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peety
03-01-2003, 07:32 PM
I have been dealing with sick discus for about 2 months now. They seemed to come right briefly, then succumbed again.

My story is similar to the thread ..

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6719

I lost a lot at the start and 2 since. The last one was sent to the lab for tests still alive.

Results were:Histology:

Gross:   discus fish received alive. A variety of tissues was examined including gills, liver, spleen, intestines, brain, skin, and swim bladder.

Histopathology:
Gills:   Multifocal infestation of the gill filaments with sporozoan parasites accompanied by lymphocytic and heterophilic infiltrates

Other tissues:   Unremarkable.

Morphologic Dx:   Gills:   Inflammation of the gills, multifocal, chronic active, moderate, with intralesional Sporozoan parasites.

Comment:   The identity of the parasite could not be determined. There is no evidense of encephalitis.



I have previously just come off 8 days teatment of high temps (90 degs!!) + copper for oodinium, antibiotics (tricozole=metro substitute) for 1 week. Also previously had 2 weeks treatment of prazi dosing water every second day. Also antibiotics and prazi in food.

Recommendations from two vets reading from the same lab results give two opinions!!

The first suggested prazi doses again.
The second suggests formaline + malachite green doses for 2 weeks.

Two sickest fish haven't eaten for about 10 days !!
Antibiotics helped but haven't cured anything. (nearly out of antibiotics now and neither vet recommends I continue their use)

30% w/cs daily.
2 tablespoons salt / 10 gallons
Adding Melafix daily (definately helps)

Ph 7.0
Nitrates 2
Ammonia 0
Kh < 20
GH < 20

I had stopped all meds and fish started symptoms again about 6 days later.

Anyone have any ideas? 3 days in on the formaline treatment and the fish are flashing around tank and losing slime - dumped some water to reduce dose.
No prazi added as yet. (Will prazi work with the formalin/malachite mix) and am I safe to dose both at the same time).

Being careful with doses of meds has cost a lot of fish so far with no results, the last 5 fish really need a kill or cure result :-[ :-[

TIA
peety

Carol_Roberts
03-01-2003, 07:57 PM
Here is more information on Gary's fish from DAAH http://daah.info/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=1232
I hope yours don't have the same thing . . . .

peety
03-01-2003, 08:07 PM
Ohh Noooooo
Possibly.... had just got some imports in then hell broke loose !!!!

Pity the lab couldn't identify the strain in both cases !!

Whats he doing to fight it ??

Carol_Roberts
03-01-2003, 09:27 PM
The last thing posted here was low pH, but I don't know if any have fully recovered :-\

thebaglady
03-01-2003, 09:40 PM
My Gosh...that DAAH link was a scary read!!!!

Jeffery_Doty
03-02-2003, 03:23 AM
Petty,

Sorry to hear about the problems.

I think Gary is trying Neomyacin sulfate and Tetracycline in combination after talking with Cary Strong and Mike Wells. Some of these issues are so nasty it is next to impossible to come out of it without serious losses.

Very scarry stuff. Good to remember when getting new fish to always quarantine. And better yet, only buy from a verified and reliable source who quarantines their imports.

I wish you the best of luck, and hope that you can keep a positive outlook!

Jeff
Oregon

peety
03-02-2003, 06:06 AM
Thanks...
Its been a sorry house ever since this started ( a xmas present to me ) :'( :'(

It would have been easier to ditch the lot and start again but I really couldn't believe it could get as bad as it has...

I don't think it has gotten to my other tanks but I've got tests running on them too now, (planted tropical and marine).

Sigh....

I wanted a neomycin/tetra solution too, based on previous posts it would help, but no vet will supply due to them not agreeing.

I really believe the fish will die without a vet even coming close to a cure.

I would ideally dose with neo/tetra/formalin in water and prazi in food.

I don't know if any of these cancel others out but after all I've tried it seems like my only chance.....

peety (watching a discus quiver lying at the bottom of my tank... still)

peety
03-10-2003, 06:19 AM
The Summation:

Well it went from bad to worse....
BUT I stuck with the formalin/malachite mix and got some definate results. All fish went crazy for 1 day but they all regained color. The worst two fish never came back completely and i freezered them after I found out I had TB in my main tank.

Yep pretty much says it all.

Last 3 discus are in main tank since all fish had been exposed. The last discus are swimming fine now, but the question is ... where from here

I'm debating quitting entirely since TB is zootropic and remains for 2 years....

I don't understand how someone can legally sell a disease that can affect any organism for that period of time....

Now my last discus are swimming happily and i recall how beautiful they all were.... (I can't express my sadness that someone sold me infected fish, I don't believe it to be a disease that a breeder would not notice).

My vet says that a large proportion of fish in NZ are TB affected... anyone out there agree ??

Who the hell says thats OK???

Peeved and missing a lot of friends

peety

jim_shedden
03-10-2003, 07:48 AM
Peety ...............that is horrible andI feel for you. But before dumping the hobby altogether send a note to Brewmaster. He might be able to help.
\
Jim

03-10-2003, 01:21 PM
Peety: the major factor of dealing with this ailment is to prevent it from reinfect again. Each tank of diseased fish has their own specific character. Cross Contaimination will no doubt re- infected the fish again and again. The lingering effect is very tiresome to hobbyist and most eventually will give up. The pathogen was originated from imports which passes on to LFS tanks and completely wipe out everysingle discus in Hobbyist tank. Not one single discus can escape these airborne pathogens. I will not elaborate this topic on the public forum. I call it sandwiches disease. You know what I mean when they lie on top of each others. It has been around for a long time and had destroyed many hard working men's dreams and business.
Jimmy.

peety
03-10-2003, 06:06 PM
Yup I want to keep going but can't see any way of not killing all plants and fish and dosing all equipment to give myself any chance of staying in the game. Thats over a hundred fish!! (Not all discus).

By the way, one day after being in the main tank, two of discus have paired and laid about 100 eggs, i guess they don't appreciate the situation...