Black Spots on Young Discus

[dchisenh]

Hey Everyone :),

I've done some more research, and have gotten myself a nice 75 gallon tank all cycled and ready to go with some discus, but I was wondering if the young discus at my LFS that have black spots on them will always have black spots, or will they grow out of it and look like these awesome discus I see online?

Thanks so much. :)

-Dan

[Carol_Roberts]

I'm guessing you are lookin at pigeon blood discus with black peppering. The peppering is pigment - like the vertical stress bars on other discus. While it may be less noticible on a healthy, happy mature discus, it does not "go away" any more than the vertical bars "go away" on other discus.

Some pigeon discus have very little peppering - a few specks here and there. Others are peppered over 50% or more of their body. Pigeons with the least amount of peppering are more sought after than those with lots of pepper. Many pet stores get second quality discus with lots of pepper.

[dchisenh]

That makes sense. :)

The ones at the LFS were pigeon bloods and red turquoise, the pigeon bloods did appear to be more "peppery" than the turquoise ones, now that you mention it. Oh well... :-\

-Dan

[Carol_Roberts]

Buy your discus from a reputable breeder or hobbyiest. One that lives in your area if possible. You will get healthier, prettier fish. Nothing is more fun than picking out your own discus from a breeder, unless it's opening a shipping box filled with bags of discus you've ordered.

What area are you from - maybe we can find someone near you.

[dchisenh]

I'm in Blacksburg, Virginia. Right near Virginia Tech. At the end of this summer I'll be getting my B.S. in Biology with an option in Biotechnology and an option in Ecology, but I wish they had a degree for Fish-Tank-ology ;D

[brewmaster15]

HI Dan,
Welcome to Simplydiscus! Working in biotech is great but i too wish they had a degree in fishtankology, and had some good placemnt services! :)

I agree with Carol here, especially if these are your first discus. Go with someone that specializes in discus... and obsesses over them. Discus can live for years if properly maintained... and can give you years of pleasure or several weeks of Hell if they come in sick, or as carriers.... Take a road trip and see some breeders if you can.

You can find a good LFS with good discus... but they are far and few between.

hth,
al

[dchisenh]

Hey Al, thanks for the welcome. :) I found this forum a month or two ago, when I first started looking at discus, and then stopped checking it while I was finishing up exams, giving presentations, and setting up the tank for them. Now that it's about time to think about introducing them, I was trying to find a good source for nice, quality fish and I had hoped that the ones my LFS had (which didn't look too bad, except for the black spots) would work for me. But, I really don't like the look of the black "pepper" on them. I really like a particular saltwater fish called a Potter's Angel (Centropyge potteri) and have a nice little salt set-up that I'm going to get one for, and I think it would look cool to have some freshwater discus in a planted tank and the Potter's in a reef tank for comparison. Here's a link to an image of a Potter's Angel, it's a dwarf angelfish that looks to me a "little" bit like a Pigeon Blood Discus. ;)
http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/natsci/fish/potters.html

Anyway, thank you Al and Carol for helping me out so much. If either of you know of any breeders that are around my area that I should checkout, please let me know. Thanks so much. ;D

-Dan

[Carol_Roberts]

that is a very striking yellow and blue saltwater fish. I think an orange based pigeonblood would clash. I'd go for a blue discus for contrast like a blue diamond or violet reflection. Another attracative option would be a red based wild

[dchisenh]

The Potter's Angels that I've seen in person are much more orange than the one in the picture, and the blue is absolutely electric, especially towards the base of the tail. One of my favorite saltwater fish, ever. :)

I would like to get just some basic red/blue ones and maybe a pigeon blood or two for the 75. I was thinking maybe 4 small ones, two of each type, would look nice in the 75, housed with a school of about 20 neons (I know they might end up as "discus candy", but if that's what happens, oh well). A black background, white sand, some nice driftwood and some dark green java moss are my tank decorations. I like my tanks to look as natural and basic as possible. Lighting is provided by a single 40 watt 6500K NO fluorescent and a single 40 watt NO actinic, to help bring out the blue of the discus. I also have a couple Bala sharks I'd like to add to the tank, since they're so peaceful. They would make an interesting contrast, body shape and color-wise, with the discus, I'd think. Would they be ok with them?

-Dan

[Willie]

Dan;

Drive up to Temple Hills, MD (maybe 2 hours) and visit Enchanted Discus. Also, forget about keeping any other fish in the tank. You'll understand after visiting Joe's place. Check out www.enchanteddiscus.com (http://www.enchanteddiscus.com). IM if you have questions.

Willie

[Discus_Hans]

Good advice Willie, Hans.

[April]

Hi and welcome. let us know what you get. one thing.is if you do have a black background..it will show up the pepper on a pigeon blood alot more than a light blue background. so maybe youd be better to stay with the blue red barred fish. if you do want neons....then maybe go for cardinals instead as they do better with discus than neons.
another small tetra that goes well with discus are rummy noses. But....i honestly think the fact your new to discus..you should start with a group of 6 discus and no other fish till you learn to care for discus. you could always add other fish later once theyve grown well.
most of us have bare bottom tanks and give 4 or 5 meals a day.. so its easier to clean and do wc etc. the more clean water the better the growth.

[dchisenh]

Hmm...seems like I've got more research to do then. ;)

Thank you so much for the head's up about Enchanted Discus, Willie. :)Unfortunately, it'll be awhile before I can arrange a time for a trip to MD, since I'm still down here at Tech finishing up classes (stupid physics...too much math for us biologists, I think ::))

Thanks for the welcome and the great advice April. ;D I've looked at Rummy-nose tetras as well, but what sealed the neon/cardinal deal for me is a program on the National Geographic channel called "Built for the Kill". I know it sounds gruesome, but I absolutely love the realistic set-ups and field shots they show. If you look close enough, you can see that they splice in field footage with captive footage, and I saw a field shot of a small stream in the Amazon with a Kingfisher bird swooping down and eating cardinals. The sheer number of the cardinals in the water was mesmorizing. I knew right then and there I had to have a med/large school of cardinals in my tank, but since none of my LFS carry cardinals, I went with neons. Still, awesome looking if you ask me. ;D
Also, I didn't even think about the background making the black peppering of a Pigeon Blood show up more...very good point.

Still, one of the things I love to do is create small ecosystems, not just show-case a single species, since you'd rarely if ever find that situation in the wild. For example, I have a 30 long that I've turned into a South-East Asian themed tank. With the exception of the two amazon sword plants and one or two plant species, all of the fish and java moss are found in the Indo-Pacific region. I have 3 Bala sharks (which I was planning on moving to the 75 gallon when they got big, to help clean up after the discus), 6-Praecox rainbowfish (they're awesome looking, huge too!), a mated pair of Golden Wonder Killifish (they're spawning regularly in the Java moss), about 10 Khuli loaches, solid black and the traditional striped, and two Hillstream loaches, they look like little stingrays and they eat algae and shrimp pellets...sooo cool. :) Also a few glass shrimp and the omnipresent snails for extra clean-up duties. I like that setup because it has all the essentials of the ecosystem, plenty of plants, scavengers, herbivores, predators, etc. that balances things out.

I was thinking of I was thinking of going with a medium sized school of neons or cardinals if I can get a LFS to order some, those three Bala sharks to help clean up what the discus miss, and maybe a pleco of some sort to eat a bit of algae if it forms, but I'd have to keep an eye on him to make sure he won't harass the discus. I was only planning on getting a pair, or four at most, of discus, to act as the show-piece fish of the tank.

Of course, since everyone here has been saying to go with more discus and no other fish...I guess I'm going to have to rethink my plans. :-\

-Dan

[April]

for pleccos id get bushynoses. they dont bother the discus and are the best algae cleaners and they are kinda cool and ugly at the same time . and they are natives to where the discus live. theres also albino bushy or bristle noses. so are rummys by the way.another neat fish that i like that is in the amazon is the marble hatchet fish. i saw a show on them and how they all leap if something is coming to get them.
your natural habitat tanks sound really neat. ive kinda collected fish that all came from the amazon.but havent really added them just ended up with them all in one tank minus the discus. i also have a snowball plecco which is black with white spots. hes from the amazon also and stays smaller. hes in with some of my discus now and doing well. very attractive. also the gold nuggets are nice. or the queen arabesques . all from the amazon. the bigger ones....the sailfin ones sometimes get a likiing for the slime coat on the discus and then your discus will have round spots on them. so id try to stay with a smaller species.
try the aquabid and see if you can find anyone who breeds..never know.
most of the cory cats also come from the amazon. i have little panda cories which were from wilds when i got a group of them. mine are f1's. and i have had some babies . they are good with discus as they dont bother them at all. nice if you have a group of them.

[dchisenh]

Hey April :),

I do think hatchetfish are pretty cool looking, their "flight" tactic to avoid predation is pretty cool and is a very old one, evolutionarily (flying fish come to mind, as well as ancient flying sharks... imagine that one :o ) The only thing I would be afraid of is them constantly being startled by me or other fish and them giving themselves concussions on the glass lid. ;)

The bushy-nosed plecos are definately weird looking, but I was planning on rescueing a large snow-king pleco from the LFS that is currently "surviving" in a 29 tank from when someone brought him in a couple of weeks ago. He's awesome looking, but he was apparently in the tank with something that was aggressive, most likely some sort of cichlids, and has a couple small bite marks on his tail, which have begun to heal already. I just think that a 75 would be a nice retirement home for him, so to speak. That's why I was thinking of a pleco in the first place.

As far as discus goes, I'm wondering if I'm making a mistake trying to put them into a tank with small tetras and Bala sharks. :-\ Although the image of a school of shimmering neons/cardinals along with a couple lumbering but also shoaling Bala sharks, and maybe a small school of cory cats is what I'd like, it seems like most people I talk to say that the discus would be too startled by them and wouldn't do well. I was wondering how that can be if they're all from the same region to begin with (except the Balas)? ;D

Do you think maybe just a pair of discus would do ok in a community tank like that?

I'm just imagining the scene now and thinking about what I should do, since I have some spare time at work right now and am just keeping myself busy online. :) Thanks so much for all your help so far, this is an AWESOME forum. ;D

[April]

I dont think the coarie cats would startle discus nearly as much as bala sharks. mine hardly notice them. just think their a silly little thing on the bottom.
havent seen that kind of plecco..
my hatchets never took flight. think maybe the first while as their settling in to their new surroundings you may need the lid tightly shut. think a group of them would be neat .
id say a pair of discus would be fine..if their actually a pair or a male and a female. otherwise there would be fighting etc. id say 4 minimum. three is not good at all.