short gill cover

[discuskrib]

yesterday i purchased a great looking discus. today i'm looking at it and am now wondering if it was such a good price because of a short gill cover. how bad is a short gill cover for a discus? what problems might i face in keeping him?

[Aquatic_Design]

DK,
The seller should have told you about the problem. That said I would not worry about it as long as you do not breed that fish. If you bought the fish as a future breeder I would contact the seller for a replacement or your money back.
JMO
Donna :)

[discuskrib]

thanks for the reply Donna. :)

could you elaborate on what the problem(s) would be if i did try to breed? i plan on keeping the fish regardless of whether i could breed him or not but would still like to known why i shouldn't (or wouldn't) be able to breed a discus with a short gill cover. ???

[dm]

I also have one with a short gill plate. It is too bad too. It is a PB with nice color on it. He doesnt seem to be affected by it at all. It just looks little funny.

I am not sure of the exact problems that arise from short gill plates, but I do know that you shouldn't breed fish with them so that those genes are not passed on to future offspring. Basically, it's for the good of the discus species as a whole. If I had to guess, I'd think the fish's respritory system would have to work harder with a short gill plate, but I may be wrong.

[Nate]

Breeding fish with physical defects is viewed by most as imprudent. You don't want to pass on the possibly defetive genes.

Nate

[Aquatic_Design]

DK,
It would be a huge waste of your time and money to use a defective fish for breeding. It's also the quickest way to get a bad reputation. You would be knowingly selling baby fish that either had a short gill plate or possibly carry a gene for producing it.
JMO
Donna :)

[black rat]

Donna,
Couldnt agree with you more.
Although i believe short gill plates can be genetic ,i also believe it is also down to lack of nutrients in the early days of the fishs life.
JMO
:bounce2:

[Aquatic_Design]

blackrat,
I agree that short gill plates can sometimes be caused by poor nutrition. But a defective fish is still a defective fish and I do not believe should be used for breeding.
JMO
Donna :)

Excellent Post Black Rat... More often then not short gill covers are environmental.


Mike

[jeep]

How about "flaired" gill plates?

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Mike:
What are the environmental factors that contribute to short gill plates?

[Ryan]

I know that I've read about angel fry developing short gill plates if the water quality is lacking. It's said that not-so-good water quality in the early stages of fry development will lead to problems later on, such as fin defects and short gill plates. Not sure if that applies to discus too but I thought it'd be worth mentioning.

Ryan

[Carol_Roberts]

I imagine it would be applicable to discus too.
Thanks Ryan!

[nazangels]

I have an adult female angelfish with a short gill plate that has bred for me and produced thousands of babies without short gill plates. She's not part of my breeding program now, but the biggest difference in her and the other angelfish is that her other gill appears to have over-compensated and is much larger than the one with the shortened plate. She's healthy as a horse and is several years old, so it doesn't appear to have affected her health in any way. If you look at her head-on, she looks sort of cockeyed due to the larger gill. NOT a pretty fish, but I love her. :D
Beth

[Ryan]

I've also kept and bred angels with one short plate. Some of them I bought without realizing the gills were short, and then I couldn't part with them because I liked them. I would assume that if this is mostly environmental that you could still breed the fish, however I'm sure professional breeders wouldn't do so just to be sure that nothing is passed on that may be genetic.

Carol, I went looking for the direct quote after I typed my last message and I found it. This is an excerpt from Frank Grainer's angelfish website @ http://www.geocities.com/fgrainer/ :


Failing to keep your fry tanks clean along with frequent water changes will result in both immediate and future problems...

The long term effects of improper maintenance can be very devastating to those fry that survive. They include missing ventral fins, deformed fins, missing gill plates and belly sliders (when a fish scoots along the bottom of the tank and has difficulty in swimming properly). All of these need to be culled as they are not fit to be sold or bred.

Ryan

OK,
so it's been established that short gill plates are not desireable, but what effect do they have on the fish? What limits do they place? To what extent do they affect the fish? Anyone know these answers?

Carol,

Ryan is correct poor water quality!!!

Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates/Mongenea/Nutrition....ect

Mike

[dm]

I don't see where it affect the fish in any way other than it looks funny.

Then why is such a big deal made about them?

[Ryan]

Because it is an imperfection, and some probably feel that it has ties to genetics as well as environment (both could be the case). Breeders also cull fish with deformed finnage, bad shapes, and nicks in the eyes. Do these have serious side-affects healthwise? No, you can have healthy fish with those problems. But it's an imperfection.

There's a flaw in all of my fish. Breeders would cull about half of what I own. But I love them, they are happy, and that's what's important to me. If I were raising my angels and discus to sell, would I cull for imperfections? Of course. People expect quality fish when they lay their money on the table. Would you want a discus that was missing a pelvic fin or an eye? No... and you probably wouldn't want one with short gill plates either.

JMO.

Ryan

PS - My angels that had short gill plates lived long and healthy lives just like their normal tankmates. They bred, fought, ate -- I always just thought it was a cosmetic flaw. If there are health risks and problems, I never experienced any and consider myself lucky.

[discuskrib]

thanks to everyone that posted! :D
:Dfinding out that the only problem with short gill covers was just its appearance instead of genetic was exactly what i wanted to know.