Lost 2 Discus....need your help

[GinaC56]

Appreciate any help!!! Here is some info. Lost 2 Discus since last nite...

Physical condition of the fish:
1. visible parasites (describe)      NONE
2. stringy feces      WHITE FECES ON 1 DISCUS
3. head standing         2 OF THEM
4. bloated/ constipated      DON’T THINK SO
5. Hole in the head, lateral line erosion   NO
6. spots, salt like flecks, velvety appearance,cotton like growths etc. NO
7. excessive slime production      YES ON A COUPLE
8. labored breathing, disfunctional gill   NO
9. cloudy eyes         NO   
10.darkened color         YES ON A COUPLE
11. faded color         NO
12. other unusual changes..      NO   

Water parameters
1. pH?            6.7 TO 6.8
2. Temperature…      84
3. hardness?         GH IS 9
4. conductivity?         KH IS 2
5. TDS?            WHAT IS THIS?
6. R/O (reverse osmosis) filtered, or Tap (well or chlorinated city water), rain water A MIX OF R/O & TAP
7. Water change regime? ( example 30 % daily, weekly monthly etc)    30% EVERY 2 WKS
8 Appearance (cloudy, green , clear, yellowish etc)   NO
9. Odor (smells clean or sulfur-lit match smell-anaerobic indicator)    NO

Tank parameters
1. Size in gallons/liters?      215 GAL
2. Substrate.? (bare glass, gravel, sand..)FLUORITE GRAVEL
3. Planted?         YES
4. Drift wood?         YES

Filter types
1 Wet/dry?         KENT BIO-ROCKER
2. Canister?         NO
3. hanging box( aquaclear whisper etc)?   NO
4. sponges?         NO
5. supplimental Peat filter?      NO
6. supplimental air?         NO
HAS CO2 INJECTION SYSTEM
7. Carbon, resin exchanges, ammo-chips etc    ACTIVATED CARBON AT TIMES

1. Hood            YES
2. bulb type size, watts, spectrum 360 WATTS
3. light/dark cycle (number hours on/off)   WAS 14 HRS ON PER DAY LOWERED SINCE FISH GOT DARK

General
1. Diet(what and how often do you feed you fish?    BLACKWORMS, LIVE/FROZEN BS, FEW WHITE WORMS & GRINDAL WORMS, WHICH WE CULTURED OURSELVES. FED 3 TO 4X a DAY
2. Other tank occupants than discus? 5 CORYS AND 100 TETRAS
3. How many Discus in your tank? WAS 26 NOW 24 :'(
4. How long have you had them?   2-1/2 WEEKS
5. Where did you get them (breeder/ Local Fish Shop -LFS) BREEDER
6. Tank and filter cleaning schedule? 30% WC EVERY 2 WEEKS
7. Medications/ salt treatments recently used or tried to treat this problem?            KENT PARAGUARD, MEDICATED FOOD WITH METRO FOR 5 DAYS AS ADVISED BY LPS

The Flubenazole will arrive tomorrow. Does this seem like parasites or caparillia, or something else? Do you think the Flub will help??

We are also having trouble with the PH fluctuation. This morning it was 6.81 – was 6.64 last nite. Is this to much of a fluctuation in a few hours?? Used Bio-Sulphate, but that too, seems unstable. Can it be the Kent Bio Rocker we are using? Any comments on using the 6.5 PH product? (not sure of the correct name).

Will use the Salt tonite, should I use Epsom or Kosher type?

THANK YOU !!!! GINA

[Francisco_Borrero]

Hi Gina:

I can't tell what the problem is, but I do detect a few things that are prone to end in problems.

1- You change 30% water every 2 weeks. Most people advise/use much higher w/c regimes. I change 30-50% daily.

2- You purchase some new fish 2 1/2 weeks ago, and they are in tank. You did not quarenteened them, or did not do so long enough. Fours weeks minimum is a good rule of thumb (I normally use 8 weeks at least).


Both of the issues above need to be modified (IMO/IME) in order to be successful with discus, although other people may do differently. I can almost bet the problem was caused by issue # 2, and then it was exacerbated by issue # 1.
I would not be using any medicines at this time. In my case, I would probably use just heat and salt to solve the inmediate problem, but your plants are not going to like this.
Only after identifying a specific disease, would I consider using meds. As of nw, I can't tell if you have such a case.

HTH. Good luck, and keep us posted. Cheers, Francisco.

[BlueTurquoise]

Hi Gina,
I concur with Francisco for the long term.

Immediately however I recommend raising your tank temp slowly to 90 deg f and add some salt ( 3 tablespoons per 10 galon). Since you have such a large tank, move them to a smaller hospital tank if possible, else that is a large amount of salt that you will need.

Meanwhile, clean out your filters and stuff.

It sounds like one of them at least has hexamita, so a metronidazole treatment may be needed. There is some info on that available in this section of the board.

I think how they could have contracted it also is from the worms that you say you culture yourself, depending on how you culture it of course.

Good luck
Chong

[Carol_Roberts]

You had 26 (juvenile?) discus in a 215 gallon planted tank with CO2 and 30% water changes every two weeks. You feed meaty foods that hide in the substrate. Now, only 2 1/2 weeks later discus are starting to die and you wonder what medications to add.

Well, you may have purchased some sickly discus to start with, but with your set up even healthy ones will have a hard time. There is no medicine you can add to to take the place of clean water and lots of it.

Discus are different than other tropical fish.

On the one hand you have a lovely set up for a non-discus community tank. ON the other hand you have 24 remaining discus who would fare best right now in a bare bottom tank with 25% - 50% daily water changes, the temp raised a few degrees and a couple of tablespoons salt per 10 gallons.

I bet you have a lot of money invested in the discus. You also have a lot of money invested in your tank and equipment. You need to decide what you want to focus on - a planted, non-discus community tank with CO2 (and pH fluctions) or growing out big, brightly colored discus to 6 or 7 inch adult size.

Many people initially try to do both - many people fail.

Carol :heart1:

[Aquatic_Design]

Hi Gina,
I agree with Carol. You need to remove the young discus from the planted tank and place them in a bare bottom tank. Discus require very clean water to stay healthy and grow properly. You have been feeding them well which they need but the substrate in your tank will hold quite a bit of uneaten and decaying food along with all of the poop that comes with all that food. If the tank were BB you would see all of the waste and be able to remove it daily. Changing a large amount of water daily also keeps the nitrates down.
I would treat the fish with non iodized salt(2 tbl/ 10g) and raise the temp to around 90.
In about a year when the fish are mature they could go back into the large planted tank. Even then you will need to change the water more often then you are now. Discus are large fish and produce high amounts of waste.
HTH
Donna :)

[GinaC56]

Thank you for all your responses.

I had my tank for 2 months before adding the Discus. There were no other fish, except for 5 Corys.

What size tank would I need for a BB? The largest I have is a 20 gal. Is that big enough for the young discus for now? I will do the salt today and get the temp up.

I thought Discus enjoyed a planted tank or is it only when they are adults??

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again..gina

[Carol_Roberts]

How big are your discus?

[GinaC56]

Hi Carol,

They are 2" - 3"

[Carol_Roberts]

You have 24 two - three inch discus. They will outgrow a 55 in no time. I'd say a 125 would do for several months with daily water changes.

[BlueTurquoise]

What size tank would I need for a BB? The largest I have is a 20 gal. Is that big enough for the young discus for now? I will do the salt today and get the temp up.


20 Gal is a very small tank for that many discus.



I thought Discus enjoyed a planted tank or is it only when they are adults??


Discus that grow up in a bare bottom tank like it bare bottom. Discus that grow up in a planted tank like plants. In the wild, the amazon where they live has seldom live plants if any at all, mostly the only cover they have is drift wood.

HTH
Chong