Help Carol & Everyone - have i done the right thing???

[yippy]

I went to the aquarium shop to by my discus live brine shrimp and while i was waiting to be served (it was very busy today) I was looking at their discus. One of them I saw at easter time had been moved from a big display tank into a tank about 60 litres ( i dont know why they moved him). He was very black and VERY stressed out and there hasnt been been any improvement in him since easter. Well today he is pitch black still and laying on the bottom of his (not very clean tank) on his side. At first I thought he was dead but hewasnt. I was so upset, then i noticed another juvenile discus in the tank below him and it was head down tail up!. I couldnt believe it as all their other tanks are spotless, the also have a large range of saltwater fish and they ar eprobably the best iveseen around here.I went and hid in the goldfish section and I rang the girl who bred my discus from my mobile phone (or cell) for advice on what the problem could be and she told me her thoughts and suggested I tell them to dose them with with Metro. I didnt know how to approach the guy so i asked him if he was medicating them and he said he had a while back with some stuff they sell in the shop but no improvement and asked me what metro was! I explained yo him what it was and he said hed get a prescription off a doctor or vet when he had time, well these poor things (especially the bigger one) didnt look like they had much time so I told him i had a bottle of 200mg metro at home on hand for emergencies and that i'd go home and get it and hopefully do these poor fish some good. When i came home i printed him out a 7 page thread from simplydiscus on metro and took it over to him so he didnt think i was some mad woman trying to drug his fish! he was VERY impressed!!!!He said he believed me anyway but the next problem was the dirty tanks! I had already been a bit embarrassed about mentioning the sick fish in the first place but all the people waiting and browsing were all pointing at the big black one anyway! I came up with an idea!!! I said before you use this stuff you need to do a 50% water change and a good vac of the bottom (no gravel on bottom but heaps of poop) clean the filters and clean the inside of the glass because gill flukes can be caught from dirty tanks and the medicine would NOT work! I said if he was too busy i would clean their tanks for him but hesaid it got quiet in later the afternoon and he would do what i advised. I realised when i got home that he had the same sponge filter that i had in my juvenile discus tank which has 2 activated carbon compartments in it. I rang him and asked if the filters running in the discus tanks had the carbon removed and he said NO!!! So whatever the poor things were being treated with was probly doing no good anyway and to remove them. Can you believe this!!!!! Have I done the right thing? I had tears in my eyes thinking about them and needless to say i wont be buying fish off them again - even thought ive onlyever bought a few neons and a couple of bristlenoses off them, and for that matter, I wont be buying any live brine shrimp off them again. Even though i have had discus for 2 years theres still so much to learn. I rang my breeder back and she said at least they had a chance. Anyway he has the website address for simpkydiscus and reckons hes gonna join. Ill keep you posted on them!!! But i just hope ive done the right thing. ??? ???
Kerry

[yippy]

PS:
I have only ever bought those few fish and live shrimp from them as they have the best brine shrimp around here. All my other fish i bought off the breeder of my discus's shop but she has now closed the shop and is just breeding a few from home.
Kerry

[lesley]

Good on you Yippy,

It is always sad to see cases where people think "it's only a fish" or it's only "whatever" and don't care if it dies because of neglect of their basic needs.

[yippy]

Yeah its so sad, if they cant look after discus they shouldnt have them. I felt like doing a water change on all their discus tanks. Not that they'll have them much longer if things stay the way they are. Poor fishies. Im getting my boyfriend over tomorrow to have a sneaky peek if theyve done anything. Ill keep you posted.
Kerry

[nalah]

Hi Kerry
I've done this myself on a couple of occasions.
Truth is,
1.most LFS do not know how to care for discus.
2.all tanks run off same system thus spreading diseases etc.

they usually only get a few discus in the hope of selling them off real fast.any unsold fish usually dont live long after that. or some poor discus new commer buys sick fish and it dies at their place.

i have done other animal rescues also,because it breaks your heart to see them in such but conditions.

perhaps it's the responsibility of the wholesaler/bredder to educate these petshops on correct animal care.and these shops should limit what livestock they sell.ie.only sell animals they know how to care for themselves.
its a catch-22.

[April]

Yippy..you did well.but we shall see if he medicates or takes your advice. hope he carries on with it....no excuse with the meds. but definitley sounds like the dirty water and tanks was alot of the problem. if it had constant changes of clean water.it might turn it around.
he could also add salt...
i was thinking maybe you were gonna say you dragged them home. be a worry having them near your fish.
and very sad to see.but we cant rescue all the lfs discus.
although we do have some people on the forums who have rescued some and turned them around.
one being BRew. he has a fish he rescued. hes shown pics of it before as his rescued fish. and it turned into a very nice fish. when he stops with the new water change schedule he has...he can maybe post it. kinda like a cinderella of discus story. lol.

[yippy]

Hi April, I felt like bringing them home but i wouldnt run the risk, maybe if i had a spare tank, the only spare i have is an outdoor goldfish pond thing on a timber pedestal and thats no good and i wouldnt run the risk of them being near my fish. We have 8 tanks here and people say now they need snorkels to visit us! I just really wanted to know if giving them metro was the good thing, it just happened so quick. I saved a one-eyed betta a while ago, then it cost me $25.00 for a heater!!! Im such a sook! Anyway i printed the topic about Metro on this site for him and he was very impressed, he said he was going to join up and try and learn more. Ill check on the poor fish tomorrow and take some more over in case, althought its no use without those water changes.
Thanks for your reply, Kerry

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Kerry:

Most shop owners know how to care for Africans and other tropical fish. They really think discus can be housed in the same way - and then the discus get sick and die. This is why so many shops don't carry discus. They either don't know or care to do the extra cleaning and water changes. Maybe you mae a convert today ;D

p.s. I was afraid you were going to say you brought the sick one home too. I'm glad to see you had better sense.

[Tristanyyz]

I saw a beautiful "Morning Sunrise"...or i think that's what it was called, at a LFS, over a week ago. Actually it was on hold for someone, and also i suspected it was about to get real sick...then i came back two days later, it was in the beginning stages of something serious, no slime but you could tell it was very nervous...

I almost rescued that fish, even tho it would stand out in my tank like a traffic light...i have mostly wilds, and this thing was bright red...I want to check in on it, and see if it looks any better...im in the mood to rescue a fish or two...even tho common sense tells me not to...

[yippy]

You more experienced discus people may know what these fish have. The juvenile is head down tail up, I couldnt tell if it had any slimy substance as it was a very light coloured pidgeon blood and not bloated (when i called donna - the girl who bred all my discus) from the store she said the juvenile could have an illness which is caused by feeding to many live blackworms but couldnt tell without actually seeing the fish. I asked the manager of the shop what he fed them and he said mainly flakes, live brine shrimp and occasionally worms. But then whoever bred the fish could have raised it on blackworms. As for the balck adult - i dont know what he is - hes pitch black. Ari & Scott came down to my place and we went around the shops here and they saw this fish at easter so thats how long its been. Donna advised me it could be PH shock from being moved from the big display tank into the other tank, temperature change etc but i checked all the temps out and they were all on about 29-30 celsius. Each tank has its own filtration and heater so i was able to tell from that. He is just so black and now lying on his side. Every now and again yesterday he would swim up noramlly but then go back down again, The guy said hed been doing it for a while. He look like he could have been a beautiful fish, the diplay had lovely discus in it but i cant tell which one he was - becaue he looks more lik a black moor goldfish than a discus now. His body shape is real nice. But i just kept looking into those poor eyes!!! I feel sorry for them but i have done what i can so that makes me feel a bit better. i even said to the guy when i took the metro back "right, now unfortunatley i have to go home and look after my own fish". I cant rescue every sick fish, but i was trying to help the best i could. Any ideas on what the juvenile could have? If i go there tomorrow to check on them i'll get the guys permission to take some pics and post them, he was eternally grateful for metro!

Kerry

[April]

the head down one may have devoured all the flake seeming the black one was not interested. ive had some that overdid when they were in a major growth spurt and the dominant fish.they too were head down for the night. but...by morning fine. if so..epsom salt. but it may be fine. or...who knows..could be a blockage or infection..
id tell him to add alot of salt. like a cup for each 10 gallons. cant hurt..could just be a skin infection from bad water.or could be virus if one was added different time from a different source. one may have been a carrier . or..my wilds went head down when they got sick with what my domestics had. didnt show the black really just a saddle a bit. of slime coat.
could be many things.

[Nightowl]

Hello all, yes its tempting to want to save sickly discus, but its usually not a wise path to follow... can even lead to a plague on all your fish! I know a hobbytist/breeder who last year got a transship of fish from Alabama and all his own fish were black in about 1 week. After 2 or 3 different antibiotics, it was heavy salt & w/c's that did the trick! Both his BD pair & "red diamond" pair are producing fry again, but were black as could be when ill. As far as lfs discus go, I'm lucky to work at a prominent tropical fish store & I own a number of nice specimens that I got there, but even w/ the knowledge I do have, there are others there that don't know what not to do w/discus, and it gets frustrating when something causes a breakdown. A store w/ a few discus should have no problem taking care of them. Kerry, its very kind of you to want to help save these fish. Discus are very strong and IMO take longer to die than most other sick fish and because of their value shops are hesitant to dispose of them, so everyone sees these crappy looking discus bobbing around for several months and this just enhances the myth that they get sick easily and are weak(a myth that is diminishing I'm happy to say!). Remember, where there's life there's hope. Take care & good luck to all. Nightowl :vanish:

[yippy]

thanks for the replies guys, there are only a few fish shops where i live that carry discus, and theres only one good one - my friend donna - but her kids have grown to stage of taking them sports on weekends and stuff so she has closed the shop down. talk about bargains, she had everything half price on the last 2 days so i stocked up!! She had some beautiful discus but i just dont have the room for more. I cant understand this shop with the sick discus, their other tanks are spotless and they have incredible marine fish. By the way i did notice something ive never seen before. particles of stuff that looks like rice floating on the top - the guy told me it was algae. heard of that??? My boyfriend said "is that medicine!!!" he said nope, algae. ??? Also i just thought id let you know i just tried phone ari & scott but theyre out so ill call them tomorrow. They must be mum and dads by now!!!
i guess id better stop worrying about these fish - ive done my part! Plus my boyfriend says im too kind, i have a bad back at the moment and im on morphine for pain and im over there worrying about other peoples fish. I hope the guy does join up here so he can learn more - he has discus at home.
Kerry 8)

[yippy]

i do have enough room in the bedroom for a quarantine tank, i should put it on the guy to give me a tank, filter and heater and if they get well sell them to someone who know how to look after them on his behalf!!! But the 2 fish both have different problems so its probably not a good idea putting them in one tank. Dont worry, just thinking out loud!!!!
Kerry