View Full Version : Is there a cure for egg eaters...
In case anyone's read the story of Eesob, well he's still at it as hot and heavy as ever.
He's approximately 16-18 months old by now. I've de-fluked him and I've de-wormed him. I put a divider in the tank for 2 months and when I removed it the egg addiction lives on as aggressively as ever.
I know most will say he's ruined, but I know there are a few that have had success and one person said he's never had a discus that he has not been able to cure of this irritating habit.
Any other ideas other than to fillet him???
brewmaster15
03-12-2003, 04:51 PM
Brian,
send him to me. :)
-al
Seriously though, did you ever find out if the fish in question was a male?
DarkDiscus
03-12-2003, 04:52 PM
Talk to Jimmy - he had a great plan for elimination of Egg Eaters, but I couldn't find the thread for you!
John
chuck
03-12-2003, 04:56 PM
make a screen out of plastic gutter screen (sold in Home Depot) and some cable ties, put the netting around the pipe after spawning remove when the fry hatch.
that's what I do....
chuck
Al, I'm very confident he's a male just by his build, although I do realize the proof is in the wigglers. Gabe agreed if that means anything.
Jimmy's given me some suggestions that are really worth while and I hope he sees this thread. I think it was Dennis that said he can cure them.
Maybe I can swap females but the only other female I have is on a 6 day cycle and I'd hate to break it. My other male is either sterile or not mature enough yet but he sure does try his best. He would be the ideal dad...
Chuck. I've never gotten that far. He'll ram her and suck the eggs as fast as she can lay them... He's never attempted fertilization.
brewmaster15
03-12-2003, 05:00 PM
Brian,
How long after the eggs are laid does he eat them? and have you seen it make passes?
brewmaster15
03-12-2003, 05:01 PM
never mind that last question.
The only Time I saw that was when the male was a female!
-al
chuck
03-12-2003, 05:07 PM
I've had that happen with new adults but after the 4th time he stopped...
I think it just takes some time to get it right..... ;)
Brew has a real good point maybe he's a she. I've seen females pair off and act just like a real couple....
chuck
Is there a reason one female would never lay eggs while the other female does all the laying?
Another reason I think he's a male is because of a fight he (it) got into with my other male. I think he's attracted to the other female and when I had to put them all in the same tank one time he immediatly went to her. The other male got really angry and a huge fight almost killed Eesob.
He has participated with the other female in laying eggs but he did the same thing. The only time the eggs were not eaten was the very first time. This is going on 20+ spawns...
Maybe it's just all mixed up ???
P.S. Frank wants him too. Just my luck I'd sell him and hin and the flight to a new home would cure him.
brewmaster15
03-12-2003, 05:15 PM
I know it sounds cliche and its always posted , but unless that fish actually makes passes and fertilizes the eggs, it could be a female. I have had several fish that I swore were one sex and turned out after much wasted time to be the other! :'(
If you have a community tank of discus, take that pair and put them with a bunch of others and let nature pair them up. If they do spawn in that tank, The social pressures of defending territory may be alls thats needed to make it a better mate.
hth,
al
To show how bad this fish is, I origionally had 4 discus in a 50g tank. The fish in question would make it's way to 2 of the females as they would spawn, eating the eggs every time. It didn't matter to him, he just wanted the one laying eggs.
Before I knew better, I separated them thinking I had a pair just because I saw eggs. Then the 4th fish, who I thought was a female, turned out to be a late developing male. He has tried his best from the very first time. I guess it could be a female as well but it tries so hard and defends the eggs fiercly for up to 5 or 6 days.
These are Blue Panda's and I have heard that some lighter colored fish mature much slower than some.
As far as reintroducing them to a community, it would either have to be the other BP's or my juvies. I think my juvies are still too small to trust with adults.
Oh well, I'll just keep bringing up the subject from time to time. Maybe by that time one of my juvies can teach him ;)
Thanks,
brian
brewmaster15
03-12-2003, 05:30 PM
Brian,
Can this pair see the other pair clearly? If not, maybe you can try making it seem like they are competing for the same area by placing them side by side?
-al
Yup. Tried that >:(
Maybe I'll try putting them all in the same tank together and have a divider ready just in case???
Brian
fcdiscus
03-12-2003, 07:05 PM
Want my address Brian? ;D Frank
mench
03-13-2003, 12:36 AM
Brian,I know just what you are going through,I have egg eating pairs also...my one pair goes just a bit farther...they let the eggs hatch and almost get to the free swimming stage..then..LUNCH time...I have seen them do all the good stuff,fan,move the wigglers to a clean spot on the cone...hell they even went free swimming for two days before they ate them...yep I have tried all the tips,removed one or the other fish,screened the eggs,kept the tank covered,let them see the other pairs,not let them see the other pairs...NOTHING has worked..last week they ate the wigglers again for the umpteenth time,this Fri.morning I was going to take them to my friends house to see if he can get fry from them but last nite they spawned again...there is nothing wrong with thier spawning...I screened the eggs again...well maybe next week I will get them to my bud...they always seem to have a large hatch...and it is a real nice pair,very large...male is a blue snake and female is a red turk...Hang in ther Brian,I guess I don't have anything new for ya to try.
Mench
Mench,
Have you tried de-worming? I think I would be more irritated if they ate them after the hatching than before being laid. If I do get them that far and he eats the swimmers the he's on his way to Franks... :(
EthanCote.com
03-13-2003, 01:42 PM
Is this the fun I can look forward to when my pair attempts to breed for the very first time? ;D
It would be quite interesting to hear what Simply members went through on their very first spawn.
As for Jeep, the fish in question in term of sex, do you see any bulge around the stomach area before and after feeding? From my pair I noticed that before feeding the female body tends to bulge a bit (I imagine due to her carrying eggs) and this bulge is more noticable after feeding.
I imagine this is one good indicator of sex determination when fish reach maturity.
Wish you luck with your fish.
Cheerio,
Chi.
No Chi. poor indication. You fish is just a good eater. Really like their food and nothing else. You can't see the eggs. sometime a runted female will lay a large number of eggs makes you wonder where does she keep all the eggs.
Jeep: I have no answer for you. You had de-fluked, dewormed, de-parasited your fish already. The next thing is de-headed him. ;D ;D I know your fish came from a reputable breeder. My other guess will only apply to the imports from Asia where CR6 or CR5 is a routine feed before shipping to get rid of the peppering and brighten up the color in order to boost sale. A little bit is a good thing IMHO. If the feed was too aggressive. That will destroy their reproductive organ and became a CEESOB. There's no cure.Some males will fertilize a cube of BH during every feeding. Most will never know their gender till the day they die. They will dance and do all the pre-spawning behavior but never laid a single egg. If you trying to check their tube. There's none. Same thing happen if excessive Amino Acid is given in their feed. The male will build a heavy chest and the sex organ just simply disappeared.
Jimmy.
EthanCote.com
03-13-2003, 03:02 PM
True observation indeed Jimmy and yer prolly rite about it ;)
But sometimes I observe that after a bit of eating, her stomach tend to bulge considerable. I imagine the egg sac is there somewhere and with the addition of food, she tend to bulge quite considerable when compare to the male who more or less eats the same amount of food but don't bulge much at all.
Anyone else notice this?
Cheerio,
Chi.
mench
03-13-2003, 06:17 PM
Jeep,they have beem de-wormed,de-fluked,de-gased,de-everything.....
They are on another spawn right now,I sereened them again to try it again,if they eat them this time it off to my buds house,he seems to get everything to breed....
Mench
saints27
03-13-2003, 06:47 PM
Jeep
Do or have you ever seen his/her breeding tube extended?
Mench
With all the times that your pair have spawned and eaten the eggs , have you tried different water conditions?
I have pairs that will eat eggs until I bring there water down to about 5 pH ,they will even let them hatch and free swim at 6 pH but eat them after 2 days as soon as I get it down to about 5 they are fine.
its what works for me
Jamie
Jamie, Although I've never seen the tube extended, what is there is much smaller than the females even when she is not spawning.
I really don't know what's up, but in my inexperienced opinion I have 2 males. One has never attempted fertilization and the other has tried his best at least 30 times and at 18 months is still not producing wigglers.
I won't give up though. At least until my next group is old enough...
saints27
03-13-2003, 11:44 PM
As I said to Mench have you tried different water parameters?
Jamie
Is he cured?
I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I caught him munching away last night so I took a soft tube from a bubble wall and smacked him in the head several times. Don't worry, the only thing I hurt was his feelings.
Well, this morning all the eggs are still there. He's fanning them and now won't let the female near the eggs.
Ha, now if I can just get him to fertilize!
hunterbeav
04-10-2003, 03:28 PM
The next time he starts to eat the eggs pull him out by hand AND BEAT HIM LIKE A DOG. Then gently put him back in the tank and go about your busness!!! That should do it :)
Fish_Fin-atic
04-10-2003, 06:50 PM
I think this would be a good time for somebody to invent the "Discus Muzzle" It would have a harness that would attach to the Discus' gill plates, and a mesh covering right in front of the mouth. THAT would stop these CEESOBS!!! Maybe a tube built into it so that you could feed the fish without having to take the muzzle off. I think I'll start working on a prototype right now. ;)
Richman
04-10-2003, 10:09 PM
I have a pair of red turks that have given me similar trouble since they started spawning last fall. The are in a 30H with about 12 gallons of water and a Hydro III sponge filter. 75% RO and 25% aged tap water. The water has not shown any problems since I went to RO and I keep daily 50 percent water changes. Spawns have always been at least 90% fertilized. They ate the first dozen or so spawns, then started hatching and eating free swimmers after one or two days, then trying to spawn again. Female was the primary culprit but when I removed her the male either slowly ate them or they wouldn't attach. Their behavior has always been skittish with or without eggs or fry. They ate sparingly and only when I left the tank. I have been at my wits end with these fish. It has been going on for months.
A while back I had a heater go out when a batch of fry hatched and posted the chaos I went through in the breeding section. I removed the female and the male threw all the fry off violently and they eventually failed to attach and died.
When I cleaned up the mess, I cleaned the sponge filter and it apparently didn't have enough bio left. Water clouded up and the fish began to have trouble. Wc, wc, and I added a HydroV that was seeded in my other breeder tank. Just unhooked the III and left it in beside the larger filter. When the water cleared up the fish behavior changed drastically . All of a sudden they come up to eat out of my hand and run to the front of the tank when I come into the room. They eat much more than they did before and you would think they are completely different fish.
They spawned (small batch), tended the eggs, protected the fry, and right now they have about 30 fry attached that have been free swimming for about 4 days. I slipped an eggcrate divider between them last night because she was doing a bit of shaking and I was afraid it was spawning signs and not caused by the fry. Right now they are being perfect parents. Still keeping my fingers crossed.
There is now about 15 gallons of water with a Hydro V and a Hydro III. The only difference in the tank is this large addition of bio filtration. I could swear there was nothing wrong with the water before, but I guess some things are not so easily detected.
Haven't yet figured out all the particulars of why this has changed their behavior, but thought it was worth posting.
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