is my tds too low?

[ReeferKimberly]

hi guys, i just got my meter in the mail, thanks randal!!! the tds out of the tap is around 50-53 and in the tank is goes to about 60. should i try to get it higher?? i'm interested in breeding my biggins' and actually growing my juvies ;) . thank you!
kimberly :-*

oh yeah, if ya need it:
gh = 3
kh = 3
conductivity = 103.5 (pretty sure)

[Jason]

fine for breeding, too low for grow-out

[discus_nw]

My conductivity is ~55 microseimens straight from the tap. Works fine for spawning and growouts. Discus growout in the same water they are hatched in in the wild. So are mine. ;)

[Jason]

My conductivity is ~55 microseimens straight from the tap. Works fine for spawning and growouts. Discus growout in the same water they are hatched in in the wild. So are mine. ;)


Really? just like in the wild huh? I'd like to know what your feeding them and if their not getting calcium and magnesium from your water where they geting it from? how long does it take you to get a fry to 6"+?

BTW in the wild they hatch-out in water closer to 15-20 ms and ph4 in most locales

[bristoldiscus]

Hi all,
your k.h. cant be the same as your G.H.(3 & 3??) ;D

[discus_nw]

Jason,

I stated nowhere that my water is the same as the water in South America. I said "Discus growout in the same water they are hatched in in the wild. So are mine."

Can you understand that statement?

Now, perhaps you can answer a question for me. Where do wild discus get the nutrients they need in such barren water? Answer that, and you have the answer to the question you asked me.

Also, I have no need to grow my fry out to 6". Why would I?

;) :)

[Jason]

if I had the answer to your question, we would'nt be debating the topic, you'd be reading my books. ;D

My best guess would be from the animals and plant matter they feed on in the wild, that's probably why some wilds like heckels lose their vibrant colours in captivity also.

most dicus keepers like myself, like to grow out our discus big and round :P maybe you don't ??? I don't know

Now what I have learned about growing out juveniles, in water with a low mineral content is that I can get better growth by adding minerals back to the water, wich helps me grow big beautiful fish........and that's the kind of info I'm gonna pass on to another discus keeper! my water make-up is very simmilar too hers, so I'm just offering my experience, you offered your's I took disagreement with it.

Now another tip I would like to give her is, If she raises the conductivity on her grow-out tanks, when her fish reach maturity, she can stop hardening the water, the change in water chemestry will have have a stimulating effect on the fish and help her pair them up. I know this because I have been doing this for a long time.

I'm glad that the way you do things works for you, its just that in my experience(with water parameters that are very close to hers) I feel I can offer her a better way of achieving her goals, and that's what she was asking for.

Life's too short to keep secrets and hold grudges :-*

PEACE ;)

[discus_nw]

Jason,

Man has learned many ways to manipulate nature, and while it has been shown that discus fry will grow faster in harder water than they were hatched, no one has proved they will grow larger. Eventually, the fry grown in softer water will achieve the maximum size it's genes will allow it to grow providing it has been eating a nutritional diet and has clean water.

Not being a commercial discus breeder, I have no need to manipulate nature, nor the time or desire to be messing around with water chemistry. I have really good water from the tap, and that's what get used. If a wild discus can grow to full size in water softer than mine in nature, well then, a domestic discus can do the same in captivity, after all, the genes are the same. I am not alone in thinking that raising discus in hard water is not important. In the end, we get the same fish. One man's way, one nature's way. I depend on proper diet (which does not include CBW's) and water changes for growth.

:)

I appreciate you toning it down in your last response. I understand you are not supposed to get too heated and/or controversial on the board. Is that correct moderators?

;)

d_nw

[Jason]

:thumbsup:

[Carol_Roberts]

That is correct Mat, we are all ladies and gentlemen behaving in a civil and courteous manner here. :heart1:

[discus_nw]

Mat ??? ??? ???

Who's Mat ;D ;D ;D

Although I agree with both of ya....Ive gotsta side with Jason here ...in a civil and courteous manner...of course ;)

Discus grow much faster in an environment with a high mineral content....and why wouldnt you want your discus to grow as fast as possible??

Adding minerals to water is a pretty simple matter, does little to complicate water chemistry....and the results are well worth the small effort.

JMO ;)

Tony

[discus_nw]

Tony,

reason #! - I am in no hurry. Slow is my way to go except out the door at quiting time. ;)

Reason #2 - Whoever said faster is better? :)

If I would be trying to make some money, I would most likely alter my water, but...

:fish:

[Jason]

I see what your saying,

What Tony and I are trying to do is provide the best growing conditions so our fish can reach their full potential, it doesn't have to be for commercial reasons. we're just trying to raise the best fish we can.

[discus_nw]

Jason,

I see your point of view on the topic, too. Again, though, what determines what is "best". Is faster better? If yes, why? (other han to get them out the door in a timely manner) :)

I am not saying adding to the hardness of the growout water is a bad thing. I just see no good purpose to it other than faster turnover. I still think that if nature meant it that way, it would be that way in the wild. Fish do adapt very quickly to what may be otherwise a not optimal habitat in nature. Their parameters can be stretched to certain limits depending on species.

Tony,

reason #! - I am in no hurry. Slow is my way to go except out the door at quiting time. ;)

No troubles there...see ya at the finish line ;)


Reason #2 - Whoever said faster is better? :)


1)Anyone who wants grown out discus but cant afford them.
2)Anyone who has breeding plans for thier discus
3)anyone who has bought dull drab juv's that dont color out till they're larger.
4)Discus IMO are MORE susceptible to disease and parasites in thier juvenile stages...Thier immune systems arent as strong as a healthy adult. The faster I can get em there...the better!
5)cuz I said so :P


Tony

[discus_nw]

But juveniles are juveniles because of their age, not size. Perhaps faster developement in the area of size hinders developement in other areas. By best, I meant for the overall well being of the discus not the owner. ;D

OOoook...you win ::)


Tonyhttp://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/a0/tease.gif

[Jason]

LOL!

what Tony said!

[April]

well...heres my 2 cents worth...and my water is less than yours mat....
mine is 30 ms. and about less than 1 gh and kh.
and i didnt get good growth or colour. started adding minerals and better growth and better colours.
and also was told that very soft water....is why our eggs fungus and the fry are more susceptible to bacterial problems. and also meds are more potent in softer water.
so..since ive added calcium and magnesium...things seem way better.
just gotta watch the ph if you add..
Kim..the easiest way for you would to buy some kent ro right . works good.
i myself have now just been adding some garden lime. but watching my ph and mixing it in a storage container.

[Jason]

a local guppy breeder in my area was using seachem's equilibrium, because it was less$ in my area than r0 right,

April, have you tried using it and not using it on your adults to bounce the water perameters around a bit? did it help get them in the mood? :love: :whip:

[m_m_m_discus_nut]

Both sides of this topic make good points. I also have very soft, glacial water. I will keep all of this in mind when I need to in the future. Thank you all for the input.

mmm

[discus_nw]

April,

My water dropped down to 30-35 microseimens for a few months and I had all sorts of problems with eggs turning bad. It's back up to where it normally runs now and I have a spawn of MR's @ 2 weeks fs now. Perhaps I'll buffer up the water some and see what happens.

Who's Mat? ???

[ReeferKimberly]

boys,
MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW! ::)
well all said and done, i think i will leave my water the way it is, for now. my juvies have been growing well, but i have no previous experience so i really have nothing to compare it to, i also do not know their ages and have not bothered to measure them. they eat their worms, they grow, boom. Now these darn adults....i have been in LA for the past 4 days (why i didn't respond earlier) and i was SO sure by the time i got back i would see some eggs, nothing :( . I am really just gonna go and but myself a pair and blow the $300 or so, if they don't spawn b4 august. my patience is running away. SO once i get some eggs, even some dead ones, i will think a bit more about changing my water...as i understand my water is "great" for breeding. (just tell the fish that!) thanks guys, i enjoyed the "heated" discussion. sometimes we just need a bit of riskay talk around these parts for a good read :) .
wish me, my water, and my fish luck!
thanks again,
kim :-*

Hey Ya Kim

Heated?? Naaaaw...that wasnt NUTHIN! ;D
Just a friendly little DISAGREEMENT ;)

If your happy with thier growth...Its a done deal! Dont mess with it.
Geeez....look at all the trouble you caused over nothin ;)

Tonyhttp://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/u/catsmiley.gif

[April]

LOL Tony.
Mat...the only way i or anyone here in vancouver can get eggs to not fungus is a great trick i learnt from Cary.
use maroxy on the eggs after they lay. no more fungus. just once.
glad to hear you have marlboro fry.
another thing is if i dont buffer up the water.by the time the eggs and wigglers are free swimming my ph drops way too low. so i have to do tiny water changes each day or my ph would crash. buffering helps the water stay good till their freeswimming.
p.s. Mat is the new good boy in town .
Jason no need to bounce..a 90 percent water change and a bit cooler water and they get going. but it does slide anyhow...most of the time and that gets them going. as the ph drops.

[discus_nw]

Trick from Cary? Some of us were using Maroxy on angelfish eggs when Cary still had training wheels on his bicycle. ;D ;D ;D

[Willie]

ham helper;

You're right not to mess with the water for now. I have identical water conditions and its good enough for the discus to spawn, for babies to hatch out and grow to maturity. However, supplementing some minerals in the water will make them grow faster, and you'll get better color development. But you don't have to worry about that for a while.

April: What are you using for supplement?

Willie