Water quality and Discus psychology

[tyrancooper]

I understand that one of the many reasons why discus become skittish is a decrease in water quality.

Does anyone know why exactly water quality has this effect? How is it that a discus in pristine water conditions can recognize its owner and swim to the front of the tank as if to "greet" him/her, but if the water quality goes down, the same fish becomes terrified and darts to the back of the tank? ???

I imagine that the behavior is a survival mechanism of some sort, but I am very curious about the reason(s) behind it.

Thanks!

Tyra

[McGilly]

8)

[tyrancooper]

So what you're saying is that discus have superior intellect and emotions compared to other fish? ;) Many other species of fish do not behave in this way inresponse to water quality.

I expected someone to say that the discus behavior is a result of a "fight or flight" mechanism that kicks in as a result of stress. ???

But I'm still unclear as to why the behavior is so prevalent in my discus, but not in the other types of fish in the tanks that I keep.

Tyra

[NickK]

I wonder if all of the water changes can weaken their immune systems. When I raised discus in college, I changed water once a week (20%) and they were fine. This was in a planted tank......with angels. Now I am keeping new discus in a barebottom tank, and change 50% every other day. I am having the same problems with skittish discus, and so far I am attributing this to irregular water changes.

A bunch of deduction, but I have the same ?s as Tyra.

Nick

[tyrancooper]

How can a fish recognize and interact with you one day and then become terrified of you the next? :-\ ???

Can anyone explain?

Tyra

[Tristanyyz]

They are fickle beasties...
::)

[McGilly]

8)

[tyrancooper]

The fish eat very well. I know I should look in the sickness & diseases section, but other than the occasional skittishness, my discus seem to be pretty normal. What are some other symptoms of hex?

Tyra

[McGilly]

8)

[tyrancooper]

Is it okay to treat the entire tank as a preventive measure (i.e. no identifiable symptoms)? Also, is the medication you recommended safe for a planted tank?

Tyra

Hexamita and HITH are not one and the same. The causes of HITH are still being debated by the Discus experts. Many feel that HITH is caused by a vitamin/nutrient deficiency. This usually means that the diet is insufficient for the needs of the fish. An infestation of flagellates can also reduce the amount of vitamins/nutrients that the fish can absorb and result in HITH. So while it's possible that Hexamita can lead to HITH you cannot say that HITH means that the fish has Hexamita. And using Metro will get rid of the flagellate infestation which will allow the fish to improve their uptake of nutrients. But if the cause of the problem was a poor diet Metro won't have any effect.

I would not treat a skittish fish for either Hex or HITH. I imagine that when water quality suffers the bacterial load increases in the tank and the fish have bigger things to worry about then greeting their feeder at the glass. I don't think this is specific to Discus either, but they do appear to be pickier eaters so it takes less to throw them off their food.

[paulmat]

I believe that you can have very healthy fish that just are easy to spook. I have some fish I can lift out of the water with my bare hands. do anything in their tank and they do not scare, others I have to approach very slowly and not make sudden movements around.I do not think it has anything to do with WQ or illness.
JMO ;)

Paul :guitarist:

[Steve_Warner]

Hi all,
Tyra, what city do you live in and also if you could please describe in DETAIL what all is in your tank or contacting water from it ANYWHERE? Have you taken NitrAte readings lately?

Steve

Hi,

well, discus are special.....no doubt about it.

Ok let's see.

Urine build up, fecal matter, slime production, food waste, bacteria build up etc..=change in pH, conductivity, change in osmotic pressure so forth.

Lots of things going on in our enclosed system.

We have to intervene, otherwise our fish will suffer.

A great breeder once said that people would be surprised to find that how many diseases are born due to water quality problems.

I think that discus like to be in a large group, maybe they feel safe that way.

alex

[tyrancooper]

Hi everybody!

Please don't misunderstand the motivation for my original question. I do not allow my water quality to decline to drastically poor levels! :noway: I am not able to do daily water changes but I do a 50% change once a week.

I'm just very interested in the occasional skittishness that I notice with the fish ( the reasons behind it, why it fluctuates, etc.)

Steve_Warner, in answer to your first question I live in Chicago. My discus are in a 40 gallon planted tank and share the tank with 7 cardinals, 4 rummy noses, 2 dwarf plecos and two clown loaches. I need more time to give more detail about the water parameters. I'll do that in a later post.

Tyra

[Steve_Warner]

Hi all,
Tyra, I did a quick search on the net and came up with this report. I don't know the exact area of Chi-town you reside in, but this should get a ballpark figure.

http://www.cityofchicago.org/WaterManagement/aug2002.xls

The info contained in it translates into some fairly good water from your tap that is not too bad at all. You basically would do well to have an established Nitrogen cycle setup in your tank via filtration media(sponges, bioballs, etc.) along with periodic W/C's to take out built up toxins such as NitrAte and just monitor tank water conductance. The acids produced via Nitrification should keep your pH in a >7 area, slowly falling downward(NOT crashing) to acidic pH levels due to the Alkalinity buffer contained from the minerals in the tap. I would also throw in some Philos or Golden Pothos roots to uptake NitrAtes, and possibly other waste products as well. I believe I also read on another link that Chi-town only uses Chlorine to disinfect their water supplies, NO CHLORAMINES= BONUS! Your Langelier Saturation Index reports indicate a slightly aggressive tendancy(negative sign), which is good for the pipes of the city......no buildup of minerals to clog them up. Don't fret about it, it could be A LOT worse for ya..........you could live where I live, for example. Liquid Rock-ville! Just some thoughts for ya.


Steve