Fish acting funny

[fred flinstone]

I have three tanks with discus . One is a 20 high I use for quarantine , another 20 high with three fish sized 3.5 - 5 " , and a 55 with five fish , one is a runt of 3" , the other four are 5 - 5.5" . The 55 is making me crazy ! In the 20's I can literally reach in and touch the fish , ( I don't ) they come right up and eat from my fingers , even 2 minutes after changing water or cleaning . These fish have NO fear of anything . The fish in the 55 will also come and eat out of my hand . The problem began about 1 month ago when I lost two fish in the 55 . One was a runt that was never very well , the other was a very quick downfall of a very pretty 5" leopard . The leopard got kind of dark with cloudy eyes and stopped eating , three days later , dead . I brought my temp up to 89 degrees and treated them with salt , and I saw an improvement . From then on the fish in this tank run and hide at any little bump or shadow . They will come to my fingers for food , but thats it . Another leopard gets cloudy eyes while I am working in the tank but they look better after he calms down . In the past few days a pigeon has lost a bit of his appetite , still eating but not a lot . All tanks are bare bottom with the sides , bottoms and backs painted black . All have air driven sponge filters . My tank water checks out at 6.8 ph, temp is 85 degrees, 0 ammonia , 0 nitrite , 0 nitrate . I change 50% every two days . I age my tap water in rubbermaid containers with an air driven box filter filled with chemi-pure . Ph is 6.8 , just like the tank . They appear to be passing normal feces , although I don't often see anything hanging from the fish like I do in the other tanks . They breath normally and do not scratch or headstand . No apparent body injury's , lesions or excessive slime . They eat earthworm flake , krill/spirulina flake , omega one first flake , omega one kelp flake , tetra color bits , frozen bloodworms and live blackworms . All these fish are from the same breeder and aside from the two runts are very nice fish . I have some medications made by " Huey Hung " , one for capallaria and one for tapeworms and flukes . I also have Kanycyn . These tanks are only five feet away from each other . Any ideas ?

[Francisco_Borrero]

Hi:
I hope that several people offer advice, so you may have a "balanced" view and make some decisions. I don't know what the specific problems are but I do detect some problems that would concern me if these were my tanks:

1- 55 gal (and all others). While some people change even less than 50% every 2 days, I consider much superior to change some volume every single day, along with vacuuming the bottom. Even if only 25% of the water was changed daily (vacuuming bottom), that would probably better than 50% every other day, which is the same total amount. The fact that fish are showing cloudy eyes almost certainly indicates poor water quality, although bacteria could also be playing a role. Both conditions can be prevented by increasing volume and frequentcy of water changes.

2- The 20gal tall. Everything seems fine so far, but may not be so for long. 20gal (more like 15-17 in reality) is too small for 3 discus. Even in larger tanks, 3 is a very dangerous number to have. With time, one fish will harrass mercilessly either one fish, or the other two, making it a very stressful situation, which often results in disease and death. I believe you should pick 2 fish that get along best and leave in that tank, and put the other in the 55, which should then receive no less than 50% water change daily. Or you need an extra tank.

3- Back to the 55. You mentioned that 1 or 2 fish were "culls" that "were never right". If they are culls meaning they are small, but they are healthy otherwise, they can stay in the tank if you want them. Notice that you may not want them because you don't have much space and aren't changing enough water. If they really "are not right" meaning they appear sickly, then they need to go either to a hospital, or to fishy heaven. Otherwise you will be risking your entire lot just for the sake of the culls.

4- Finally, you mentioned your aging water filtered with Chemi-pure. I am not familiar with that product but I looked it up. Why do you want it ? Do you really need it ? do you have Chlorine (it evaporates with time and agitation) or chloramine it needs to be dissociated into chlorine and ammnia) via one of several well known (and cheaper) products. Chemipure at $5.59 for 10oz (mail order), that treats 40gal, is way to expensive and seemingly unnecessary.

5- If there is no specific "disease" to be treated, I would stay way from the meds, and just increase water changes.

I HTH. If I sounded like a know-it-all, I apologize for I don't. But I think some of these considerations may be of good use.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Cheers, Francisco.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Fred,
I think Francisco brings up some vaild points here. I am wondering though about that cloudy eye and skittish behavior. That could be simply from water quality, but I'd watch it in case it is the beginning of a protozoan probelm. Be sure that the water quality is optimum, most discus as they get older seem to prefer none Flake Foods, so with all the flakes you are feeding be sure its not fouling your water.

Do you have chlorine/ chloramines in your water?

-al

[fred flinstone]

Thanks guys , yes there is chlorine in my tap , you can smell it . The chemipure is there to remove it . Is something like " prime " better ? I age the water for at least 24 hours . Brewmaster15 , I think you are about 20 miles from me , what is your water like ? Do you think I have to get R/O ? I vacuum the bottom when changing water . The runts never grew and never looked to healthy from the start . How would you send them to fishy heaven ? Would more frozen bloodworms be better than all the different flake ? I have had them since June . They were all about 2.5" when I got them , most are now about 5 - 5.5" now . Does that seem right ? What do you do about protozoans ? I want the best for the fish that are still doing well .

[Francisco_Borrero]

Prime is a very good product and works for both chorine and chloramine. It is a lot cheaper, and cheaper yet if you buy POND PRIME as opposed to Prime, as it is a concentrated product. Best places are BigAls, Dr.FosterSmith or Aquarium Ecosystems.
Aging the water 24 hours is a good practice. Even if you replace the ChemiPure for something else, make sure you have agitation in there, the more the better.
Regarding the foods, I guess it doesn't really matter what is it that you feed as long as it is good quality food and varied. But you must not overfeed, and must remove leftovers and poop readily (daily). In a tank with substratum, this is even more important, but very difficult to accomplish.
My guess is that with an enhanced regime of water changing/vacuuming, and adding some salt, things may look much better very quickly. Do keep watching the eye for if it gets any worse despite upping the water changes, then you may need some meds. Al may be able to suggest what is best.
Good luck. Cheers, Francisco.

[fred flinstone]

How long should I keep up the salt ?