Light level thru glass lid

[Harriett]

I have a question and would appreciate feedback from you planted tank devotees out there. I have 400w of compac flourescents with the bright reflectors from AHSupply on my 180g tank. I have NOT been totally happy with the light level and growth over the last 6 months or so...my tank has glass plate tops (with the rubber hinges to open at the front to feed, etc). Last night after my water change/tank cleaning, I decided to put my canopy back on and NOT put the glass on first. The amount of light in the tank increased dramatically. I am concerned about the possibility of the discus doing a 'free willy' and smacking into the hot lights or the edge of the reflector....what's the likelihood? They are not skittish by nature and if frightened don't tend to jump, they tend to dive away. Do you guys have plates between the tank and your lights? My fish do not seem stressed from the higher light level (Lots of places under wood and plants to be in the shade) and the plants are of course thrilled. Thanks in advance for feedback.
Harriett

[ChloroPhil]

Harriet,

I do the exact same thing with mine and I have no problems with fish getting into the lights. I personally think open top is the way to go with planted aquaria.

[dm]

I have over 2W/gal and just go on top of the glass. I just try to keep the glass as clean as possible. :-\

[Lazonby]

I agree with Biotypical. I've removed the glass on all my planted tanks. I just got tired of cleaning them every week! Now I have to add water all the time to replace the evaporation. :pffft:

But it sure does make it easier to stick your hand in there if you need to adjust something :)

[slim]

I would like to hear some more input on this. I only have 1.5 watters/gal and I would like to maximize its potential for my plants. Removing the glass seems like a simple way to do this. Do I need to worry about the lights getting wet? If I remove the glass should I raise the lights up about 6-inches?

Thanks-
slim

[ChloroPhil]

It all depends. I've got my lights running about two and a half inches from the surface. I've also got a tank full of plants so the fish are very comfortable and don't jump.

[thebaglady]

Hi Slim, Depends on what plants you're doing, but I think you need more watts per gallon. Correct me if I'm wrong folks, but isn't it better to have like 2.5 or 3? ???

[Qbal18]

ya i have taken off the lids on all my tanks even even my non planted ones just for the ease of moveing stuff around in them. and to keep plants you really need at least 2wpg the more the better but with more then 2wpg you sould have some form of co2. DIY or pressure.

[ChloroPhil]

You could grow any number of Cryptocoryne, Aponogeton, Anubias, Bolbitis, Java Fern, and Java Moss at 1.5 w/g as long as the tank isn't too over 18" tall or you were using CP fluroescent lighting. You won't likely have much luck with shorter plants except Anubias nana, but as long as you keep your plants tall and/or planted on something closer to the light you should have no problem. This would be an ideal candidate for a planted-wood tank.

[dm]

Biotypical, are you suggesting CP lighting is not as good for plants?

[ChloroPhil]

Not at all, it's actually better in most cases. In tanks taller than 18 inches regular fluorescent lighting doesn't put enough light to the bottom of the tank for many plants. CP Fluorescent pushes a lot of light to the substrate on tanks higher than 18".

[dm]

That is what I thought. I misunderstood your post. Thanks.

[Harriett]

Thanks to you all for responding and running this thread. I have noticed a couple of things since I stopped using the glass plate covers:
light hits the bottom of the tank much more readily (24" deep tank), intensity of light seems up by a good 25% (I did clean the plates every week, but between the thickness of the plates, which were lightly textured, and the addition of the built in 20" wide glass brace across the middle of the tank, there was a lot to get through!);
the plants are pearling way more;
no new algae development. I have not had algae problems in this tank since it settled in--but recently, urged a friend, I started really pumping it up and ended up with a moderate algae outbreak (grumble grumble) that I couldn't seem to get rid of. Now the whole tank seems to be balancing out again with better growth as well.
Best regards,
Harriett

[ChloroPhil]

Yeay!!!! That's what we're looking for, congratulations Harriet, time to get out the pruning shears.

[Ralph]

That's great Harriett

[Harriett]

Yup! It's balancing out again and I am tickled....for my big treat, last night I threw 2 dozen cardinals I have been QTing for 10 weeks into the big tank and it was just fabulous!!! The discus wondered if this was some new kind of candy briefly but then they gave up....everybody's being very civil! In a couple weeks I'm going to drive out to Cary's again (about 5 hours) and pick up my last batch of babies and call it a day. I have 9 good sized juvies and a humble assortment of dither fish in this planted 180 and I am just LOVING it!
Best regards all,
Harriett

[Ralph]

Cardinal treats hmmmmm yum.

[Harriett]

It IS amazing that I am losing over a gallon of water a day to evaporation with no glass to lock it in! Used to lose about 2-3 gallons a week max. Glad my cats haven't figured out that it's better fishin now than before!

[thebaglady]

Harriet,

Oh what a nice big tank...maybe I should re-name myself thejealousone!!!

I'm curious not about evaporation, but by loosing heat. Did you have to crank up the heater to keep it at a constant temp. once you removed the tops?

[ChloroPhil]

I haven't found much cause for heat loss with an open top. In fact, I'm sure my lights increase the temperature while they're on.

[Harriett]

Well, not exactly. I have a big wet/dry in the cabinet under the tank and have 2 300w heaters in the sump that I never crank up that much. The lights put out a lot of heat (good in winter, not so good in summer). I did notice about a 3 degree drop when I nixed the glass plates and so just adjusted one of the heaters up a bit. End of problem.
Best regards,
Harriett

[thebaglady]

Good point Phil! 8)

[Harriett]

Yeah, good point, Phil! hee hee hee
Harriett

[thebaglady]

Forgive me guys....it's my environment here, living in the coldest state in the nation (MN) Plus, I've never owned any discus....I'm really hung up on the heat thing

Which plants will take the heat (almost all)

Do certain backgrounds keep the heat in (like styro under the tank)

Tops vs. no tops (3 degrees difference = not much)

I'm in a learning mode here so i thank you all. I've never had any big tanks with fancy lighting, but someday.... sigh
The other night at our Aq. Society meeting, we listened and saw pictures of a guys homemade plywood tanks.

They kept gettign bigger and BIGGER till soon they were sittign on concrete blocks and needed six guys to lift them EMPTY!!

[Harriett]

Just wanted to share what happened--my original question was about removing the glass plates and asking for feedback on flying fish. I felt pretty confident after everybody's advice (thanks for feedback, everyone). I took them out a couple weeks ago. Friday afternoon one of my teenagers fed my guys and left the canopy hinge open (creating a space about 8 inches wide at the front of the tank that was open). My favorite gold pigeon (NO peppering, brilliant gold with red/blue fin coloration, > 6" from Cary that I raised from a little pup) did a kamakazi and was found as a crispie some time later by the then hysterical teenager. I am SO BUMMED. I still want to go without the glass, but have learned the lesson about keeping the canopy lid down...the hard way. I have never seen any of my guys try and jump. Guess it was just one of those things. I'm driving out to Cary's in a few weeks when he gets back so I'll try again. He has a gorgeous pair of gold pigeon breeders...maybe he's got youngsters. Crap, I'm bummed....so's my poor kid. I swear I'm wondering if that one bad cat got in and scared them. (The good cat just sits and stares, the bad cat wants to go fishing and so isn't allowed in that part of the house....but he can be a sneaky little devil. He leaps at the glass...sure is a good mouser, though.)
Best regards,
Harriett

[ChloroPhil]

Harriet,

I've had very reliable sources tell that glueing a strip of glass or plastic an inch or so wide around the inside of your tank will keep fish from jumping out. The rational being that fish jump because they are scared and run in a straight line, come to the glass, and swim up because they have nowhere else to go. This way they'll end up with a bumped nose, but they'll stay in the tank.

[Harriett]

AHH, that's an idea! For the moment, keeping the canopy closed and kicking myself in the *** for not being clearer with my well intended family. Jeez, it was a great fish.
Thanks for the tip!
Harriett

[thebaglady]

Harriett,

Another option, Killifish owners often lower their water level. In the case of discus, it would have to be 4-5" (I don't know, I don't own any discus yet)

Light travels through air easier than through water so the plants do well. The fish jump, they just don't get to jump OUT.

We all feel for you. It's hard to loose a good fish for any reason, but especially for a stupid reason like it was frightened and decided to go flying!

When it happens, its usually my most pretty, most healthy fish!! just a bummer. :( Sorry for your loss.

[Harriett]

Thanks for feeling my pain, baglady! Good suggestion, though I like the look of the tank full--I thnk I'm going to go with just being diligent about keeping the canopy lid down--there's nowhere for those fishies to go except back down into the tank, for the most part if I do that.
It is wierd how the other fish seemed to act the 2 days or so after the suicide...everybody looked fine, ate fine, etc. but they seemed a little odd--like subdued? Certainly the pecking order was scrambled a bit. But, since their brains (and so presumably memories) are the size of a pea, they've now returned to their regular fishie selves.
Best regards,
Harriett

[thebaglady]

I have seen so many "Far Side" cartoons about fish suicide, but when it actually happens, it's such a bummer. :(

I have a good killie friend who has a very large tank with lowered water level and it looks really cool. A lot of the plants grow emergent, out of the water, and flower etc... Some of the crypts, that's the main way to tell which one you have...by the flower. It's just another option. He has no top on this tank, just the lights.

[Harriett]

Sounds like a wonderful tank! I have thought of setting up a tank sometime with lowered water level, emergent plants, some amphibeans, etc....kind of a more subdued take off on my teenaged dream of a sunken tropical living room--kind of a combo conservatory/aquarium/terrarium sort of a thing....somehow I never got the entusiasm from my family I'd need, to say nothing of the concrete reinforcements in my old farmhouse, to pull it off....ah, it's good to dream.
Harriett