What not to breed

[roger]

I have as yet to get beyond the egg stage (though I may have just accomplished that last night - different story though) and so far the fish that have been laying eggs have been of the same strain or nice fish that I wouldnt mind getting babies that looked like mom or pop.

What I wanted to know is if anyone had made any crosses where the babies just turned out UGLY so that I can avoid going through that.

Im asking because in my current qt tank a blue panda and a snakeskin are starting to do a little shake/shimy. I just cant decide if that would make a nice looking fish or something just horid.

Until I actually get babies out of it Ill settle for ugly fish just for the learning experience.

Peace,
Roger

[fcdiscus]

Two nice looking fish will make nice looking babies. An ugly fish will make ugly babies. About the same as what people do! ;D Frank

[Ryan]

I dunno Frank, I've seen cute kids and I think, "How did those two parents make a cute kid?" j/k ;D

I think it's probably all subjective. What some may think is awful, others may think is beautiful. In fact, that happens a lot with the strains and crosses in existence now. For instance, some love those snowflakes, others think they're terrible.

So someone, somewhere will like a blue panda snakeskin, even if you may not :)

Ryan

[fcdiscus]

Yes Ryan, and even all baby Discus are cute! But it is the end result that counts! ;D UGLY= UGLY! Frank

I totally disagree. Until you breed them you have no Idea what your going to get. Unless you have some qlue as to what there background is. There are way too meny variables to say two good looking fish are going to produce nice offspring... Genetics are not that simple.

Mike

[mutfish]

Mike's right, a few years ago I had a couple of sacraficial small pigeon blood footballs produce some very nice round and nicely patterned offspring ??? whood a thunk it ???

[roger]

Ryan you are right, somewhere someone would love a discus that looks like a severum, o wait there are fish like that already :)

If nothing else, ugly fish make greate give aways to people just starting out. Nothing like killing a 50$ fish when you could have killed a 5$ one. I guess untill I actually get babies that Ill let nature do all the pairing and let the fry fall where they may.

In the meantime Ill hope and pray that when I get home what I though where wrigglers actually where. Darn fish laid the eggs in spot hard to see. If they are Ill be moving the parents to a 29 to give them some privacy. The current wrigglers wont survive in the 55 with 16 other fish in the tank.

Peace,
Roger

Sounds like a good plan to me ;) :thumbsup:


Mike

[DarkDiscus]

Roger,

I have a severum that doesn't look like a severum, so I guess there could be discus that DO look like severums... And the opposite...

John

[mikeos]

It really depends on what you class as ugly, personally I concider some of the newest strains to be on a par with red parots & "ornamental" goldfish, please always bear in mind that appearance is part genetics & part envirnoment.

Genetic defects like mishapen/ short gill plates will be passed to the offspring if it is a dominant, or if both parents are showing the defect or are geneticaly suseptible.

NOTE; most aquarium varieties are the result genetic defects/modification/change, "sports" if you prefer. Biology only recognises a very few types of Discus (like less than 6, someone can look it up)

Other "defects" like shape may be as a result of environment or the "rearing skill" of their owner. Yes some are probably genetic, those who breed Discus often might like to conduct an experiment, split a brood equally and treat half normally & neglect the other half, lets see the results. I bet I can make your very best fry look like a football in 9 months.

Admitidly fry from poor genetic stock will probably produce mostly poor fish, but unless you know the entire breeding line from wild stock to your parents you are only realy guesing as to the outcome. If the fish are from a good line then even if the fish you have appear poor quality ( remember environmental factors) you may still get good fry.


mike ;D

[fcdiscus]

Agreed! ;) Frank

Kinda leaves me with the question of.. "Which gender is the most dominate"? Does it depend on the strain?

For instance I have a great colored Female G/Wild (who happens to not have the most perfect shape) and a male that is a High Finned RT. His shape (to me) is near perfect. Who will be the dominate parent? So far the fry appear to resemble the Mother but (I wonder) could it be possible that they take on traits of the males shape/fin?

Or... like Roger asks... Will they be butt UGLY?

:)

Very Good Mike O ;D

[mikeos]

Hi julz

gender has nothing to do with it, other than the obvious, either party can cary the dominant gene for a given attribute eg eye colour.

[brewmaster15]

Julz,
Like Mike said, genetics ae very complex. most of the traits that we generally consider as ugly or beautiful are not the result of just one dominent or recessive gene, and few are associated with the male and female chromosomes. A gene simply codes for a specific protein sequence to be made. So what really matters is how many genes inherited will have a net effect of giving a round fish or football. Though a gene is specific, the end product is not necessarily so , and can almost be thought of as a blending . This is why is takes generations of in breding to get a fish to be a true strain. You have to breed out all the gene varaitions (alleles) and get it so the two adults are genetically similarly.

Now that I just lost myself... what was the question? :) oh yes.... itsb 50-50 % for either male or female to be dominant for these ugly/beauty traits,as they are not located necessarily on the sex chromosomes..

hth,
al

Roger here's a good post to read. A little info anyways!


http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=3535

Thanks Brew... Makes sense now.

I just love this trial and error period. Brain Food!....

So far the Fry all appear healthy (Thanks Cary for clearing up the questions last night) and I guess that should be my main concern.

One step at a time, right?

:)

[roger]

Good thread Cary

Gives me something to think through.

Peace,
Roger