]

4 adult discus in a 29 sounds a little cramped also. Have you considered trading the 29 in for a 55 and getting a few more discus?

[fcdiscus]

I agree with Brian. I think crowding a large tank is better than a smaller one. Frank

[Jeff]

I have not known ANYONE to be successful with discus without doing frequent water changes. I'm not saying 50% per day 7 days a week, but they do have to be frequent. At least 5x weekly and 25% per day is the least I've seen anyone be successful with. Personally I like 75% everyday. :)

[jeep]

Just a comparison, with 4 juvies I did about 30% every 2 or 3 days as they were growing in a 50g planted tank. The males grew massive and were adult size within 8 months. The females however, are smaller yet very happy and healthy.

A friend had about 12 discus in a 55 and did 50% every 2 - 3 days and although they are healthy, those fish are much smaller even today at about 16 months of age.

[Ashish]

I change 25 - 40 % water change every week , and my discus are doing great and have even paired up. :) .But the only drawback of not changing water frequently i have experienced that your discus wont grow fast ,they do grow but will take time as compared to the frequently changed water discus .
Regards,
Ashish.

[BlueTurquoise]

This is the age old question, to frequently water change or not to frequently water change. I think i boils down to one thing, if you want large fully grown fish or not.

This relates to all fish, goldfish, discus, oscars, koi. All fish need clean water to grow to optimal size, no doubt about it.

Let me tell you a short story (pfft Chong and his "short" stories! lol). My sister keeps a fantail goldfish in a 2 galon fish bowl, once a day feeding, wc every 2 weeks or less. I keep 2 baby golds in a 10 galon tank with good filtration, once a day feeding and weekly water change. A family friend has a large 40 galon (approx) flower pot outdoors, weekly waterchange and weekly (yes weekly) feeding. I personally baught my sister the same fish food as I feed my gold fish and the family friend's gold fish so there is no food discrepency there besides maybe whatever the flowerpot fish can catch for themselves outdoors.

We started keeping the fish relatively at the same time and at the time all the fish were of 1 to 1.5 inch size (sizes not including fins, cute baby goldfish). 1 year passed.

My sister's fish is still 1 to 1.5 inches and that is about as big as it will every grow. Mine are a good 2-3 inches. My black moore is shorter but he is fatter to make up for it. My family friend's fish in the flowerpot is HUGE! they are at least 4 inches or more, the largest probably a big 4.5 inches. The flowerpot fish are much more healtheir than mine, they show good colour and good finnage. My sister's goldfish has flarred gills and swims abit funny (lack of an airstone? not sure). Mine are very happy fat fish, they come to the top to be fed and they are very comfortable with my hand in the tank.

Make up your own conclusions. The larger the capacity of water, the longer it takes for the water to foul up. The more frequent the waterchange tips this balance. 29gal for 4 adult discus with seldom waterchange is not a good ratio. Perhaps Diana Walstad changes water in her 300 galon tank every month and stocks it with guppies and this works, but certainly a 29gal with 4 large discus changing water every month may not. get my drift?

Anyway good luck with whatever you decide. Reading and research is the best awy to do it so I am sure you will do well whatever you descide.

On that note, if you have a chance, visit a breeder or some guy/girl that keeps lots of discus and be awed at the potential size of which the discus can attain. Even the largest LFS discus that I have seen is peuny in compared to properly raised specimines. They truly are dinner plate size, no kidding! :o Some are HUGE 7-8 inch specimines! I am more than sure they feed them lots and do heaps of water changes. Even maybe automated or continuous drip.

Chong :thumbsup: