blackworms...should i?

[chinoz]

I wanted to feed my discus blackworms, but im afraid that it will get internal disease. It happen to two of my discus before and they both die. I dont want it to happen again, it seems like my discus like to eat blackworm better, but im scared.....what should i do to prevent blackworms from killing my fish ???

[ReeferKimberly]

IMO
blackworms are perfectly fine.
others agree and other disagree.
it's pretty much just a judgement call on your part.
if you decide to feed them, make sure you get them from a good source with a good rep.
kimberly :-*

[discus_nw]

The only way "to prevent blackworms from killing" (chinoz's exact words, April ;)) your discus would be not to feed bw's to your discus. Contrary to what you may read, bw's are not needed as part of the diet of any discus. They will do very well without them.

Why don't you culture them yourself. It can be easily done in a small aquarium. Treat them like fish. They grow like weeds. The instuction given by the supplier is fine to keep them alive but they will not multiply in cold temp. they are warm temp. critters. They don't have winter in Ca.
Jimmy.

[Carol_Roberts]

I've been feeding blackworms for almost a year now and have not had a problem. As Kim stated you need to get your worms from a reliable source and you need to rinse them daily in dechlorinated water.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Jimmy,
I've pretty much tried every variety of culturing techniques on these worms, and I never had much success. You can do it, but these worms do not breed in captivity. They reproduce by asexual means....To culture them in captivity you need to physically break them into pieces, and each piece grows a new worm. Do-able yes,, but a royal pain in the neck, and you most likely will find that your fish will eat far more than you can produce.
jmo,
-al

Al: I throw in a handfull of Cichlid pellets each day. Thanks to my Flowerhorn who had killed a tank full of cichlid for me and left me with 50 pound of trout pellets. They consume them in no time. I never saw them split by breaking up in segments. I do find lots of small worms everytime i use them. However, I bought a pound almost 3 months ago. I still have at least half a pound left in my fish travelling box. Figure this out.
Jimmy.

[brewmaster15]

Jimmy,
Do you know the original source of your blackworms? With the numbers of reproduction you posted, It sounds like they might Tubiflex?

Even The blackworm biologist Dr. Charles drewes only sees the population doubling every 4 weeks or so, in his small scale cultures, and he attributes that to fragmentation.....

http://www.zool.iastate.edu/~c_drewes/Lvfacts.htm
Reproduction and Development: Like earthworms, each mudworm has both male and female sex organs, but sexual reproduction is uncommon, at least under laboratory conditions. Reproduction is most commonly by fragmentation


Basic method of keeping a culture...
http://www.zool.iastate.edu/~c_drewes/lvcult2.htm


If you are having great success with culturing them, you are definetly on to something. maybe its all the daily feeding of the cichlid pellets? Most of the literature warns of fouling the culture with too much food. When I cultured them it took them forever to eat a few pinches of flake.

From my understanding , Tubiflex on the other hand will consume lots of food and reproduce at a good rate, Which is why i am wondering if thats what you have.

-al
l

Al: The fact is I also have been aguing with the supplier. He said he ordered Tubifex worms from Califonia. I kept telling him they are black worms cuase they look exactly the same as the batch I got from Dan. I even mix them up together in the same container. That's what my present culture compose of. Some CBW and from Local fish store Tubifex worm or black worms. I'm confuse too. Anyhow, as long as they mutiply and they don't harbour disease. All my fish like them. Who cares? You may be right if they are Tubifex.
Jimmy.

[Fisheyes]

Tubiflex or blk worms --------That is the question

The other day I went to the local fish store to refill my supply of cbw.There was a fellow there that only works part time and asked me what I fed a 1/2 pound of worms to .
My reply was my discus of course .Much to my surprise I was told by him that these were raised in sewage which led me to believe there were not CBW as told to me by the owner at a previous time.
I went straight home and emailed Dan and he informed me that they do not sell CBW to this fish store and if I am not mistaken he said they sold to no one in Alberta due to crappy custom rule and regulation .

So what are these and what is the chances of infecting my discus.
Are tubiflex a good food for my fish or not .
Needless to say I am thoughly pissed about this and may take further action for misrepresenting a product.

Fisheyes :furious: :flame:

Ken

If your buying your worms from Riverfront...your buying BLACKWORMS....I would venture a guess ::) that the "part time" kid doesnt know his *** from a hole in the ground.
I dont think there is a store in Calgary that sells live Tubifex worms.
Tubifex are about half the size of a Blackworm... more "thread" like....and a lighter color.

Tony

[Fisheyes]

Hi Tony
It was the other oriental fellow that works there .
He is about the same age as wayne .
Anyway I hope your right
Ken

I thought I knew the differences between them. I harvest Tubifex worms in the river back home. I also bought worms from Dan with the instructions how to keep them in the frig. But my wife will not allow the smelly worms in the frig. I had no choice but to keep them in an aquarium. When I was about to run out , with the next 2 shippmets from Dan end up into a stinky smelly mess due to customs delay and 72 hours holding period in case there are bombs in it. I found the same worms in LFS as Tubifex worms. They act and behave exactly the same I got from Dan. I've been arguing with the owner. What he's selling are Black worms not Tubifex. He showed me the bill and that was the cultured Tubifex worms he ordered with half the price of black worms. Now I'm really confused. I mixed them up together in a box and they behave, look, multiply and feed exactly the same and I cannot tell the difference between the two. The question is "Are Blackworms a cultured Tubifex worms with a fancy name?" According to the links from Al, they are different. I know they multiply in my container with lots of tiny small worms when I use them and eventhough they are Tubifex (black ???) worms. They are clean and healthy and the most important thing is my fish like them. Excellent during deworming procedure with an upset stomach. They still eat like a horse if those critteres are fed. I'm one confused soul.
Jimmy.

[brewmaster15]

Hi jimmy...
some additional info...

Tubiflex and blackworms are absolutely , positively different. They may look similar but they are not. The confusion is all in the common names...which is why scientists use specific latin names...

Tubiflex... Scientifically... Tubiflex tubiflex

....http://www.hacklewing.net/worms.htm
http://www.epa.gov/bioindicators/html/worms.html


blackworms ... scientifically Lumbriculus Variegatus
http://www.zool.iastate.edu/~c_drewes/

In nature looking similar and being the same species don't go hand in hand. Blackworms have not been shown to carry disease. tubiflex has. They come from different habitats, and belong to totally different genus and species.
hth,
-al


other...
http://www.alienexplorer.com/ecology/p37.html

[Fisheyes]

Hi Al
So if these are blk worms and they come from a different source other than Dan . Do growers of these use sewage as a medium for growing??
Fisheyes :crazy:

[brewmaster15]

Blackworms do not tolerate poor water conditions and pollution ...unlike tubiflex. Thats why its so important to rinse out your worm containers daily.

Most growers would use a commercial fish food. I know Dan uses a commercially prepared salmon food.

Incidentally... Blackworms are often used in toxicology and pollution studies because they are a clean water worm.

hth,
al