heckels with reg wilds and others...

[ReeferKimberly]

i just bought myself my first heckel, and omg is he the biggest thing iv'e ever seen. i just couldn't resist.... i'm still trying to breed and have not yet had any of my fish pair off. i now have nine discus total and 4 (including my new heckel) are of breeding size. assuming all my conditions are correct, will heckels pair with normal (non heckel) discus? this question may sound dumb but i'm still new and have not had a lot of breeding experience yet. well now i'm off to another store in search of live bs and worms so i hope when i get back there may be some replies. thanks a bunch, bye all :)
kim :-*

[Ryan]

Heckels will breed with domestics just as any discus will. I think the general idea is that it's easier to spawn male wild heckels, as females don't seem to do so as easily/readily.

From what's been posted regarding breeding heckels on this board, they require a little different water conditions than what some domestics breed in, but that is probably entirely up to your fish.

My heckel crosses are, I assume, a male heckel to a female turquoise, and then some inbreeding probably was done to get the heckel bar to show through on the fish.

Are you quarantining your new fish as you get them? It would be a wise investment to do so.

Ryan

[ReeferKimberly]

yes, the new one is in quarenteen (sp.) right now. i'm not sure what his/her sex is, or any of my other fish for that matter. does anyone have links to posts or sites with the diff conditions of heckels? i have to be honest, i don't know what they are as i was not planning to get a heckel but was actually looking for some blue diamonds... thanks in advance, and thanks for the info ryan!
kim :-*

Ryan, You are correct about the male heckle being used for the cross. It is not necessarily so about the inbreeding to exhibit the fifth predominant bar .

In crossing of the Heckle there are what's known as 1/4,1/2 and 3/4 Heckles. Here is an example:

1/2 heckle: Heckle X Turquoise

3/4 Heckle: Heckle X 1/2 Heckle

1/4 Heckle: Turquoise X 1/2 Heckle---In this crossing, the fifth bar may not show up at all. The reason it is done is to get the very straight striation influence from the Heckle to the Turquoise.

Note: In any crossing, the male is listed first.

;) Joe

[Ryan]

One thing I can say for my crosses is that they have very even, complete striations from head to tail, and they have very tall fins and high bodies (compared to some of my other discus, anyway). Some show the 5th bar more prominently than others, some don't show it at all. Either way, I do love their pattern and their shape. Thanks for the info, Joe.

Ryan

Ryan, I forgot to add--Your fish look great! Joe ;)

[Ryan]

Thanks, Joe. They are still thin fish. They're not razorback thin, but small... I'm going to try a flubendazole treatment if I can ever get my hands on some. It'd be nice to beef them up a little. I'll try to take some more pictures when I start playing with my R/O unit. I'm hoping they'll enjoy softer water enough to want to breed :)

Ryan

[ReeferKimberly]

well i hope mine is a male now. i think he is wild caught and not aquarium bred but i'm not sure. his big bar (5th i guess) is fat and from top to bottom. it's not black but it's a pretty dark shade of gray. his other bars are faint. he hasn't got a lot of color to him so i don't think he could be a turq cross, he's got a leapard pattern all over that is brownish and blue. his/her ventrals are kinda short, compared to the other fish's ventrals...which gave me only the slightest hint that it could be a female. so if it turns out a female am i doomed to never get heckel babies out of it? man i wish i could just get a darn pair, this is getting frusterating. >:( >:(
kim

[ReeferKimberly]

if anyone wants to trade me a good pair of any kind (that produces regular wigglers) i'll give you:

1 three inch red turq
2 three inch pigeons
1 four inch cobalt
1 two inch and 1 four inch blues


and they are all healthy and round, u have to be close though cuz i can't afford shipping, i'm in roseville california
any takers huh huh??
kim

Kim, I am really baffled over your post about the brown and blue leopard pattern --but the one that really snagged my socks off was the one about a female having shorter ventral fins? Now I really got to see a pic of this fish! Did you get the short ventral fin=female somewhere?
??? Joe

[ReeferKimberly]

i just read it in a post today, i'll try and find out which one and post it right when i'm done typing this. i tried to imply that that was only the "slightest" hint of a female b/c i know there is really no sure fire way and most predictions are false.
kim

[ReeferKimberly]

"The top fish looks very male, the bottom one could be female, shorter ventrals and less pronounced forhead. Be paitient, Sometimes it takes awhile"

this is what i read, i left out the name of the poster and i just copied and paste b/c i don't know how to quote yet. it was a response to someone who was wondering the sexes of two different fish.

i woult take a picture and post it but i have no camera. i didn't mean the colors were vibrant, kinda dull actually, i'm pretty sure the pattern is leapard-like but i'll go have a look at some real leapards and get back to you.
kim

[Ryan]

I really don't feel that most of those sexing methods are accurate at all. I think people who work with fish a lot (it's not just discus, angels and such are similar) tend to notice things that are most likely or commonly or usually characteristic of a certain sex. This is never an accurate method though, IMO.

Behavior is often used as an indicator but it can also be inaccurate. I've seen female fish that were bullies and alpha fish that you would swear were males. I've also seen female fish in pictures that had extended rays off of their dorsal fins, which I'd always heard was a male trait.

I can tell you, though, that out of my six crosses, all of them have very long ventral fins, and none of them have dorsal extensions, so either they're all one sex, or none of those theories holds any weight whatsoever. JMO ;D

Ryan

[ReeferKimberly]

yes i was correct. i looked at some pics of leps off the pic board and that is the same pattern, just not the same colors. like has lines on top and bottom and dots on most of the body cavity, and then the character heckel 5th bar. still no one wants to trade me a pair ?!? can't say i'm surprised, with all the trouble i'm having getting one, i can understand. i have no idea what any of my fish are, i have one big aggresive one with very round edge fins, so i think it's a female but i'm only 60% sure. i just wish i could get some babies. it's been 5 months since i started "trying" to breed them but no luck STILL.
kim :-*

[Ryan]

Kim,

Breeding can depend on many factors. Water parameters, general care and diet, age of your fish--the list goes on. One of the best ways to get a pair is to buy a group of young fish and raise them up together, then let them pair off naturally. It may help you to read through the Breeding section and also the Beginners section to find out what others are doing.

Once you get a pair though, what are your plans for them? Are discus something that you wouldn't keep if it weren't for the chance of breeding them?

Ryan

[ReeferKimberly]

it may sound bad, but if there were no chance of breeding them, no i would not keep them. when i was a kid, i would never ride a bike just to ride it, i had to be going somewhere. everything i do has to have direction and have a goal and discus must as well. i get pleasure out of breeding fish and selling fry and so on. i have bred angels, convicts, betta, african cichlids, gouramis, and cory cats. discus are giving me the most trouble out of any of them. i have 7 juvies of the same size that have grown together from 1 inch up to where they are now from 3-4 inches and none have paired, they are all just aggresive twords eachother. i also have three adult discus that have been together in their own 40 gallon and none have paired....thats the tank that the new heckel is bound for in the future. i have read almost everything on this site and have learned loads about the specific temp, gh, kh, ph, ect. needs of discus and have match all my tanks to them. i have done everything right i can think of but they still will not pair for me. so now i'm thinking i will just buy or trade for an established pair..
out of ideas,
kim