Mixing Angels & Discus [Archive]

yippy

04-03-2003, 07:31 PM

Ardan

04-03-2003, 07:52 PM

I wouldn't mix them. Their temperament is different and the angel fish can carry disease that they are resistant to but the discus are not.

hth

yippy

04-03-2003, 09:49 PM

yeah i know but wanted to make sure - thanks!!! i'll go back to this other forum and tell the poor guy. I was advised by my discus breeder about that so i knew in my head i was right but wanted to make sure. Im not going into that other forum if they dont know what theyre talking about! I'll stay here!!!
Yippy 8)

04-03-2003, 09:59 PM

What exactly is the disease that Angels are resistant to and Discus are not? I've heard this passed on before but have never seen evidence of it. I've also seen people on this forum with both in one tank and they seem to be ok. Cary has a ton of Angels, does he use separate equipment on the Angel tanks vs the Discus? I guess he'd have to. Just trying to find some evidence of this phenomenom.

04-03-2003, 10:27 PM

I'd be interested in some hard evidence also, as I've been keeping them together(discus fry with angel fry) for one of the reasons stated above. *ie*getting picky eaters to eat. I could see how they might be aggressive toward each other(i haven't seen this personally) Is it possible this is just something that's been repeated so many times, it's recognized as fact??? Don't discus and angels live in the same habitat in the wild?? <---man i hate it when people say that!! hahahahah ::)

yippy

04-04-2003, 01:10 AM

I have just been to my discus breeders shop and she isnt on today - she will be on all day tomorrow so i will ring her for you and find out exactly about it. I know one disease she mentioned that is given to discus by angels is hole in the head. Apparently discus cant pass diease to angels though. But let me get the facts from her tomorrow and ill let you know.
Yippy 8)

04-04-2003, 01:25 AM

That's interesting....I was under the impression that HITH was a condition caused more by the fish's environment and diet, rather than a transmittable disease.... ???

AquaMan1

07-10-2003, 12:05 AM

I had a angle in my tank with a discus and the angle was cornering the discus and wouldn't let him move, and another thing is that angles supposively caring a parasite that can be dangerous to a discus's health.

bristoldiscus

07-10-2003, 06:58 AM

Any fish can pass any thing to another,if an angel can get it,so can a discus.This myth about angels & discus not mixing started years ago when it was thought that angels carried worms that would infect the diccus,wich they prob do,but if you got angels in a tnk for 2 years with no probs,and then put in a scabby discus the same would be true in reverse,there is nothing "magical"about discus,the"re only fish!! ???

bristoldiscus

07-10-2003, 07:01 AM

P.S.
Iv"E been breeding and keeping angels & discus for 20 years,and the only thing i"ve seen that gets the better of a discus in the mood for a scrap is another discus!! ;D

Paulio

07-11-2003, 10:47 PM

I think some of the word on keeping Discus and Angels together came about after breeders and stores were wiped out in the 80's. I may be wrong though ;D I have kept them together with no trouble to speak of. Bottom line is make sure you have clean healthy Angels and clean healthy Discus BEFORE you put them together. But then again the same holds true of putting any fish together.

Paul

joelfish

07-13-2003, 11:03 PM

I don't mix discus and angels because their eating habits are so different. Angels always seem to outcompete the discus for food and territory. If you let this go on long enough, the discus can become weak/stressed and then a disease can take over. It makes it look like the angel gave the discus some kind of disease that the angel is resistant to.

In my fish room, I have different kinds of SA cichlids including discus, angels and others. Unless it's a quaranteen or hospital tank, I don't worry about using the same siphons nets etc. Certainly doesn't seem to cause any probs for me.

I have had some success keeping altum angels and discus together. The altum has a disposition that is a little more similar to the discus than the scalare does.

Back in the 80s, I did believed that angels could pass on diseases to discus that the angels are resistant to. Wonder what I'll think in 2020? :o

Joel Fish

barron

07-17-2003, 08:34 AM

Hi

I agree with Arden keep them apart.

I heard they could possible breed DiscusAngels ;D

Barron 8)

fishfarm

07-17-2003, 04:30 PM

I've been keeping discus and angels in the same system, same water, same tanks for years. You have to quarantine all new fish, but once you are sure they are clean they can go with everyone else.
I don't see a temperment problem, Maybe, if you kept baby discus with adult angels, as long as the sizes are about the same they just all hang out together waiting for more food.
Any disease a angel can get so can a disuc. HITH head is caused by vitamin defeciency and dirty water. The main bugs they have in common are Hex, flukes and bacterial infections. Ken

07-17-2003, 05:48 PM

let's get both discussions all in one thread, shall we?? ;D ::)

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=10989

carsten

07-20-2003, 12:21 AM

I have a 75 Gallon Community tank with several Angels, Discus, and Rams in it. No problems at all. The Angels constantly spawn too. Babies don't last too long though :lickin:

But, I also have several BB Tanks setup with just Discus in them. I think I just got lucky with my community tank. I wouldn't keep any of my "quality" breeding Discus with other kinds of fish.

HTH

Carsten :)

Todd77357

07-22-2003, 12:25 AM

Angels will eat you and your discus out of house and tank. I have never believed that either have past disease's to the other spec. in any of my tanks.

angelia

09-12-2003, 09:46 AM

i agree with joelfish -

don't your angels race to the top every time they see you - and don't they all eat like pigs immediately when food arrives? angels don't fight about food - they fight later about territory (or so it seems in my 37 gal w/ 6 juveniles).

but in the discus tank, a brawl breaks out when the food arrives. at my place (58 gal - 4 fish) the big male starts bullying the little male and the two females have to squabble back and forth - finally everybody settles down to start looking for the food; if it's beefheart, they fight the whole time.

put all the fish together and the discus would starve!

-angelia

Tkuemmet

09-12-2003, 10:02 AM

is feeding discus home raised baby 4 week angelfish considered mixing them?

needless to say, keeping a community was not my intention...

JeffreyRichard

09-19-2003, 05:10 PM

Hi guys, I was told by alot of discus professionals that you cant keep discus with angels. I was browsing through another fish forum the other night and came across a question from a guy that wanted to add a few discus in his tank and he had 5 angels. Everyone advised him this was ok? Is this true or has the poor guy been given the wrong information.
Yippy ???

Professionals? or someone who has had some (little???) success with Discus? The Discus hobby is littered with "professionals" who have crashed and burned ... and opinions are cheap!

Ever notice that folks who make this claim either read it in a book somewhere (perhaps one of those 30 year old TFH books ...) or heard it from someone ... Research, my friends ... research

This is becoming the most over-inflatted myth regarding Discus in my opinion. "Angelfish" as a genus/species do NOT carry diseases which are fatal to Discus ... a sick angelfish can infect a healthy discus and visa versa.

Guess you can figure out where I stand ... I've had 13 years of breeding angelfish and discus, most of the time commercially, and have had plenty of opportunity to observe 1st hand.

Jeff

Terry

11-27-2003, 06:35 AM

I agree with JOELFISH angels are pigs they take all the good food.
Terry. :)

Allen Myers

11-27-2003, 10:28 AM

Jeff hit the nail on the head. Any sick fish can get another fish sick especially if water conditions and nutrition are less than ideal. I started mixing angels and discus in 1988 even though I was strongly warned by "professionals" not to do it :) Never had a problem.

Start with good clean healthy stock from reputable breeders (angelfish and discus), maintain excellent water quality, and feed a variety of nutritional foods and you will probably never have a problem either.

Allen

Willie

11-27-2003, 02:31 PM

I've had exactly the opposite experience. Put angels and discus together for six month, and everything is hunky dory. Then the angels get sick, the discus follow within 24 hours, and the tank is wiped out by Day 4. So, first hand experience here that angels and discus and cross transmit disease.

These fish were together for at least six months, so it wasn't a quarantine issue. Guess what, fish get sick even after quarantine...like every other animal on the face of the earth.

If you haven't had a problem, congratulations. But I sure don't recommend this practice.

Willie

Allen Myers

11-28-2003, 04:51 PM

If you have extra tanks in your fish room, then I would recommend that you keep your angels and discus seperate too due to the fact that angels are voracious eaters, not because you are worried that the angels will cause your discus to get sick.

Blackworms, tubifex, and other live foods from questionable resources pose a much greater threat to the health of our discus than a healthy angelfish ever could (JMHO).

Allen

tgirl6868

12-01-2003, 12:42 AM

With experience I know you will be getting a new tank or get rid of fish. Angles are just like other fish. Yes they are very nice to look at and they look good with discus. But they are protective of there breeding sight or territories. Rams are very territory too.

In my community tank I have eight little cat fish a rope fish and six discus. They all get along just fine. But if it came to breeding and you see breeding behavior with the discus then you have to think what you want to do. You can still have a community tank as I do. Once I see a fish start its breeding behavior then you would put them in a breeding tank. Its all beautiful. Discus is my first love now.......

KIAWAHKID

12-13-2003, 12:14 PM

members.aol.com:/kiawahkid/KKDIRECTORY/discus (http://members.aol.com:/kiawahkid/KKDIRECTORY/discus)

Nothing nicer than discus and altums together.

KIAWAHKID

12-13-2003, 12:26 PM

http://members.aol.com:/kiawahkid/KKDIRECTORY/discus

A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS:

PS Sorry for the duplication but I was also trying to figure
out how to use AOLs space for picture storage and get it into SIMPLY!

alex_m

02-10-2004, 03:57 AM

Hi,

IMO you should not keep discus and angels together.

Do you know that angels carry hexamita and are able to recover on their own?

Discus can't.

IMO you are asking for problems mixing those two.

alex

02-10-2004, 04:07 AM

alex_m

02-10-2004, 04:14 AM

ok David i see.

alex

CARY_GLdiscus

02-10-2004, 09:34 AM

IME they are just very mean when they pair off.

I have kept both before makeing sure lots of foods were added. Angels are fast eaters.

hth
;)

wildthing

02-10-2004, 09:56 AM

I have kept Discus & scalare & Altums together in a pool, not by choice, just prior to moving.........the Altums would bug the scalare but the discus killed all the altums....all the scalare survived...
Given the value of a discus over the value of a common scalare I would not waste water on scalare.......( true) Altums are a lot nicer
:)
jmho

David

tom.s

02-11-2004, 09:49 AM

HI ALL
in lot of my discus growout i keep i few angels and they grow fast. but i would not keep it the other way because cary right the angel eat alot faster
tom

JeffreyRichard

02-11-2004, 11:43 AM

.

Do you know that angels carry hexamita and are able to recover on their own?

Discus can't.

you're basing this on what???...if you're going to make statements that might push Jeffrey Richard over the edge of sanity, you're going to have to back it up with a study or some evidence rather than an "IMO" ::)

Someone looking out for my best interest ;D

Thanks! ;)

My OBSERVATIONS of angelfish and discus lead me to conclude the opposite ... angelfish are more suseptable to Hexamita (Spironucliosis) than discus ... I've had some pretty big wipe-outs of angelfish via hex, but haven't observed the same from discus.

If I could make a rather general statement ... and this is meant as a guideline not an absolute ... My conclusions, based on observation only, is that ANGELFISH are much more tolerant of water conditions and changes in the environment (pH, hardness, temperature, water composition) and Discus tend to react negatively to changes (they darken up, huddle, etc ...). However, it seems that ANGELFISH get sick more often from paracites and other critters, while my DISCUS tend to be more resistant. The one noticible exception is Gill Flukes ... never seen angelfish with a bad reaction to gill flukes (perhaps I'm unaware of this problem), but have visably noticed problems with discus.

ValorG

03-05-2004, 01:39 PM

I work at a pet store with people who average 30 years of experience with fish or as wholesalers and they say its ok to keep discus with Altum angels which is a wild type.

alex_m

03-06-2004, 05:23 PM

My OBSERVATIONS of angelfish and discus lead me to conclude the opposite ... angelfish are more suseptable to Hexamita (Spironucliosis) than discus ... I've had some pretty big wipe-outs of angelfish via hex, but haven't observed the same from discus.

If I could make a rather general statement ... and this is meant as a guideline not an absolute ... My conclusions, based on observation only, is that ANGELFISH are much more tolerant of water conditions and changes in the environment (pH, hardness, temperature, water composition) and Discus tend to react negatively to changes (they darken up, huddle, etc ...). However, it seems that ANGELFISH get sick more often from paracites and other critters, while my DISCUS tend to be more resistant. The one noticible exception is Gill Flukes ... never seen angelfish with a bad reaction to gill flukes (perhaps I'm unaware of this problem), but have visably noticed problems with discus.

Hello,

i agree with the statement above, however IMO and IME angels get hexamita and RECOVER on their own.

There are some instances where the infections is severe and i need to intervene.

Discus are more sensitive to hexamita and stop eating, while angels keep eating quite well.

I bet also that anglefish leave with quite a bit of flukes with no ill effects.

Discus always have flukes, but when the numbers gets out of control, they let you know.

Bottom line, IMO i would not risk the health of my discus.

alex

Wolf_Mek

03-19-2004, 07:01 PM

Well, while I am a newbie with discus in the grand scheme of things, this is what I have experienced with my fish.

Back around January 15, I bought two Juvenille discus at around 2'', one was larger than the other. I already had angels and a whole load of other not so nice fish at the time. I removed all the fish except my shoaling fish before adding the discus and put them in a cooler. To make a long story short, I had 3 angels in the tank at the time but the discus had the tank pretty much to themselves for 3 hours.

I added the angelfish slowly, the least dominant first so on and so forth. The first angel brought my discus out of hiding. By the addition of the second one, my discus were shoaling and eating with them.

Anyway, I still have two of those angelfish and have since added two more discus to my tank. The only aggression between the two species is the discus attacking the angelfish because of food. The discus are also the ones that empty out the food bin, not the angels. I haven't seen my angels attack my discus in the two months I have had them together...

...can't say that about my "shy" ( ;) ) little discus amongst themselves.

HTH, Puma

mattrox

03-20-2004, 03:38 AM

I wonder why there are so many conjuectures not based on fact that have are floating around about Discus?

Surely in the last 10 years there has been some hard research. Considering they are such a huge industry. I guess the came goes for angelfish.....

I like people explaining their experiences and making rationalizations for their observations. It makes for good healthy debate. What I don't like is so-called factes being given without reference where they came from or explanation about personal observations over time. :soapbox:

Time to step off now ;D
Matt

mattrox

03-20-2004, 03:40 AM

I guess the came goes for angelfish.....

I meant "same" :-[ ..... damn fat fingers hitting the wrong keys......

jimmybui

03-20-2004, 03:07 PM

Well, angels will outgrow discus,since angles grow faster, but discus i think to better with smaller fish that wont bully them,angels can outgrow them when they are young,that is why i believe discus is better with themselves
fishes that wont outgrow discus?
neons?
cardinals?
plecos?
cory cats? :P

alex_m

03-21-2004, 03:38 PM

Wolf_Mek

03-21-2004, 05:32 PM

Reading the other thread which was brought up, I noticed that the topic that they are very closely related was one of the major reasons you should not keep the two fish together. This argument is flawed in my humble opinion, I did some research on discus and some other cichlids to compare and contrast...

Discus and angel classification

Class-Actinopterygii
Order-Perciformes
Family-Cichlididae
subfamily-Cichlasomatinae

The above is what discus and angels share as far as specie relation. But, did you know, that Green Terrors, Jack Dempseys, Jaguar Cichlids, and convicts (as well as a slew of others include Dovii's) also share this relation. So, what I am getting at is that discus and angels are as closely related to each others as Discus and Dovii's. By using this same argument of not keeping discus and angels together because of their close relations... then it almost must be said that you shouldn't keep JD's and convicts together because they are closely related.

What else I don't understand is that everyone claims that discus are hardy under the right conditions (good temp and water quality). If so, why are they becoming sick when they are healthy and established because you add a healthy, established angelfish.

It's my experience that discus are hardy, as mine came back (very quickly) from supposidly terminal stages of velvet. As already stated as well, I have kept juvenille discus with an adult and juvy angel for 2 months with no problems between the species.

Personally, if both discus and angels are bought from reputable places, then neither should carry the disease or at least should be immune because of their healthy upbringing, then why not keep them together if you so desire.

I have seen no solid evidence otherwise, so I think it comes down to a personal choice.

JeffreyRichard

03-23-2004, 01:11 PM

I have seen no solid evidence otherwise, so I think it comes down to a personal choice.

Well said ... however, the issue frequently turns from "opinion/personal choice" to made-up "fact" about angelfish (carriers of disease) ... it's that conjecture I get riled about.

slicksta

03-24-2004, 07:53 PM

I've got angels and discus both breeding in the same tank at the same time..and they have always gotten along fine....
take what you want from that....

rdeis

03-30-2004, 11:45 AM

Do you know that angels carry hexamita and are able to recover on their own?

I've read in several books that Angels **may** carry a parasite that is harmless to them but very dangerous to discus.

I though it was capillaria (not hex), but could be misremembering. I do remember for sure that it wasn't a general sickness/hardiness sort of caution, but a problem with a specific organism.

They also said not all angels are infected, and that either way the angels could be "cured" of it through the same treatments you'd use for affected discus-- it's just that angels show no ill effects from the "infection" and just carry it as a host.

JeffreyRichard

03-30-2004, 06:04 PM

I've read in several books that Angels **may** carry a parasite that is harmless to them but very dangerous to discus.

Just because it is printed doesn't make it correct ... unfortunately I've read a lot of "myth" in the older tropical fish books ... seems like someone makes a statement and it becomes gospel ...

slicksta

03-30-2004, 07:45 PM

Jeff
it's even worse than that....people write an opinion on a web page and it becomes gospel... :P

CanadianGuy

04-09-2004, 12:32 AM

Uh-oh...I worship at the alter of the Internet! ;)

CARY_GLdiscus

04-24-2004, 12:01 PM

I mixed them many times without ill effects!

However when they pair off they are some mean suckers to all fish!

hth
Cary Gld!

Wahter

04-24-2004, 02:31 PM

I mixed them many times without ill effects!

However when they pair off they are some mean suckers to all fish!

hth
Cary Gld!

I'll say! Years ago I had a red tail black shark (Epalzeorhynchus (Labeo) bicolor) in with a pair of angels in a community tank, when the angels paired up and spawned, they chased the cr*p out of that shark (prior to that, the shark was the dominant fish in the tank)! :o :o :o

CARY_GLdiscus

05-01-2004, 06:30 PM

GET GOOD STOCK
and both can be mixed! just because one has problems does not make it fact!

GOOD GOD SOME OF YOU KILL ME LOL

FishKeeper

05-01-2004, 09:40 PM

Cary, you know better then anyone that there are plenty of so-called experts on here. They experience somthing in their tank and it becomes gospel. Just read these forums and there are tons people giving advice, its like a goddamn Dear Abby for discus. Besides yourself, how many people that are involved in this forum are actually professional breeders? Then come the importers, which I know drive you crazy (I read your posts), and suddenly because you sell fish, or buy fish, or even breed a few spawns at home, you are a marine biologist! In reality, they are members of TOOYAC. Every hear of it?? ;D

Carol_Roberts

05-01-2004, 09:51 PM

and what do you see your role as fishkeeper?

CARY_GLdiscus

05-02-2004, 11:33 AM

Well,
I think we can all help each other if we try! However I do get upset over Myth and fiction that is spread by Importers more so then hobbiest.

FishKeeper

05-02-2004, 01:33 PM

Carol,

I'm just an idiot myself, except I won't offer any sage advice. :D) I buy fish, and hopefully keep them alive and well; I think discus are beautiful, special fish and I enjoy watching them. I remember first getting into discus in the 80's when a lfs had a few hormoned fish called "candy apple reds". There was always something about discus that attracted me. Looking at all the strains that are available now, its just incredible to see. I am keeping a couple of tanks with 16 discus from different sources. I wish I had the time and space and money to have more, but I just keep what I can handle. Just an average discus keeper. ;)