can you alay my concerns

[angel12]

I wonder if anyone could advise ....
My tank has been up and running for 3 months now and im using Ro water no tap water is added I replace the minerals in the Ro water via Kent Ph essential .. im coming to the point now where I am thinking of adding my Adult discus ....

Thing is I have been changing 25% of the water every other day In a 40 Gall tank what I have noticed is that once the water is added (same temp as the tank water) that my Cardinal Tetras zoom around like they are on speed they dash all over the place they dont go to the surface but they just fly around all over the tank Now I use CO2 and the ph monitor inside my tank says 7.0 ph and the temp is not a problem the KH is 6 GH is 9 so with a fair amount of KH the PH shouldnt swing that much
The other occupants the Goldn Plecs are fine they just carry on as normal ... my reason for posting is that I have spent a lot of time reading up on Discus and Planted tanks (also asking a lot of questions on here I might add) but now im getting close to the day Where I put the Discus in im getting a little paranoid in that I may be looking for issues that arent realy there ...
Im looking to get some Top quality Adults and I dont want to mess up at such an advanced stage So mY question is do you think that the Change in water due to it being more or less pure H20 is Causing my tetras to be full of life or do you think it there is an underlying problem .. last thing I want is 6" adults flying all over the place .. your help advice would be appreciated .....

:)

[DiscusJeff]

If you have cardinal tetras darting around like that I don't think your water is right and ready for discus.

I've used Kent's R/O Right product to reconstitue my R/O water. I'm not too familiar with the Ph essential product, but it sounds like it was designed just as a Ph buffer and not a complete R/O mineral supplement/replacement.

I would switch to R/O right or mix with tap if your tap water is usable.

[RAWesolowski]

Angel,

I assume that you will be using the tank as a show tank. If so, why are you fooling with RO? Your discus should do fine in tap water. When you find a pair, you can use RO to temper your breeding tank to 100 to 300 ms in conductivity.

You'll find that your cardinals and your discus will love you.

[angel12]

Thanks my water has high levels of Phosphate and I get Black Hair algae all over my plants hence me using Ro water it would cost me more in the long run using a resin like rowophos than it would to just use ro water .. I dont user a mix due to the above factor im just going to be putting phosphate back in the water my readings are off the scale of the test kit so its either 5ppm or above ... so what now where do I go from here it seems to me its catch 22 stage :'(

if anyone has any suggestions then please let me know Oh yes and sorry it is Kent RO right not essential I mix it to the specification on the back ie it has a low KH 2-3

the Cardinals eat like pigs and are always looking for food . they dont seem to be suffering form stress or shock in fact they seem more lively now than they have ever done this is my observation over the last week or so since I have started using RO water ... its just the time when I put the Ro water in that they zoom around as above the plecs are fine and just carry on as normal ...

also why do people talk about conductivity isnt KH and GH the same I dont have a Condu test kit just normal Kh and GH is it possible to work out the Ms from those ...

:)

[wildthing]

get rid of the CO2...that is probably the cause, it certainly has that " panic" effect on Discus

[ronrca]

C02 is fine! Using kh of 6 and ph of 7.0, C02 levels is around 18ppm which is in the ideal range. Anything over 25ppm is getting high.

Do you add the RO reconstruction before doing the water change or during the water change?

Have you tried mixing RO/tap 50/50 and testing the phosphates?

I would like to mention BioTypicals signature (I dont think he will mind).
"Nitrogen and Phosphate are nutrients, not pollutants!
Algae is caused by an imbalance in nutrients. Maintain a balance and there will be no algae.
Healthy plants equals healthy fish."

[angel12]

rornca you are the man ....as usual however the PO4 is at such a large level in my Tap water that it only takes a day for the Beard alage to devlope at the moment all the algae is gone the plants as you can see from my post with my pics are growing extremly well in 1.5w Per Gall If I understand you correctly from what you have mentioned Ie Phils sig that if the plants are doing well then fish are doing well also ?
Would that mean as far as you can see there is not much wrong with my set up ? sorry to ask so many questions but as ive said before without the help and guidance of people on this board I wouldnt have got this far Im just trying to put the final piece in the jigsaw so to speak .. the end is pretty close and im getting a bit twitchy .. dont want to blow it all by not doing as best as I can with the tools I have ... sorry its such a long post
The existing stock are better than I have seen before they are not as shy and are out and about constantly looking for food that is a good sign I hope its just the initial period when I put the water in that is of concern to me ... thanks for looking in

P.S I think I have cracked it ;D I make up the RO water and follow the instructions on the kent Ro right powder tub I have just managed to make a batch of Ro water up with a PH of 7 exactly the same ph as in the Tank I add the Ro right into the Ro water before I add the 2 into the tank ... im going to let it stand overnight and see if it is still the same Ph in the morning if it is then all peram check out if the fish are still flying around after that then im stuck




;D

[ronrca]

I think I do remember seeing your planted tank and it good very nice! If the plants are good and healthy, most likely your fish also. However, this really does not take into account short ph swings. Try the little test you just mentioned and let us know.

Btw, how many cardinals do you have?

[sgt95b]

Just out of curiousity do you age your water? If not this may be causung your ph swing.

[RAWesolowski]

Angel,

kH is carbonate hardness and gH is general hardness. Each is a measure of dissolved solids in your water. A conductivity meter measures the electrical current sustained by the solids in the water.

Breeding range for conductivity is 100 to 300 microseimens. The range is similar to measuring low kH and gH without the tubes and fluids just a probe.

[angel12]

Ah well there you have a Good Point sgt95b I dont have the space (small little english house ;D) you see so I Can only let my water stand for a short time before I add the Water to the Tank .... However I have managed to leave the water as in the above post overnight .. not the most conveniant place for it but im going to test it later (doing a water change tonight anyway ) and see if there is any Ph Diff .. as for my Tetras there is a shoal of 10 ... heres hoping ;D
Thanks again for all your replies it is very much appreciated

[Francisco_Borrero]

I don't have experience with planted discus tanks, but do have some with planted community tanks. There is something that doesn't make sense....at least to me.

You indicated the reason for using RO water in your show, planted tank is excess phosphate in your tap water.
- By using only RO (even reconstituted), you are stripping the water of a lot of stuff, not only phosphate. Your plants would do better in tap water. If phosphate from tap water itself is still a problem (I doubt it !), you can use one of various phosphate removers that remove just that. Not that I am specifically recommending this approach. Most likely you have an imbalance in nutrients due to difficulty in accurate fidgetting with water parameters. Better is to....leave it alone.
- Regarding the skittishness, pH swings can easily spook sensitive fish (i.e, cardinals, neons, discus). As wildthing suggested, CO2 may be involved, not necessarily because of itself (as rornca points out), but because of fluctuations in concentrations and resulting pH due to water changes, day/night cycles, etc.

I would try plain tap awter and not overfeed. HTH and cheers, Francisco.

[ronrca]

Another quick question angel! Do you heat and aerate your water when leaving it for a short period?

[angel12]

Thanks Francisco .. The reason why I use RO water is that high levels are phosphate are known to increase the growth of algae in my case black beard alage and looking at the options of as you say obtaining Resin ie rowaphos or a similar product the cost involved of using these products along with the fact that they have to be changed and in some cases leach the PO4 back into the water I went along the Ro route simply due to economical reasons.. I appreciate that I am stripping all the usefull elements out of the water but at the same time im also adding them back in just not NO3 Chloromine and Chlorine and PO4 .... My Co2 is in line with the PH and the temp is matched there isnt realy anything else I can think of that would cause them at least for the first 20- 1hr to dash around so much .. they arent sick and off there food its as above im just trying to figure out if there is a more serious issue underlying as I dont want to put my Adults in only to find im going to cause them stress or discomfort ....

Im sure there are many people who use just straight Tap water in fact my T W is perfect for discus except I wanted a show tank not a BB im just aiming to pick the best route

Once again many thanks for your input
:)