Water Hardness

[Bigmo]

I did a test for gh, and kh this morning. My gh level read 0, and my kh level was 17 ppm. My question is does this seem unusual? If so, what can be done about this? I'm on well water that has a very good filtration system. This seems very strange that the gh could be 0, and kh at 17 ppm. Actualy this was the third test on ran on seperate days. I even bought another test kit from a different manufacturer, and it read the same, 0. Any thoughts?

[Ardan]

If its 0 then you have 0 minerals in the water.


Maybe your filtration system is an RO unit.

This would not be good for fish. You need to add some minerals. Or mix with well water that is before the filtration unit.

hth

[Bigmo]

I'm not using an ro unit to filter out the water, just a culligan water softner, which apparently is keeping the gh level at 0, but doesn't affect the carbonate levels(kh)of the water. So, I should probably be adding some mineral contents back into the water, due to the fact that I'm not getting these through my tap. Is there some sort of additive I can buy? What about ro right? I will be installing a ro unit shortly, which should lower the kh levels. I'm just a little suprised that my kh levels are so high, and the gh is at 0. Any thoughts?

[Steve_Warner]

Hi all,
Hey Doug, this thread peaked my inquisitive interest and sent me on a brief quest for a possible answer. This is what I have learned about it. When you have a water body which is pure, you would think that it would be a neutral pH and have no hardness/alkalinity, correct? Well, as everyone knows, testing a pure water(H2O) body(equal parts of H+ and OH-) in the exclusion of air would equal(balance) out at a pH of 7(the negative value of the pH logarithm) "theoretically". The variable of air thrown in the mix puts various gasses interacting into the equation, such as Carbon Dioxide. Now, at atmospheric pressure, a small amount of Co2 is pushed into the exposed water body, creating (Co2 + H2O + H2O). This, in turn, will mix together and give rise to the following equation. This equation will go back and forth simultaneously(it is called "Autoprotolysis") between (Co2 + H2O + H2O <--&--> HCO3- + H3O+) This is the reason in pure water, an electronic measurement of the pH is NOT possible. So now we have a constantly changing equation and you would think it should even out and reach equalibrium, but there is ALWAYS the factor of the Co2 in the air the water is exposed to, imposing it's chemical makeup on the water body. So you have that constant pressure of the Co2 entering into the water body, creating a slightly weighted equation now, favoring the RIGHT side of the equation. There is your bicarbonate anion(HCO3-) to give you the reading of some Alkalinity, while at the same time lowering your pH (to about 6.8) due to the presence of the Hydronium cation(H3O+) responsible for the acidity of the sample. I don't know exactly how much alkalinity this process would generate/register on a test, but it could be one possible explanation for your readings and I personally found it quite fascinating. Don't y'all just love Chemistry! I DO! My quest goes on. ;) Just some thoughts. HTH

Steve

This is the reason in pure water, an electronic measurement of the pH is NOT possible.



Thank you Steve, and I was told as I metioned it before (I have read it before somewere else) that someone was pulling my leg.

Emm not meaning I understand all what you found out. ???
Ronald

[Ardan]

It would be good if you could test a water sample before the water softener as a water softener removes minerals and replaces them with sodium. Not a good source of water for discus.

hth

[Bigmo]

Ok, I don't fully understand, but thanks for trying. I added in some kents r/o right this morning, because of the low reading of gh. According to the this, the hardness needs to be measured bya tds meter, it goes on to say calcium and magnesium are a poor substitute for the gh of the water, thereby a poor test of gh of the water, which is not just limited to calcium and magnesium. I was wondering if anyone has used this product called Zoe by kent?, supposedly it provides the needed vitamins for the fish, or does the food have enough vitamins in it to sufice? Also, another question, I picked up a piece of malaysian drift wood which according from a reputable lfs will increase the gh of the water. Anyone use this drift wood?, and if so does it work?

Hi Bigmo

Pls. check your message.
I have sent a aticle about water Hardness referring to GH, KH and a chart with TDS and Conductivity. I dont know if I can post it here because of copyright.

HTH Ronald

[kevster]

How long have you had discus in water from a water softner?
I had huge problems using a water softner. It replaces the minerals it takes out with sodium so the total disolved solids is actually higher then the water before it is "softened". My discus were darting like crazy, 5 of them jumped out of the tanks, sometimes they would swim totally upside down banging into the glass and one seemed to knock himself unconcious but them started swimming again. As soon as I realized it was the water softner I ran new water pipes to the tanks bypassing the softner.
I would get them out of that water asap
kevster

[Bigmo]

Just wanted to give an update. I have been adding kents r/o right to increase my gh level. My current levels are as follows.

ph-8.6
gh-1-2
kh-17
tds-1600
My question is concerning the tds level. With a level this high will my r/o unit lower this? This measure seems astronomically high, this can't be good for my discus. I'm in the process of setting up my r/o unit, this measurement is from well water that has been filtered through a culligan water softner.

[kevster]

1st the water softner is adding to the tds.
2nd you are adding the kents r/o stuff and that is adding to your tds.
Your r/o unit will lower it but why would you add disolved solids only to take them out again. Why not run you well water right to your r/o unit.
What is your readings straight from the well before it goes into the softner?

[Don_Lee]

Better yet, run the water through the water softener before the RO and your RO membranes will last much longer!

Don ;D