Babies growing fast, but dying = ) please read-

[Symphysodon166]

hey guys, I have a brood of 2-2 1/2 week old Discus babies that only about 18 of them are left. There was at least sixty when they first became free swimming. Heres what the tank looks like- 44 gallon corner tank

[Symphysodon166]

Oops, hit enter accidentally
- k its a 44 gal corner, aquaclear 300 box filter- with a prefilter so they dont get sucked up taht I clean at least every other day. Water change 15% using pure reconstituted RO water of same temp or slighly warmer, and same other parameters, light on all the time, half covered at night so its somewhat dimmer,
- heres my concerns, though I dont know weather or not these are the cause of thier dissappearance- they arent being eaten cause I see bodies on the bottom ( barebottom) - siphoned every day by the way) cause the parents are eating a lot, and Im trying to give them all I can

- I was thinking that their fighting might be killing the babies, cause meaybe they get in the way. ( the parents have been pretty violent to each other since the bacame free swimming, actually causeing them a few injuries, I seperated the mother and just left em with dad. Im also concerned about the relativly strong current but dont think that would directly cause their death?
IF ANYONR KNOWS SOME PREVENTATIVE TREATMENT OR ANY OTHER IDEAS THAT MIGHT HELP PLEASE HELP ME SAVE THE REST- YESTERDAY 10 OF THEM DIED- Its like they suddenly get swim bladder and then violently twitch or swim in quik bursts, and then die- does this sound like accidental injury from parents aggrestion towards each other? sorry If I ramble on- lol THANKS FOR HELP GUYS!!-Jason

[Carol_Roberts]

It could be a bacterial infection and they are the right age for gill flukes.

First line of defense is always more water changes, make sure tank walls and bottom are clean, and add salt. If you think its flukes JimmyL recently recommended 90 degrees and 1 cc formalin per 10 gal. Add extra air if you raise temp and /or add formalin

[discus_nw]

I am curious as to where your pH is at using pure r/o water and only 15% every other day water changes? Could you post that info please? Are you monitoring your tank water as well?

[Kagan]

In addition to previous posts, it is very dangerous to use pure RO. Because you leave no minerals in the water.

[Symphysodon166]

The RO I use is reconstituted with kent R/O right

[Kagan]

Hi,

I still insist that you should use tap water, not RO water. I do not think that it gives hardness to water, which means the most important minerals for the growth. Thats why we try to harden the water for the juveniles. HTH

[Symphysodon166]

AAhh- that cleared it up a bit. Thanks! what about the water that comes out of the RO unit as wastewater- somewhat filtered but not RO, or does it really need to be strait from the tap- Im just paranoid about city water = ) - Jason

[Carol_Roberts]

You can use some of the waste water to add back hardness.

[OEG]

The death i can almost guarantee you has nothing to do with the reconstitution with tap water, i have a brood of about 60 babies rt now that are about two weeks old and i have not lost a single one, heres my two cents
1 i think you should cut way back on the feeding of the parents i would only feed them live black worms and only once a day very little.
2 it could be bacterial like carol said but i think its like she said they are at the right age for gill flukes so i would use the formaling like jimmyL has suggested, Jimmy is one of the brightest people on this place. I love all his fish they look great, ok enough about jimmy. I hope you save the rest of your babies and i hope you can post some pics of them when they are bigger.
Oscar

[Kagan]

I guess my post was misunderstood. My post has nothing to do with the current deaths in my opinion. It will have with the possible future problems ;)... IMO, your current problem is most possibly as Carol said. In additon, there is a small possibility of they are getting bloated and cannot get rid of it. Do not feed beefheart or something like it for now (of course if you are giving beefheart). You can start it between 3-4th week. HTH

[Symphysodon166]

THanks guys- I went out and got formalin today, and already added a little salt and melafix, and using tap water mix- I'll post back to let you all know how they do and hopefully have pics!- Jason

[Symphysodon166]

I would think the parents would need extra nutrition just like a nurseing mother- not true? - even of course if everything is siphoned a few mins after each feeding? -Jason ???

Jason, I am adding to this post a little late but I thought I would add my $.02
Allot of people have problems with fry when they start to reach that 2-3 week point.....most of the time it is due to bacterial problems.......One, make sure that your filters stay very clean....If you are using a sponge filter, you need to clean it almost every day, and I mean take it out and clean it in a bucket of water during a waterchange...Uneaten BBS and other foods will clog the filter fast. You also need to wipe the bottom and sides of the tank down everyday.....The cleaner you can keep the tank the less problems you will have...
I dont like to raise the temp with young fry unless it is a last resort...
I see nothing wrong with using straight RO water as long as you keep the readings in check.....I keep my breeders in RO water reading about 60uS at the time of the wrigglers go into free swimmers...I slowly raise the uS slightly at each water change so time they are 2-3 weeks old they are in water reading 250-300 uS.
You can feed allot just make sure that if you do you keep up on your water changes.....Once I start adding frozen food like ON1 I do several water changes a day....It is great food for fry but will foul the water rather fast.....By looking at the belly's of the fry will tell you when to feed.
If you see a fry die pull it out of the tank ASAP.

Feed the parents at least once a day, But again stay away from food that will foul the tank like beefheart unless the parents are eating very well...I would try to feed CBW's as these will not foul the water and will also give the fry food at the same time...
I can not stress how important a clean tank is.....That is why most people lose fry.....
The tank lights...on or off is a personal preference, but either way that has nothing to do with the fry dieing.
With a tank that large 44 Gal and with a small number of fry I dont think that lack of O2 was a problem but for your next hatching adding another source of air, like another airstone is a good idea once the fry become free swimming.
Also when you go to seperate the fry from the parents, pull the parents not the fry....By pulling the parents this will cause much less stress on the fry than if you pull the fry into a new tank
I see you have a few other questions/ problems that I will not answer here on a open forum but feel free to email me if you like...................

HTH Randy

[Symphysodon166]

Thanks for that Randy. The deaths have stopped it seems, none today or last night. THere are still about 20 getting dime size now. They havent really died since the mother was taken out, left em with dad and so there arent fights. Does anyone know what food to give newly hatched brine shrimp? I want to set up a ten gallon to grow some out. Thanks- Jason

Jason no sorry I don't know, my BBS never stays around that long..If I have any left over after 24 hours or so I just toss it out anyway......If you are talking about feeding your 2-3 week old fry, I would not bother they should be on other types of food by now anyway..................

Randy

[Symphysodon166]

NO I just wanted to start raiseing my own really. BUt I niticed because one more discus fry died today, that it was definitly bloated- does this mean something nessesarily, help in diagnosis?

Jason, if the fry was bloated at the time he died you are feeding to much or feeding foods that a small fry can not digest properly...
List what types of foods you are feeding and we can go from there....
Also I noticed in one of your post that you are only changing 15% of your water, I strongly recommend that you UP your water changes...When I am dealing with 2-3 week old fry mine get at least two 50% or one 75% water change a day. By not changing enough water it allows time for the nitrates to build up and high nitrates will also kill fry...............


Randy

[Symphysodon166]

k I stepped up the water changes with a 60% tap 40 RO and they are eating BBs, crushed flake- picking at it, I am trying to feed regular frozen brine shrimp, but Im not sure any of them are eating it, they are also still nibbling of dad, which I suppose it time for him to come out? Its been 3 weeks or so now. I can control the water quality better without his pig self in there. What other foods should I get for the babies? I cant get beefheart around here for some reason, LFS said they hardly can get rid of it, so they stopped carrying it. I want to get some blackworms, I guess thats one of the best foods, and then chop them up? The only thing I really see these babies still going after a lot is the BBs. - Jason

[Symphysodon166]

The babies are finally going after crushed flakes and bits or frozen brineshrimp too. They are eating it all off the bottom now and so theres almost nothing to siphon anymore! just took a little time- They are really looking like discus now too. No more have died- so thanks very much for the help guys! ;D I have 18 left, and I can tell that ay least 10 of them should be vetry nice fish!!!! - Jason