Is it a true pair?

[Nightowl]

Hello, I have a "pair" of Wattley turquoise that have laid eggs about 24 times now, w/no wigglers. About 3wks. ago, I thought they might both be females but breeder is still convinced he sold me a mated pair. I have never been able to truly observe the fish "spawning", but the male(more solid colored) never seemed interested when the female was cleaning the pvc. It always seems I would be gone for a while & when I returned, there were the eggs. It has always seemed to me that the females initiate the spawning event by cleaning the pvc and shaking at the males. So yesterday I saw the solid turk. fish doing just that, and the female, somewhat striated fish seemed uninterested. A few hours later, there were eggs... again. The solid fish was making passes, the other fish was off to the side. I couldn't see any eggs coming from from the solid fish. In fact, eggs only appear after I'm gone for a while... its very frustrating. It appeared to be at least 200 eggs in a 1" x 2" area. When I got home from work today, around midnight, there was another whole batch of eggs, adjoined to the first batch, at least another 200! The "male" was just fanning yesterdays eggs for a while, and the "female" was looking at me for food. To confuse things more, I just saw male "bow" to female. Does this mean anything? Not sure exactly when 2nd wave of eggs was laid. Should I try a 3rd fish or would that totally mess things up? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, Nightowl (J) :vanish:

[ReeferKimberly]

based on that, i vote for two females :-[
do you have any proven males? adding one may just do the trick. also, while your at it, if you add one and he pairs with one, you could remove the other and see if it pairs with another proven male or maybe just an "unknown" in a community or something. wow after 24 spawns, if none are every to wiggler stage, it seems a bit unhopeful.
one more thing, do the eggs just fungus or do they eat them? if you think they are just eating them, u could always try mesh and see if the eggs hatch that way.
good luck
kimberly :-*

[Nightowl]

Hi Kimberly, Thanks for the reply & nice to meet you! I am still sort of new to forum. The eggs have usually fungused but now they eat them at day 2 or 3. The thing is, I don't see any reason for the breeder to have mislead me, but who knows? If they are females, then I have 2 beautiful female discus to work with!!! And I think they are.... Having any luck w/ your fish? I saw your photos: very nice fish ! I always enjoy reading your posts. Thanks again... take care, J(Nightowl) :vanish:

[ReeferKimberly]

aww what nice comments! how much did you pay for the fishies? it may have been a case of ripping you off, which would be unfortunate. id be great if you could catch both laying sometime and confront the breeder but i guess they are just too elusive for that eh!
nice to meet you too! i love your username, it reminds me of me!
do you have any pics? i would love to see them if so. and at least you know you have one female. now if you can find a reliable male somewhere you could have yourself a beautifull pair! my fish are just in the process of laying their 5th spawn. the have eaten the previous so we are in the same boat when it comes to proving they are a pair.
good luck to us both!
kimberly :-*

[Nightowl]

Hello again, I'm in the process of looking for a camera so I can send out some pics. I paid a good piece of change for the two fish but could probably recover the cost if I sold them separately. They are big beautiful Wattley turks! The man I bought them from has been breeding discus for some time & I have Gold PB's w/ fry that I bought from him on 2-16 - 03 which he wasn't selling as a pair but he figured was a pair. I've dealt w/ him on & off since early 1999 and most of my breeding fish have come from him. I recently purchased some green spotted snakes, and some Lep. snakes which are growing like weeds. There` was no advantage for him to sell me two females, but I will certainly let him know if they are(which I think they are). So, thanks again for the reply... take care.. Nightowl :vanish:

[ReeferKimberly]

well at least you have all the rest of those fish to look after! ur lucky to have fry. i want some from my pairs!! nighty night nightowl :D
kimberly :-*

[Nightowl]

The pair is still guarding the eggs... they don't seem fertile, they're not fungusing, and they don't look white, but rather an opaque orange...but not fertile...?????? J :vanish:

[HP]

Opaque orange sounds fertile to me. When my discus laid eggs which went unfertilized, they were cloudy/clear with no yellow or orange color. Some of them fungused and turned opaque white, so they don't have to be fertilized to get fungus.

[Carol_Roberts]

Healthy eggs are orangy colored when laid - male or no male.

Eggs will turn dark after 24+ hours if fertile. White eggs are dead. Some eggs may take 48+ hours to turn white, while other eggs are deposited white.

Fungus is different from egg color.

[DaveZ]

Nightowl,
What I would do is put a divider in the tank and throw an adult discus in there and see what happens.If they are a male and female the male might want to protect the eggs and both fish might seem eager to take care of the eggs.
Now this has worked for me in the past but your results may be different.JMO.
DAVEZ

[Willie]

Nightowl;

Even if you miss the spawning, you should be able to distinguish males from females by the genitalia, which is visible for 12 - 18 hours after spawning. The female genitalia is larger and cone shaped. The male genitalia is barely visible, looking like a wisp -- thinner and pointy.

Take a good look. If they look similar, you have two females.

Willie

If you had 2 sets of eggs in a tank with just 2 fish, within a 5 days interval.... you possibly have two females.... if you have two sets of eggs laid with the first set still in place... you possibly have two females.... because females will clean up before starting to spawn again and seldom leave the spawn and lay again in a different place.... but the best way to be sure is like willie said, observe the tubes.... :)
Secondly, why is the breeder so sure, has this pair produced wigglers for him? if he hasn't said this, he may be scaming you... 8)
If all is confirmed, the fact remains, just because a pair spawns for someone dosen't mean you will have the same result..... ;) Luck plays a bigger role in this hobby.... :)

[Nightowl]

Hello all, thanks for the replies. I will have to take a closer look.... I'm thinking of moving them to a tank w/ some other fish. The 2 batches of eggs were laid about 24 hrs. apart, maybe less. The eggs are not fertile, for sure . Thanks again, Nightowl :vanish:

[fcdiscus]

That really sounds like you are dealing with 2 females! Frank 8)

[Carol_Roberts]

It sure does and both looking for a good male . . .

[Nightowl]

..... but a good male nowadays is hard to find..... :vanish: