Violet Reflection

[Discus Fantasy]

I have some 2 inch Violet Reflections available. If you're interested please contact me at 972-679-9162.

P.S. I have more coming in soon!
-Danny 8)

[chuck]

danny, Got any pic's of them??
chuck

[Discus Fantasy]

This is the pis of my Violet Reflections.

Danny :)

[Miles]

Danny,
Do you have any better pictures? They look really runted!! And should of been culled. Looks like a bunch of runts and culls to me.

:-X :-X :-X :-X

Miles

[dred]

Miles,

Ok, so I'm a newbie. And, they look fine to me. But, since I was planning to drive 5 hours to see them in person tomorrow - can you tell me what you see wrong with these juvies?

The picture of the adult on his website is very beautiful.

And, sorry if I missed some sort of inside joke, but 12 discus is a serious investment for me, and I plan to grow them out to be as large as possible - I don't want to handicap myself from the start.

[afick1975]

I have seen Danny discus and they were always A quality.


Andre

[chirohorn]

I would not call them culls by any means.

[Miles]

Well yes I will tell you their flaws.
1. Look at the eyes- big eyes small body= stunted
2. Shape, football season is over with= discus are round like a basketball.
3. Look at picture of fish on left eye, pupil is smaller than normal=cull fish. Check other fish for comparison.
4. If I had a better picture as requested I could tell for sure.
5. Danny how old are these 2" fish?

Have A Good Day
Miles

[John_Nicholson]

For my opinion please come see me at www.daah.info

-john

[chuck]

I don't see anything wrong with danny's fish..
No Arrow shapes...
No Large eyes...
all the fish in the picture have the same eye size...
Grant the picture is not the best but you can see that those fish are not runts...

Go for it Dred...

JMO
chuck
Ps: some of the pictures danny and Jeff has on there site are from Wayne' NG discus book and are just representation of how the fish should look like. You have to realize that the pictures shown are of GRAde AAAA show fish. Wayne gave his permission to use the photo' of his fish on there sites.

[chirohorn]

Miles, on the thread below you state the Jeff's VR are "quality":
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=9384;st art=15

Here, you say that Danny's fish are culls. Jeff's fish are larger & thus, more attractive when comparing the two pics.

Isn't it interesting that they are all from the same stock (Wayne Ng)?

[Miles]

Guys,

I'm not disputing they are from the same stock. The difference is night and day to me. The discus in front of the pic on the left side has a bad eye.

1. The pupil is not the correct size. This is a cull plain and simple.
2. The discus in the back in the middle is a football.
3. The discus to the right of that looks to have short gill plates. Short gills=cull. Its that simple.
4. Several other discus have large eyes=culls.

All I asked for was a better picture so WE could see for sure. Can that be furnished?

Culls are culls. I would not buy these discus. I'm sure there are people who like these fish and they can buy them.

Miles

Hi,

I recieved some super angel diamonds from Danny.

They are great quality and Danny has been very helpful along the way.

If you don't have anyhting nice to say, be quiet.

Danny, keep up the good work.

your friend

alex

[brew1]

Dred, 12 Discus is a serious investment and it is better to make the drive so you can see first hand what the quality is and select the best ones.

Are you planning on 12 Violet Reflections or will you be selecting some of Waynes Super Blue Angels as well?

I agree the picture is not the greatest and probably doesn't do the actual Discus justice.

I wish I was fortunate to live within a 5 hour drive of an importer of Waynes Discus.

I sure Miles isn't implying that Danny receives culls from Wayne while Jeff receives the AAA stuff. I think Miles is just hinting that he would like to sign on as Danny's photography consultant. ;)

Come on Miles, don't hold back now. Tell us what you really think. :D

Good Luck Dred and don't forget to get some of the Super Blue Angels

[dred]

Brew, it's like you read my mind - plan is 6 of each.

Miles, thanks for your criticisms - they are helpful, and I'll get an eagle eye when I visit. I'll be call'n Danny tomorrow to set up a meeting.

Everybody, thanks for confirming that the picture probably shows very young discus with good potential.

I'll keep you posted.

milton

[brewmaster15]

Hi,
Now I am not knocking Danny's fish here. I have seen some really nice fish that he has sold, but in this particular case and with these particular photos...I have to say that the eyes do look large for a 2 inch fish. Now it may be just because the pic is blurry and the eyes being red makes them stand out more? I don't know. Just my opinion.

Danny, can you try taking some additional pics? maybe that would clarify things. I'd also suggest taking a few pics of individuals in that tank, try to get them parallel with
you, so that the whole fish is visible ..that may help.

Hi Milton, If you have the ability to visit Danny, then I think thats a great idea. its always a good idea, as then you can pick the best yourself, and you get the chance to ask lots of questions and maybe see something else that you like. Be prepared though to come back with more than you thought you would, often thats what happens. If I lived within 5 hours a major seller like Danny, I'd definetly make the trip.

take care,
al

[John_Nicholson]

I will keep my thoughts of miles to myself.....


I have been to Danny's and he has great fish. He is a first class guy. I truely believe that you could buy any fish from Danny sight unseen and you would come out in very good shape.

-john

P.S. Danny is not a very good photographer but unlike some he is a great discus person.

[Rod]

I agree with Miles assessment of those discus especially comment number 3. That discus with the small pupil is clearly deformed and should have been culled. Any breeder who keeps and sells this kind of deformaties and tries to pass them off as quality is not a very good breeder in my veiw.

[John_Nicholson]

Rod it is a bad pic not bad fish. I thought Wayne of Wayne's Discus had a pretty good reputation.....

-john

[trusty]

danny wouldn't sell bad fish at all go see for yourself



trusty

[BLUEKNIGHT]

Guys i think thats a bad pic not bad fish.

Hi dred

Since you plan on buying from him personally, I think you could care less about the fish you see in the pic or any comments made on them. You can pick your fish and I am sure Danny will respond to any question you might have.
You will leave with Fish that you and you alone are happy with.
We wont have to like them, then in the end it will be you who changes there Water, Feeds them and hey maybe even Breed them. Have fun picking and enjoy.

HTH Ronald

[SLY]

Rod it is a bad pic not bad fish. I thought Wayne of Wayne's Discus had a pretty good reputation.....

-john


are we talking about wayne or danny here john? not trying to side anyone but those fishes doesn't look like quality one that wayne is famous for. No offense..it's my opinion.

[Chad]

Photos can be distorted and Great fish can look like crap.... JMO This photo is bad of great fish.... Danny would not have culls in any of his tanks.... JMO

Danny go ahead and send them to me and i will post some photos for you.. LOL
I would gladly take those fish knowing one day they will look like these:


Chad

[John_Nicholson]

Sly,

Danny is (and has been for a long time)a reseller of Waynes fish. On very rare occasions he may have something from someone else but that would be the exception not the rule. He has an excellent reputation for fish and on equally bad rep on his picture taking....LOL. I am the only one in this thread (I think) that has been to Danny's. He has great fish plain and simple. There is at least one individual in this thread (hint one of the first guys in) that is motivated by something other then fish.....

-john

[Jason]

Why doesn't Danny just post some better pics?

And I highly doubt nowadays, anyone is importing waynes strains, created in waynes hatchery in any kind of commercial numbers. that includes Jeff also.

[Chad]

in the pic above the fish doesnt look that great... JMO

here is another

[Chad]

here they look better,, better light better angle ETC

[Chad]

;D

[Chad]

;)

[Chad]

BTW:

I didnt here Danny ask for your opinon Miles??? I guess you were just ofering it in kidness???


Chad

[daddyg70]

Great looking adults Chad! Looking forward to mine looking like those. Is the color different than the angel blue diamond as an adult?

I got mine from Jeff about 4 weeks ago and when I went to his store his stock looked very similar to Danny's despite the bad picture. When Jeff got his violets in I remember him telling Ryan in the chat room that he wanted to hold off on posting any pics until they grow out a little. IMO Danny probably should have done the same. I suggest that Danny should take some pictures 3 weeks if he has any left. I bought two from Jeff and should of bought more. Knowing now the popularity of these fish I would buy 6-8 of those from Danny.


JMO
Greg 8)

[goldengatediscus]

I feel the frustration of a world class breeder that cannot respond to this thread because English is not his primary language. I suspect that even if Wayne were to write something, it would not be conveyed properly, and people would jump all over him. I think that Wayne breeds great fish, but the picture that is posted is not a good picture. Just because this is a lousy picture (sorry Danny!), we should NOT assume that Wayne has dropped his standards.

Posting a great picture is admittingly difficult. It depends on the quality of the equipment, the ability and patience of the photographer, the cooperation of the fish, and photo-editing software. While we cannot make big eyes smaller, we can edit that fish out of the picture!

Miles has very, very high standards for his fish, and most of my fish would probably be culls. Most people can probably settle for a little less. That doesn't mean that stunted, runted, egg-shaped fish are acceptable. Until they start cloning the 100% perfect fish, we just have to put up with genetic diversity. Picking out your own fish is the best way to get some fish that YOU want, whether they are A grade or B grade fish. Just don't get any C grade fish!
Brigitte

[Jeffery_Doty]

Hello Everyone,

How can such far reaching judgements be place on discus that are 2 inches, and from a quickly snapped photo? I am sorry that Danny is being treated in such a manner from one single photo. This type of behavior helps no one.

Jeff
Oregon

I am really sorry but Miles has no standards.........

He is good at back-stabbing.


alex

[Jason]

Miles wasn't attacking Danny, he was asking questions and critiqueing his product, wich as a consumer and member of simply he has every right to do!

his questions from what I read were valid, and although they were blunt and to the point, I read nowhere in them where he was attacking Danny's character.

If Danny wants to respond or post some better pics he can, If you guys want to bash Danny or Miles do it somewhere else, please!

[Jeff]

Thank you Jason.

This is way out of control. Anyone who knows me knows I don’t get involved in many controversial posts, but this has gone way too far. Miles sand Danny both are friends of mine. Miles is entitled to his opinions without being called names, made references to the past, or ridiculed in any way. Danny is entitled to post any pic he wants without references being made about him.

Danny give us more pics please and show us what you have. I know you can take better pics than that. I have seen them. Do you need help? I will offer phone support. John would you be willing to help Danny take better pics since you live close to him if he is having trouble? Everyone says it is the pics. So lets get some better ones and put this to rest. Or post several other pics so we get a better idea of what they are. That might be the easiest way to get past this.

What I do not appreciate is any references to about, out front of, around the bush, how ever you want to say it about either of these two guys. As I said they are both friends of mine. This is strictly about the discus. Lets keep it that way. Remember you are in America and everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, and this is SimplyDiscus. We all agreed to abide by their rules as laid out in the Mission Statement and also posted in the photo gallery. Here are a few sentences taken from the mission statement “We also ask that you use common courtesy when writing replies and refrain from attacking or insulting other members. Members will greatly benefit from constructive criticism that is rational and polite.” If you would like to reread the whole Mission Statement here is the link: http://www.simplydiscus.com/mission_statement.html


And to quote Al regarding posting pics on SimplyDiscus from the Photo Gallery” Alot of hobbyist and breeders have complained, suggested strongly, and voiced their dismay that we frown on them posting negatives about what is obviously a substandard fish. We understand your point of view that pointing out the flaws in these fish, is beneficial to the hobby, and therefore we have decided That Pictures on this board may be openly evaluated to the general standards that breeders and hobbysist agree on. These comments should be made in a professional and civil manner.” The entire post made be read at: http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=6094

So all I like to see is common courtesy be given Danny and Miles. Please keep it about the discus.

[SLY]

John I knew danny got most of his fishes from wayne..no doubt about it..what I'm saying is the pics danny posted doesn't do justice to wayne reputation what danny can do now is to post another picture or 2 or perhaps u can help him out on this.

[Tyler]

Let me start off by saying i have no loyalties to either Danny or Wayne, and do not know either of them.
But based off that pic, i wouldn't call those high quality discus. Personally, i don't think it's the "angle" either.
The things pointed out by Miles earlier in the thread are about the same as what i would say.

Tyler

[paulmat]

I would like to see better pics of them to be objective.
Paul :guitarist:

[brewmaster15]

Jeff,
That was a very well worded post, and I thank you for it and the manner in which you posted.


Chad, those are beautiful fish, but this posts discussion isn't about Danny's and Waynes quality in general. Its about the fish in that particular picture that Danny posted.

Everyone keeps saying its a bad pic. That a very strong possibility, but its not something thats difficult to remedy. Pictures can be taken again.


Please keep in mind every breeder out there has fish that may not be the highest quality from time to time. I am not saying this is the case here but I believe Danny Needs to take some better shots and put this to rest.

Keep in mind that a persons's reputation for fish is not justification to overlook if there is a chance that there might be a problem. I wonder what some of the other professional breeders out there would say here.


Aside from this post being about that pic, it is also burdened with some personality issues. I am tired of this, and If they Persist I will Lock this post and those involved will be dealt with. Those involved know who they are.

If anyone makes an attack against Danny's general fish quality and Business.... I will Lock this post, and deal with them as it goes against our sites rules.

If someone sees that there may be something wrong with the fish that are posted ... I will not allow them to be attacked over it. Miles is not the only one that questions those fish, and I know from experience here that if it had been other than a well known and respected seller, there would have been a far different set of posts here. This is the very reason why Ryan and I did not allow photo critiques in the first place on this site. This is very biased hobby.


Danny please repost some pics, and tell us some more about these fish. I know you have some very nice fish, and these may be as well, but the only way to settle this is to show some clear pictures.


If any of this is unclear, I will discuss with anyone interested off the board.

Thank you,
al

[Tyler]

Sorry If i added to any of the problem for you Al.....
Danny,
Please understand I am not attacking you personally. I would love to see more pics of these fish and others you may have.

Tyler

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Here's My Vs from danny!

I bought them very small at 2" under My care they turned out to be show Quaity IMO + IME

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Here's is other brother

[daddyg70]

Dam, I should have bought more of those VRs. Those are awesome.

Greg 8)

[Chad]

Cary.... you dog you sent me the small ones!! LMAO JK




Chad ;D ;D ;D

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Chad,
Bigger is not allways better! Its how you work it!
hee.hee.hee 8)

[hunterbeav]

Cary that's always what guys with small ones say teeeeheeeeee!!!!!! J/K :)

[CARY_GLdiscus]

DAM! LOL! :o

[remikz]

Hello all, i'd like to add to the debate,

Although I am new to discus I think it's fair to assume that a 2" fish should not be fully formed and showing it's absolute potential. Therefore, how can anybody say "cull cull cull" at this crucial development size?

I bought my fish that size and shape and they have developed brilliantly.

Now a fish seller with as high a reputation as danny and from a breeder such as wayne, surely should not have to come under sop much fire.

Now miles was agressive in his post, intentionally or not, it has upset a few people.

I prefer Carol's approach to culling fish, you have to wait until ALL the fish (obvious deformaties aside) are big enough for you to easilly compare the best with the worst and think, "How can that fish look so good, when this one looks so bad?" Then cull. IT could be around 4" of fish before you seperate culls from grade A stock right?

It takes more than 2 inches of fish to realise the potential of a discus JMO. All fry are born with a Football shape so give them time to develop.. 2" fish are always a gamble because they can go either way.

I was lucky that my fish developed well.

I'm sure that if those fish in that picture are 2 inch then they are 2 inches old. No stunted growth.


I realise that they look bad quality but i'm sure most of them, when the time is right will turn out brilliant.

--Ian

[afick1975]

If anyone knows Danny then they know he has excellent fish. After I saw the picture of the fish that Danny put on here that did not stop me from buying from him. Danny has taken a lot of heat for that picture and he shouldn't have. I ordered 6 Super Diamond Angels, 3 Shooting Stars, and 3 Red Pigeon Bloods from him last week and they look great. He sent me two extra Super Angel Diamonds and two Red Pigeon Bloods for free. Danny when you are on top everyone trys to knock you down. Keep your head up!!!!!!


Andre :) :) ;) ;) ;)

[Tonyintx]

Why is everyone knocking him? how many of you that are jumping on the ban wagon have been to his place and seen first hand his fish????? if you have then speak up otherwise please keep it to yourself. I come here to see and enjoy the pic and discussion about these fish not to hear us bash one another. in the famous words of Rodney King " Can't we all just get along"?

If he sent me say six or eight, then i invest a few months in them, i will give an unbiased report at that time with pics to boot. I mean, hell that the least i could do. LOL
No, really i will.
Take care, Matt

Remikz

Im not gonna get into this debate or that debate....but your statement is incorrect IMO.
If the discus have been raised and cared for properly...2"in size is more than adequate for judjing quality of care...There are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part, a crap 2" fish will be a crap 5" or 6" fish.

Tony...your telling me that unless Ive been to ANY particular breeders facilities and viewed all his/her stock first hand...that I or anyone else for that matter cant comment on a picture that said breeder produces? I assume that would include positive comments also then?
Doesnt make sense...I have eyes....I know what a quality discus looks like. Give some of us a little bit of credit.....Im well aware of Danny's reputation. Ive seen lots of "pictures" of his fish. They all looked to be top quality...thats why I didnt get involved here till now. Its called "benifit of a doubt"...one picture does not a breeder/importer make. Good or bad.
If I ever feel the need to speak out though...rest assured..I will, breeder visited or not.

Tony

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Heres my views on some of this...

Tony....
Why is everyone knocking him? how many of you that are jumping on the ban wagon have been to his place and seen first hand his fish????? if you have then speak up otherwise please keep it to yourself. I come here to see and enjoy the pic and discussion about these fish not to hear us bash one another.
I'll repeat this again. No one is attacking the quality of Danny's fish in general , just the fish in that particular pic. expressing ones opinion about the fish quality is not bashing.

and as for this...
if you have then speak up otherwise please keep it to yourself. Unappreciated and uncalled for comment on your part Tony. I don't need to see the hatchery to comment on that pic. No one does. the hatchery isn't in question, dannys rep isn't either.

ian
Now a fish seller with as high a reputation as danny and from a breeder such as wayne, surely should not have to come under sop much fire the reputation of anyone for quality does not put them above question. If anything they should be under the most scrutiny because they are the gold standard. They should set the example. IMHO

Although I am new to discus I think it's fair to assume that a 2" fish should not be fully formed and showing it's absolute potential. Therefore, how can anybody say "cull cull cull" at this crucial development size?.......-It takes more than 2 inches of fish to realise the potential of a discus JMO.
By two inches most traits are visible which is why many breeders sell fish at this size. Good breeders will have done most of their culling by this size. There is always the exception to the development of a fish, and good care can make a poor fish into a good fish in some cases, but it should not be the accepted norm... and certainly not if you are paying between $ 25- 45 for a fry that can "possibly turn in a beauty"--IMHO


Let me put this into perspective here. If this board allows pictures to be commented on... It can only be if the person posting them has a bad reputation? If the person has a good rep, everyone keeps their mouth closed on the matter? Is that what you are all saying?

Now if I chose to disallow photo critiques here, we are doing a dis-service to the hobby, but at least we would be treating everyone fair here. We will have to really think about this one for future reference.



I am not Miles, and I see that the fish in that pic are not the quality I would expect from someone like Danny and Wayne. If I paid for those fish, and they came in looking like that pic. I would be seriously dissappointed, as would anyone that has seen young fish of the quality that Chad and Cary posted Adults of .

I'm sorry Danny, but those fish are not as good as I have seen from you in the past.


And that is my honest opinion. I am not jumping on any band wagon here, I am using my eyes and experiences and stating an opinion of those fish in a civil fashion.. ...And By the rules of this board it my right to express that opinion. This opinion does not reflect any personal feelings about Danny or Waynes fish quality in general. It is based on that pic, and what I deem to be a good fish.

Everyone has loyality to certain breeders, and even among breeders some are friends with others. This is fine, but its not an excuse to look the other way. And its certainly not an excuse to make a simple post about a bad picture into something its not.

We all agree its a bad pic, some think those fish are fine in it, others don't. No big deal. Ideally the easy way to solve this would have been to repost some pictures. Not hard to do, but unfortunately it wasn't done.

-al

[afick1975]

I think we all are adults here and we should be able to express our opinions as long as we do it in a professional manner. If a breeder mistreats a customer and sells them crap fish we should be able to let everyone know about that. Not doing that is a diservice to the hobby and to all members and vistors on this forum. That is why we have so many people jumping in and out of the hobby because their are people that take advantage of customers who doesn't know any better. If we all would think about it how many times have be been saved by the advice of others? This has nothing to do with the picture that Danny posted because I know he has excellent fish but I think this is something that needs to be address.


Andre

[harvey]

Hey, they look like culls and runts to me also, and I am not an expert.
Especially the large eye on the discus in the left front of picture.

[harvey]

But each person should be entitled to their own opinion.

[Tonyintx]

I was just trying to say that everyone was jumping down his throat over 1 pic and I tried and tried to get a good pic of my fish and know it's not that easy and and bad pic can make great fish look like crap. maybe it's just me but I'm not gonna talk crap about his fish unless I see them first hand face to face and see that they are crap. if they are. which from what I've heard they are not.

[Tyler]

Why is everyone making such a big deal of photo quality? The pic isn't THAT bad. You can clearly see the fish and their body shapes/features. Better lighting won't make their eyes smaller.....
I will say however.....from what i have heard from a couple well respected hobbiests Danny generally has great fish. Probably just unlucky for him that these were the fish we saw.

Tyler

[CARY_GLdiscus]

I am Very Sorry To All! ; :'(

But Brew,Tony,Tyler and Yes even Miles is right!
Miles could of been much nicer but we all know how that goes.

Also I have tryed very hard not to post to negative things more so when other breeders are involed. Well danny is a good friend to me and I would never want to hurt him just HELP! Maybe all of this will help Danny as time goes by But thats only if danny cares about getting , demandeing and selling higher Quality in the united states for times to come..

And If danny is a true friend to me He should want What I want in the Hobby! Good Friends Good Discus and keeping this thing growing.

IMO we should Demade this from the exporters to help the usa market. I do not know if You have looked around lately but everyone is after a piece of it. the USA discus hobby is growning everyday lets make it the best! and keep it that way
We are no longer the junk collecters we once were. We want the best of the best thats why we are americans.
same goes for are canada Friends.
What we did not Know then We sure Know Now.

IME it is getting better and growing everyday thanks to forums like these.

But again I agree with the others Them Discus in the pic Do not look like The best I have seen or received from Danny in the past.

Sorry Danny,
But The pic said it all. I did not need to say a thing. IMO they must of got off on the wrong Foot. Maybe more food and water will get them back to shape only time will tell.
Don't be mad at us be mad at him. if thats what YOU RECEIVED.

Also Quality is easy to judge at 2" never foget it and do not believe the breeders who tell you diffrent!


Some times a Man's gota do what a mans gota do. When he wants his hobby to grow for the best!

Your friend
Cary Gld!

[Willie]

We are no longer the junk collecters we once were. We want the best of the best thats why we are americans.
same goes for are canada Friends.
What we did not Know then We sure Know Now.

This is an interesting comment, because it illustrates how far this hobby has come. Much of this rapid progress comes as a result of the Internet and SimplyDiscus has led the way. To me, this was the first easy to use discussion groups. Just in the upper Midwest, it has stimulate huge amount of interest in raising discus.

I was reading www.chanmingdiscus.com (http://www.chanmingdiscus.com) and Winson had a U.K. magazine article about discus raising. The article indicated that all the good discus stayed in Asia or North America. None of the good stuff made it to Europe.

We've come a long way, baby. :) :) :)

Willie

I agree with Tony_Serna

alex

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Hello Cary HELLO ANDREW, I think you were wrong for the post you placed on simply regarding the fish that Danny posted. THATS OK YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT! THE ONLY THING YOU DO NOT HAVE IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF KNOWING WHAT A GOOD DISCUS IS. LIKE I TELL MANY OTHERS THAT GET MAD AT ME. YOU WILL THANK ME LATER. I have a bad monitor and I couldn't get a good look at the fish but if he is your friend like you say he is then you should have done it in a different way. HEY BRO REMEMBER I SEE DANNY'S FISH ALL THE TIME. I SEEN THE ONES AT THE ACA I SEEN THE ONES BEING SOLD BUY JEFF ETC... SO DON'T GET UPSET WITH ME I DID NOT PUT A HIGH QUALITY TAG ON THEM. MAYBE IF HE WOULD OF JUST SAID DISCUS FOR SALE AND NOT HIGH QUALITY THIS WOULD OF NEVER HAPPEN. HEY! CAN I ASK YOU HOW LONG YOU BEEN DOING DISCUS? I BET I HAVE BEEN DOING THEM LONGER THEN YOU AND DANNY COMBINED. YOU SEE I KNOW THE IMPORT GAME AND HOW IT WORKS. ALL IMPORTERS GET MEAT AND POTATOS BUT THAT IS FINE ASLONG AS THEY DUMP THEM AT LFS AND NOT TO HOBBIEST WHO ARE PAYING $40 A DISCUS FOR A $8 FISH. I would be very upset if a friend of mine would have done me like that. WELL YOU ARE RIGHT THIS IS NOT FOR FRIENSHIP THIS IS BIZ. If you thought the fish was crap then you should have called Danny and told him that and not posted that on simply and ask him to remove the pictures.MAN AM TIRED OF TELLING PEOPLE WHATS WRONG AND WHATS RIGHT THIS IS THE BEST WAY FOR HIM TO LEARN. COME ON EVEN HIS PARTNER AGREES THE QUALITY IS LOW You have hurt Danny feelings as well as damage his business. FEELING'S WELL MAYBE YES BUT HIS BIZ I HIGHLY DOUGHT. SINCE YOUR SO CLOSE TO HIM MAYBE YOU COULD GET US ANOTHER PIC. IF YOU LOOK CLOSLY YOU WILL SEE THAT SOME OF THE DISCUS HAVE DEFECTED PUPILS ETC........ For those who didn't know Danny they might not buy discus from him now after the post you placed. DON'T WORRY IT WILL BLOW OVER AND DANNY HAD THE CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK BUT HE CHOOSE NOT! IF IT WAS ME I WOULD OF FOUGHT TO THE DEATH. YOU SEE ANDRE THE PROBLEM IS EVERYONE IMPORTING DISCUS AND SELLING THEM REALLY DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE DISCUS. ALL I HEAR IS O MY EXPORTER IS MY BEST FRIEND HE LOVES ME SO MUCH HIM AND I ARE BEST PALS. THEN I SEE THESE DISCUS THEY BOUGHT FROM THERE BUDS AND THINK WOW! HE MUST BE A REAL GOOD FRIEND OR THE BUYER JUST DOES NOT KNOW OR REALLY COULD CARE LESS.IMO IF DANNY WANTED TO LEARN HE WOULD POST ANOTHER PIC. OR HIS EXPOTER WOULD SEND HIM BETTER DISCUS. AM NOT GOING INTO DETAILS BUT I DID GET DISCUS FROM DANNY BEFORE AND I KNOW! You don't make your friends look bad in front of thousands of people then tell them call you if they need help.REALLY ANDREW ITS NICE OF YOU TO TRY AND HELP BUT REALLY YOUR NOT HELPING ANYONE NOT EVEN YOURSELF. Who in the world would call and ask for help after that? ONE WITH BALLS LIKE ME.
NOW A LITTLE STORY FOR YOU. MY BEST FRIEND IN THE WORLD IS A IMPORTER WELL LETS JUST SAY I BOUGHT $10.000 IN DISCUS FROM HIM THAT WERE ALL JUNK AND ALL SICK I TOOK A VERY BIG LOSE AND WHEN I COMPLAINED ALL I GOT WAS A BILL. THE MORAL TO THIS STORY IS WE ARE STILL FRIENDS. BIZ IS BIZ DON'T MIX THE FRIENDSHIP IN.

BEST WISHES
CARY GLD

P.S LEARN THE HOBBY AND THE QUALITY OF DISCUS BEFORE YOU PLAY THE GAME AND SELL. ANYONE CAN DO THAT.
AGAIN AM HERE TO HELP THE HOBBY NOT HELP FRIENDS WHO ARE SELLING LOW GRADE SICK DISCUS.

[CARY_GLdiscus]

ON A SECOND NOTE!

MOST IN THE PIC LOOK FINE TO ME BUT SOME NEED TO BE CULLED NOT SOLD TO NEWBIES.

GOOD DAY! AND AM WARMING UP!

next please! 8)

[Mike_Selley]

Xtreme Committment to Extreme Excellence. Very hard to do sometimes, but is it not worth it in the long run? Maybe we should all reflect on this more in our lives, not just discus. I know I should.

THANKS CARY and all you other seller breeders who feel this way.

[fcdiscus]

;D

[brewmaster15]

I think it takes great character to say what you honestly feel, even if it may not be what some would like to hear. Thanks Cary!

-al

Good job Cary..... :thumbsup:

Tony

[Tyler]

Thanks for the truth Cary.....

Tyler

[dred]

FWIW,

I'm that newbie hobbiest everyone is worried about. And, I wanna state that the concern is genuine.

As a slow starter who has been investigating for some time now but has yet to purchase a single Discus, I KNOW that I want high quality discus. I figure I'm planning a 12 month grow out before I get the big beautiful wonderful fish I'm looking forward to raising. 12 months is a heavy investment into a fish that doesn't have the potential for greatness. You can see the Ham Helper thread or any of the numerous threads like it to see what I'm try'n to avoid.

I want to say, using my most careful and tactful tone, that the picture and the responses startled me. I am still putting off the trip to see Danny's Discus. And, it's because I don't trust my own ability to see/pick the fish with the greatest potential. That's something that I have to trust the breeder/seller to do for me. A year from now after I've grown out some juveniles I'll be more confident making selections. My point here is one of advice to other breeders. I would definately have made the trip if Danny had defended his fish or his photography or somehow participated in the concensus or resolution on this forum - he started the thread. We've all wished for a cancel button after posting or sending something over the net so I certainly feel for Danny's experience with the response to the photo he posted. But, the lack of participation in a discussion concerning his product does nothing to increase this newbies confidence.

milton

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Ok,
After talkng with Danny over the phone. Danny would like Me to post in his behalf.

Now knowing Danny I can tell You he is a real shy guy. Also from this reason he cares not to post to this thread. If You do read the boards you can see that danny is not much of a poster.

Anyways after talking with Danny he said to me that the discus in the pic were very small when he got them in. He also said that they did have a rough start being that they were so small.

He also agreed to some being culls and told Me that he was to busy to remove them just yet. he also said he would of never sold this defect to anyone Gaurenteed.

Another thing danny wanted me to say was he wanted about 3 people that are very good in discus to take and post weekly on their health Quality and size free of charge. They would only need to pay for the shipping if they were in dought.

Am going to buy 6 of them myself to try and help! cause I know I will get them going I will post about their Quality + health on delivery and weeks after.
This will be asked buy the others to do the same who plan on takeing the discus.

Ofcourse am not god but danny wanted me to pick the peope who he thinks are able to get these discus looking good in weeks.

Again Danny said they are not all in there best shape yet but very healthy and on there way. Now He also said raiseing discus comes from the mind + eyes your heart + soul But most of all both hands. do not use your mouth LOL.


Again Danny I want You to know that this has nothing to do with You! You are great guy and I know I speak for all. this is only about are hobby and helping it grow for the future.

Hth
Cary Gld!

[chirohorn]

Kudos to Danny for the project. Let me know if you're needing an extra "volunteer". Count me in. :D

[April]

cool. i voulunteer jim. hunterbeav. he did a fantastic job on those abd.and he has great pic taking skills

wish i could.but my water is not good for good growth.

[Jason]

I'd like to try, I love cobalts!

unfortunately I'm not good at pics, so I guess hunterbeav would be best, kick-*** camera and did you see how he turned those ABD's around.

but that isnt really fair either as we know he has alot more time to devote to them than the average hobbyist.

so I dunno ???

the person who is givin the project, should be a fair representation of the average hobbyist who works 40hours+ a week and stuff.

It takes alot of time and skill to turn fish around, and we know Jim can so, getting him to do it, would'nt exactly be a good case scenerio

[April]

Cary whoever you choose..make sure they can send the fry they produce to canada. ;D even if their environmentally slowed down.they still have the genetics. 8)
i need reflections really really bad!!! i may wither without some.
April...feeling blueless. ::) :'( :'(

[brewmaster15]

Thank you Danny for the honesty!
-al

[SLY]

Cary :thumbsup:

[breed_beyond]

Danny don't forget the some what newbie's so you can do a pictoral on the differance........

Dear Cary,

as i said before.........

you are number one in my book. :D

Best wishes

alex

[Tonyintx]

Great idea and congrates to Danny and Cary for coming up with this idea.

[BLUEKNIGHT]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: CARY:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumb sup:

[henryD]

I think kudos to Danny for being upfront and honest.

Good Job Cary for finding a solution.

[Tim_Ellis]

That is an impressive offer Danny. Very generous. Wish I could get on that list. Heck, I would drive up and pick them up in person. ;D I have only spoke with Danny on the phone, but my first impression appears to be correct. Good people. I bid you good luck on this venture, and will be up to meet you in person soon. This is a very good precident that you are setting in the discus world.

Take care,

Tim

[edgeguy]

Please update with lots of pics. I am a newbie and this would be a good learning experience.

Count me in if ya need a hand Cary ;)

[chirohorn]

Hey, I'll second Tim Ellis' self nomination ;) <-- he'll take excellent care of them.

[Pat_in_NC]

I'll second Beth--we all have seen the great job she does at growing out Discus. Just as important is her digital photography skills which are second to none on this board.

Just my thoughts,

Pat

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Ok here Go's

beth adams, matt parson, Tim Ellis, And Discusgeo,


Please contact danny by phone or email!

Thanks
Cary Gld!

[breed_beyond]

Good pix for the people to raise them up, good job Cary........

[edgeguy]

I can't wait for the updates. :bounce: :bounce2: :bounce:

[Tonyintx]

Tim's a great choice Cary, he's done a great job with Red turks.

I have talked to Danny and the new fish will be coming as soon as i get back from my work trip. He was going to send them next week Sat. But i will be gone. I will get ahold of him and reschedule for the following weekend.
For what ts worth, Danny semed very honest about the fish, and also very hurt by some of the things said. He is not like many of us when it comes to bad mouthing others and does not feel he should have to defend himself.
To half *** quote him, he says he raises fish with his hands, mind and soul, not his mouth.
Maybe we could all learn a little from that statement. I know it made me think.
Danny i had a great talk, Matt

Matt,

i second that!

alex

[Discusgeo]

I am with Matt and I also spoke to Danny this week and I have known Danny for about 2 years and he's always been very honest with me. I followed all that went on on this thread and I find it pretty Lousy that some of you who don't know the man would trash him and his Discus like you did. Ok sometimes there are some of us who can't take a decent picture but don't speak badly of the person or his fish. I am sure I will catch hell here also when I post the one's he sends me as I am not that great with a camera also. I just don't feel it's right to do what some of you have gone an done. You should be ashamed of yourselfs and I think that any of you who can do better should start posting the pictures of your Discus here. Let me trash you about what you have swimming in your tanks and ask you how much you paid for your junk. That's it I am done *****ing and you will see my pictures in a week or so.
George

George,

i agree with you.


alex

I spoke with Danny a couple days ago and what a nice guy he is....

I enjoyed the long talk with you Danny and am looking forward to growing some of these guys out. We'll talk again soon.

I'll keep you all updated on their progress ;)

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Ok Everyone,
Glad to see We worked things out with danny. now remember after they settle in for a few days we need to see pics and Your Opion.

From what I hear most of You will be getting Vrs from a new batch and not from the batch in the pic.

However I did not receive Mine yet But I demand the ones in the pic thats what this was all about.

Mine will be sent to mat P first then sent to Me I just want Everyone to remember why we are doing this and would hope to see many pics.

Plain and simple the Vrs in the pic look not so good there is No need to bust danny's balls We all no he's a good guy but is his supplyer?

TakeCare,
Cary Gld!

[daddyg70]

I'm looking forward to the pictures. I love this strain! Please indicate if the pictures are from Danny's batch in the picture. Good luck

Greg 8)

[Discusgeo]

I will be getting mine tomorrow 6/6/03 and once they are settled in I will take a picture of them.
George

[Carol_Roberts]

What is this test to show?

1) The quality of a random sample of Danny's blue diamonds when raised by expert hobbyiests
or
2) How expert hobbyiests can turn lower quality blue diamonds into top quality blue diamonds with the right care?

In other words will Beth, Matt, et.al. be receiving a random sample (not hand picked - close your eyes and net out fish) or will Danny pick out low to medium quality discus for them to work with?

Sending out the best hand picked discus of a new shipment to raise for the test will only prove that the best babies grow into the best adults when cared for properly.

[iceman_373]

:'(....i never get in on these free discus deals.....wahhhhhhhhh:(

[Top_Bhoy]

Lets hope this is now put to bed. I've been following from afar with no real knowlege of anyone. As far as I can see the only thing to come out of this is that some people will get a few free fish to look after. My own take on all of this is that after the original pic went out and criticism came round - it took several days and many hysterical posts before the facts surrounding their history came out. I note however, in the original post, the dealer never mentioned the quality or price of the fish (nor anything else for that matter). Some of the later posts went OTT in their criticism AND tone IMHO before perhaps knowing the full story.

Really, this whole matter should all have been sorted sooner. My belief is that if your prepared, in a public forum or similar, to post a picture or advert to sell something then you should be prepared to answer questions pertaining to that post in the same public forum as promptly as possible.

My hope, which I am not confident about, is that if/when a similar situation occurs it doesn't take weeks to resolve, there are no hysterical mass posts, nobody slagging one another off and no bun fight developing.

Have a nice day

Chris

My belief is that if your prepared, in a public forum or similar, to post a picture or advert to sell something then you should be prepared to answer questions pertaining to that post in the same public forum as promptly as possible.


Chris!!

You just NAILED it right on the head!! HAD that been done....this whole deal never would have gotten as far as it did....plain and simple.

Tony

[Jason]

I thought this was gonna be about the discus in the picture?

[SLY]

I thought this was gonna be about the discus in the picture?


Jason lookie here http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=10275

[vinson]

I have been following this thread with great interest since I do sell Wayne's discus in Singapore. While I do not know most of the people here, I trust that all comments made were done in good will and intention.

With first hand dealing, Wayne's discus has not disappointed me. The order has been precise and true to his reputation. Likewise, the feedback from my customers in Singapore has been positive. And I am convince that his good name will continue to be build upon.

The North America is an important market in global discus trading, not only because the market size is big, but with an improving appreciation of discus quality. The breeders in Asia understand this trend and will enforce on quality delivery to ensure long term business relationship.

The sustainability of a quality discus market relies on many good people, professional and ethical values are important so that more people can enjoy the hobby. Danny has offered thru Cary's help a solution to the issue, and I am sure with the expert assistance rendered, the good spirit of discus keeping is well and alive.

cheers,

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Hey danny what happen to beth"s VR'S


Why are you not returning her emails or phone calls?


P.S And If any of you wanabes want to Know why I care Beth happens to be one of My true friends So now You Know so DON"T ASK!

[Top_Bhoy]

Maybe I have read the mail wrong but the P.S outburst Gary posted was IMO rude and unneccessary (sp?) to probably the majority of members.

Maybe he'd like to expand upon his definition of 'wanabes'?

Chris

[brewmaster15]

Hi Chris,
Don't take that comment personally. Knowing the way the discus world turns I can tell you that was meant for a select few individuals.

Its best left as largely unsaid, but 99% of an issue usually takes place off the board. This is one of those cases.

HTh,
al

ps... all.. I'd rather not lock this post, but will if it flares up.

[Top_Bhoy]

Brew,
Thanks for the response. I did suspect (but not 100% sure)it was meant for one or two individuals, but overall I think that such comments are best left private. The rest of us (well me anyway) don't want to get drawn into personal grudges between individuals and have to wade through such posts. I'll say no more....that was my last 2p worth.

Chris

[barron]

Buy made in the u.s.a. and help this nation.

So say "nah boo-coo pea and diddy".

Who buys round eyes fish?

Anyway, most of them look o.k. The small pupil could be from
the lighting. The larger eyes, as he said, "they had a hard start." I think with care, most will be A fish.

Baron ;D

[Discus_Hans]

Cary, Cary, Cary, dear friend dig a big hole buddy and put your Tomahawk back in the ground :) :) I think Danny has bine generous enough on this subject, some fish are to some people and waith how this ends. Don't think he need to give more fish away for free.

If this whole thing would have happened to me, I wouldn't have give away ANY fish, very simple, if you don't like them, don't buy them. If there would be anyone who complains about the fish they BOUGHT it always early enough to make an arrengment with those customers. JMO, Hans.

[trusty]

hi guys i went to george's to pick up some food. i saw the violets and they where big and they looked real nice guys, george is doing a great job


trusty