Fish Dying....

[peety]

I recently pulled fry from two breeding pair as they were obviously over stressed. They were darting around tank and drifting horizontally. I placed both fish in a tank with 1 tablespoon salt / gallon water and do 100% water changes daily. This has been going OK. both fish seemed to have started recovery. Got home today and one fish is on the bottom of the tank. The other is starting the same syptoms as the first, darting around tank..... Only meds I have so far are formaldehyde, furan-2, and fluke tabs. (Ihave prazi on order but not here yet). The gill plate on the second fish is shortening, and gills are red.

Any help please.....

Continue w/c's (2x50% daily) ?
Salt ? higher/lower ?
Furan ? should I continue adding furan at w/cs?

TIA
peet

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Peety:
What type of antibiotics do you have abvailable in the UK? Perhaps a bacterial infecton has set in the gills. Generally they are gram negative. Perhaps neomyacin, or a form of penicillen? I don't have a lot of experience with illness of this nature - sorry :-\
Carol :heart1:

[fcdiscus]

Hey Peety- Might be too late, but I would use a 1/4 tsp Neomycin per 20 gallons ASAP. Good luck, Frank

[peety]

Just as a record of the tradegy.....
All parms in my tank were fine, no new fish, nothing new.. except a spawn of about 50 fry (was probably about 70-80 at start).
This obviously stressed out the parents due to slime feeding and allowed the resident problems to show up. I was doing w/c's of about 20%/2xday for months until this.
My other main tank (community) is fine no probs have shown up (I move fish between the two) ,but I assume any probs are still in main tank :-\.
I have dumped a double dose of gill fluke tab in tank, a dose of furan-2 and vetamox tablets(our version of neomycin according to the vet), I should get some prazi tomorrow....
I am in New Zealand and there aren't a lot of the meds that you use here... even droncit is being replaced (the new med kills fish though) ... (It took me ages to talk to a vet who even cared I had a sick fish)....
Dad fish is in tank with mom and lifts her up every time she lies on bottom... :'( :'(

Salt levels are high.... what is too high?? they are about 1 1/2 tablespoon / gallon now any point going higher?

I have added more air to tank temp is 86 should I raise or lower ?

This is really saddening.. one high then a super low... :'(

peety :(

[Carol_Roberts]

I'm sorry Peety:

Sometimes things happen and there is nothing we can do. . . .

I don't know how long to use that amount of salt. I've never used high doses like that. Generally I use 1or 2 tbsp per 10 gallons. Are you treating for exterior bacterial infection or internal bacterial infection or both?
Carol :heart1:

[peety]

Mom died last night, dads looking pretty sad now too.

The minute mom died I bagged her and stowed her in the fridge... just had the post mortem done.....

It's velvet according to the vet. The gills were damaged but no gill fluke found,( but I've been dosing for that so that might not mean anything).

There were no large patches of spotting except that the scarring I was worried about. This could have been velvet, these were small dots though, (except the large one on dad). My temps are always at 30 with preheated water for changes.

I've bumped up the temp to 34 is this too high ?

I've also got copper sulphate from vet and am adding at 1 ml per 110 litres of water.

Still adding vetamox....

I've never seen velvet (still haven't really) but sounds like ich. :-\

peety

[fcdiscus]

Sorry Peety! if the vet is right and he should be- the copper will do the trick. Best to you, Frank :'(

[peety]

I'm concerned about GH of water. Read somewhere copper only works if GH is high, mine is about 40 ppm which I think is about 3 ? Isn't this too low for copper to work? It bounces around a lot too, I'm checking every couple of hours and keep adding by the drop....

I don't want to drop a ton of meds in but this is only 1 fish 1 tank.... I have another breeding tank plus planted....

Anyone had any success with oodinium (killing it that is not growing it :-\)

(If I'd a known I'd a bought a cat........)

peety

[peety]

As an aside.....
the vet said the main problem he has seen in discus in NZ is HITH.

That realistically I should be ready for that too when it arrives.....

Bloody good vet too.... open, and spent ages with me going over my tank specs....

peety :'(

[peety]

Bah !!!

Fish wasn't looking any better, still cramped and lying down. Did a dose of meth blue 1.5 times recommended and dumped in about 6 tablespoons of salt.

Still flicking around tank and scraping sides so dropped in 40 drops of formalin.

Heat is really high now (put another heater in tank and cranked both up to max), at about 93 and steady.

Fish looks better, still stressing but does do slow passes around the tank, no flashing anymore. No cramping and fins fully extended. Still gasping though.And likes to swim through the bubble wall.(added another pump and bubble wall stone, going flat out)

He looks better.....

[jeep]

Peety, FYI Fluke Tabs will actually promote skittishness and darting around the tank.

It's a terrible thing to watch. Hope it all works out for you...

[Carol_Roberts]

Peety:
Add extra air immediatey. high temp + formalin = very low oxygen!!!

Did you vet say to add formalin too?????

CArol :heart1:

[brewmaster15]

Hi peety,
do not double dose fluke tabs!!!!! Its borderline toxic at the 1 tablet /10 g dose. Its a nerve toxin.... hence the skittish behavior.

Don't combine meds in the tank,unlss the vet tells you to. If you want you can pull the fish out and give it a formalin bath, short dip.

copper takes time to work. A safer med to use is maracide.. it works well on external parasites.


Shut all lights on the tank, The parasite requires light to survive. blocking the light will weaken it.


hth,
al

[joanr]

Can you get acriflavine by kordell? It's for oodinium. You'd have to get the other meds out first with carbon filter for a few hours. Hope something helps soon!

JR

[peety]

He's still alive but doesn't look happy with me :(

He was really gasping this morning. I dumped 50% water and added copper, pennicillan and salt.

I can get acriflavine but no maracide.

He doesn't look as good as when i went to bed last night :(

I did the formaline dip and he swam happily around in the bucket, no probs didn't curl up or flash.

I can see the mucus on his side in the right light and the velvet.... bugger its still there...

Pretty sure its all through all my tanks, got a brown in the planted tank with what looks like a touch of ich, but temps are 30 ..... :'(

[peety]

I may as well finish the obit.....

Dad died.

The copper didn't appear to help (he just lay on bottom of tank).

I got some acriflavine and dosed his tank plus another tank with (apparently healhy fish).

He crapped out within an hour. Headed straight for the bottom and never looked like coming back.

The other tank (5 fish) got through day 1 of acriflavine with no probs.

Day 2.... 1 fish in acriflavine tank now looks sick, I did 50% w/c in morning.

Fish looks so bad I've done anothr 75% w/c, 1 fish still looks crap, other 4 are fine

1 sick fish died tonight about 36 hours later. So far 3 dead discus (1 apparently healthy one).

I reckon acriflavine is a tad strong for sick fish... (not that I thought the sick fish would make it, but the healthy one deserved better).

The main tank is still getting copper... but my loaches and plecos are suffering... pulled a really nice loach(hoping it'll make it) they seem to feel it first. So hard to get the right %.

Sigh.....

Still trying to figure out what went wrong... 1 year 4 months no probs.....

peety :'( :'( :'(