Help I'm in trouble!

[DavidH]

I recently treated for hex with di-metro, fish all started eating again, no more white stringy feces, but....
I have used metro before with no trouble, this time decided to go with di-metro. Maybe I overdosed anyway lost bio in three tanks, one pair in one and juvies in the other two.
Now trying to deal with ammonia and everything that comes with it. I've been doing 50% w/c's twice daily added 1 tbls salt per 10 gals. Also using amquel. I have no mature sponges, any other suggestions or am I doing all I can?
Trying to order bio-spira, no luck finding it so far. Marineland won't sell it to individuals. My local LFS is trying to order it for me, no luck so far.
I have chloramines in tap water, 100 gal ro system still having a heck of a time producing enough water.

Dave

[discus_nw]

I'm not aware of what you used has any effect on bacteria. I know it is used to treat flagellates, a type of protozoa.

Anyone else ever have this problem?

[April]

Yes..Pat who is also in nc had the exact same problem.
he also lost his bio i believe.
maybe you can im him.and ask him what he did. i know he has to use ro ...and he also has chloramines.

[DavidH]

Thx April I mailed him, we'll see what happens.

Thx Dave

[RAWesolowski]

Dave,

I assume that you might have more than one tank and the other tank may have more than one sponge. Take one sponge from the other tank and use it to help seed your problem tank.

Second thought is to forget about RO for the time being. Do straight tap changes or reduce your RO/tap mix until your bio load recovers...

Just put 300 gallons into a 30 gallon. Kind of an oops...

[April]

if your using ro and your minerals are very low...amquel could crash your ph even worse..so be careful. keep an eye on your ph. read the back of the bottle. not sure what your ph is...but we have very soft water and amquel crashed my ph. it has a note on the bottle way at the bottom not to use on alkaline unstable water.
theres always seachem prime.
hope Pat gets back to you and can give you some advice.
I believe he didnt lose all his bio and it recovered ina few days.

[DavidH]

R A, I have three tanks set-up and lost them all.
What did you mean by 300 in a 30?, do you mean massive water changes. Again I have chloramines which makes it tough.

April, I do have soft water and have noticed the pH getting low, been trying to maintain with a little baking soda.

I was under the impression that the lower the pH the less harmful the ammonia?

Dave

[Carol_Roberts]

Good advice to change the % RO/tap so you can make more water for frequent changes. Listen to April . . . the prime WILL lower pH in soft water, it may also give you false positives for ammonia.

Feed lightly. Try to keep ammonia and nitrItes at zero.

Water changes and salt should tide you over until bio kicks back in a week or less if you are lucky.

[April]

yes dave your right. low is good . but crashing is bad..which if high bioload or ammonia...then it can crash . im not sure on how the crashing works.but all i know is not good. so keep it as stable as you can. going lower fast your fish will be freaking out .
yes forgot that part also....the amquel does give you false ammonia readings. it also says cant be used with one kind of ammonia test kit.
i thought i had ammonia once...turned out it was the amquel interfering with the test kit.

[RAWesolowski]

Dave,

I was changing water in a 30 in my office and got distracted. Started doing something else. Unfortunately, I was filling the aquarium. 30 minutes later, I had put 300 gallons into a 30. Think of ripping up carpet pad, the water pouring through the floor into the finished basement, replacing drywall.

The good news is that I'm sleeping in the house. The bad news is any thought of a new set-up is on hold. The worst news is that I lost two fish out of five.

You should be able to overcome chloramines with Prime and I like the idea of light feedings. Since your water is soft, I might forego any RO as you do your water changes.

[henryD]

I had a similar thing happened to me. I also have very soft water but did not have any chloramine.

I would not use amquel. It does give false reading so you can' t tell with a water test. Instead I would battle the ammonia with more water changes. I changed 50% water 3 times a day. I did this for quite awhile. About 2 weeks or so. I found this kept the ammonia level down to a level I was ok with. I would also did not feed as much. Since you are going to change this much water I would just use it straight out of the tap after treating it for chloramine. If you are worried about the PH crashing then you can add buffers to the water. I would think though that since you don't have any bacteria your ph should be pretty stable. ESP if you are doing so many water changes.

I also found out later that my LFS were using biowheels. Since I am a pretty good customer there they were willing to swap out one of their older filter with a brand new one. You should try that route if you have not already done so.

Good Luck and keep us posted

[DavidH]

I'm using an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kit to check ammonia levels. When I add it, it does show a lowering as I put it in. Can I trust this reading??

Dave

[henryD]

If you are using amquel or products like that you will get a false reading.

[brewmaster15]

Hi David,

Sorry you had problems treating with Di-metro, but this med itself doesn't harm the biofilter directly. It only works on protozoans, and on a very limited number of anaerobic bacteria(non-oxygen requiring bacteria) your biofilter is populated by aerobic bacteria(oxygen requiring).

I think the probelm was oxygen depletion. did you jack up the temp above 90-92?F while treating and notice any cloudiness or slimy coatings on things? A likely scenario.....
. high temps+metros sugar base = bacteria bloom....starves oxygen from your filter and fish.

I would rinse all my sponges carefully to be sure I remove alot of that Slime if present, and the filter will kick back in a few days. Until then... 50% water day and night and something like ammolock should control the ammonia. If you can keep the pH down below 7.0 the ammonia will be less toxic. Salt at 2 tablespoons /10g should deal with Nitrite poisoning.

Just some thoughts for you.

-hth,
al

[ronrca]

It was mentioned before!

Prime lowers ph in soft water?? Your experience or is this from Seachem! Its a good thing to know!

PS-Man I love this site! Im always learning more and more everyday (thats a good thing right? ;) )!

[DavidH]

Finally found some bio-spira, I'll get it thursday. I'll keep you updated on the results.

Dave

[Chris-C]

Dave,
Seachem's Prime treats for ammonia and nitrite. Also there website claims that it will not drop the pH of the water. I use the product but have not checked for a drop in pH after using it. I am attaching the product info from their website


Prime™ is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. It should be the first choice conditioner when setting up a new tank, adding, or changing water. Prime™ removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime™ converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime™ may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime™ detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. Prime™ also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Unlike competing products, Prime™ is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime™ will not over-activate skimmers. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water. A 100 mL bottle treats over 1,000 gallons, much more than competing products..Marine and freshwater.

HTH

Chris C

[April]

Amquel lowers the ph. and if you go to the bottom of the container.you will see in tiny writing. Note: not to be used with alkaline unstable water. use the dry one...which they have.
im sure prime is fine as i ve used it..alot and no problems.

[Shari]

I've used Prime since day one - and if you have an ammonia peak you can up the Prime ( up to 5 times the normal amount I think it said) for a couple-three days until you get the filter back in order. Along with the wc's of course.
I've discovered also if your ammonia is 0 the Prime registers it correctly, if you have a peak it may make it look worse than it is (like AmQ does) in the Chgo IL area at least - also go by how the fish are acting...