pairing activities

[shamsoo]

hi, 10 fishes 7plus inches males and 6 plus females are in 150 gal tanks feeding them heavily on beefheart and earthworms, w/c 25 % daily but no pairing off activites are observed , what else I shud do to get some pairs? water gh 10 kh6 ph 8, thanks ;D

[shamsoo]

pls I do need some adv on this thanks

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Shamsoo:
I'm not ignoring you . . . I just don't know the answer. Some of my discus breed like rabbits . . . others act like they have taken a vow of celibacy. My water is very similiar to yours.

So have you tried worming them?

[shamsoo]

thanks Carol. no I didnt deworm them can you let me know how to do it?

[dred]

Shamsoo,

From my collected bag of tricks ...

Provide them with a few spawning site options that are located in easily defensible locations in the tank.

Generally: up the water change percentage (i.e., at least 50%). If that isn't enough to trigger breeding ideas, You can try making the replacement water a little cooler.

Secondarily: some discus are very finicky about breeding water. You water is "hard" by "spawning success" standards. So, you might need to soften it a bit - I'd try peat first as getting that quantity of stable regenerated RO can be a lot of work and may not be necessary.

But, overall, I'd test nitrates. If they are very low, i.e. <10ppm, you are likely providing them with excellent water. If they are higher, this may be an indication that you can improve their water conditions.

At any rate, I've collected these ideas/tools from lots and lots of folks here at Simply. I've got juveniles that paired up well before I plan to get involved, but I think they are responding to very good water. And, FWIW, the spawning behaviors happen like clockwork during their midnight water change - about 1/2 hour in, they start cleaning and making eggless spawning passes - since I don't have anything convenient for them to spawn on (trying to discourage or delay the behavior, so they can concentrate on growing) their attentions are currently on the lift tube on the hydrosponge (guess it was that or the aquarium glass <LOL>).

hth,
milton

[roger]

Ill throw this one in to the mix because it was just so strange.

I have a pair that bread twice, once 6 months ago in a community tank and once by themselves. The eggs never made it past 2 days.

Since then they have been in a 125gal community tank eating like pigs but otherwise not doing a thing. Darn if I didnt move a breeding cone 12"s from the side of the tank to the middle that I had eggs an hour later.

The lesson being clean water, good food with a touch of location location location.


Tricks that I have heard of.

1. Large water change with cooler water that results in a 2-3 degree drop in tank temp. People usually talk about 50+ % for this to happen.

2. pH rise, by that I mean it goes from being a stead 5 to a sudden 5.5 or 6.

Both of those are based on simulating the rainey season down in the Amazon.

Peace,
Roger

[black rat]

Hi Roger,
If i want to get a reluctant pair to breed what often works is as youv'e said .....a large water change of slightly cooler water.
When i say large its normally around the 50% mark.

[Carol_Roberts]

What kind of wormers can you get in your country? Piperazine, flubendazole, praziquantal?

[shamsoo]

thanks all for helping, now two pairs have formed, cleaning the pipe and pushing away all other fishes from their site, now at this stage should I let them to lay eggs or to take out the pairs and put them in their individual tanks, I am feared if they lay eggs other fish will eat the eggs, as it will be very difficult for them to protect eggs from other fishes
your adv pls, ??? TIA

[Carol_Roberts]

Leave the pairs and take out the other fish. If you move the pairs you may have to start the bonding process all over again.

shamsoo,
or you could leave all the fish and observe for overly agressive behaviour...
i've got some adults in a tank right now and two pairs have formed...there's eggs on the tank wall at the back corner, and eggs on a cone at the front corner....each pair guards their eggs and the remaining un-attached adults congregate near the middle...you don't know for sure that they''ll have successful spawns, so by leaving the other fish in there you might teach them to become protective/attentive of their spawns(if they spawn)..
it is a 150 gallon tank! that's plenty of room to have a couple spawns going on, and the other fish can still get along...let them spawn a couple times and then move the pairs to breeder tanks...my 2 cents...david ;)

[shamsoo]

thanks Carol & David, I will leave the fish with other and see how they do, will update TIA :D

[limige]

not to stir to pot or anything, everyone is giving great advice. i was given the same advice previously. but so far some of my pairs spawn best when i skip 3 days of water changes and then hit them with a large change of 65% slightly cooler water. they seem to be reluctant with me changing 50% per day.

on the other hand i change 30-40% per day in my 55 with 5 blues and they have taken to pairing and picking at the pvc.

the only success i've had was a pair of turks, that at the first signs of dry runs i gave them their own tank. after a couple months i went to transfer that tank onto the rack i just built and noticed they laid eggs for the first time. well i moved the tank anyway, put the fish in, then their eggs and they let them be. after 3 more spawns (in a dirty tank) they had a success, i now have 18 5 week old babies.

basically change triggers breeding. do something different. if one trick doesn't work try another. sooner or later you'll figure out something! play with temp, conductivity, water changes. and maybe ph. i've recently thought of trying lower ph with my wilds.

good luck, keep us updated.
mike

[shamsoo]

hi, here is the update: luckily all 10 fishes are now 5 pairs , 5 males and 5 females I can see their breeding tubes thats why I am sure to say 5 pairs, 2 pairs in one tank and 3 in another, fierce fight is going on to take over spawning site between all three pairs and lots of shaking and cleaning pipe, although 2 more sites has given but it looks every one like the same spot, temp is little bit high 31 deg C ph is 8.1 gh and kh is same, I have prepared the water of ph 7.0, today I will make small w/c with 7.0 water hope ph change might trigger them to lay eggs, pls adv if something more I can do ? thanks :D :D :D :D

[Carol_Roberts]

You are almost there. 8) The race is on to see which pair produces first!

[limige]

congradulations!! don't get too fusterated when they start laying eggs with no wrigglers, drives many people insane! you may get lucky but good luck none the less!! what got them going?!

[shamsoo]

w/c with altered ph, colors deepend, both pairs setteled down to their spawning sites, third one is in the middle nowhere to go getting charged by both pairs, poor fellows they have to wait until one lays eggs and transfered to their breeding tank, will update thanks Carol and limige

[shamsoo]

saw something strange today, males had changed their partners, swiming with different females and protecting their spawning sites, is this normal?? ???

[shamsoo]

some funny things are happening, two females are cleaning their spawning sites and both are interested in one male, first one gave the dry runs on pipe and male goes there and stays second one also starts dry run and few seconds she went to male and bring him back on her site, then first one left and done same thing, male is swing back and forth with both females, none of them laid the eggs till this time can some one explain why this thing is happening and what is the solution for this, thanks

[Carol_Roberts]

Probably teenagers - haven't got it all figured out yet . . . more time . . . .

[limige]

lol, yeah, they're young trying to pick their mate and the predominant male is taking his place. you should notice before too long him pair with one female imparticuar.

but beware, that male will pick on any other males that tries to intrude. if he beats up on some of the others too badly you may have to seperate some fish to avoid and infection or desease taking over. my young turks got so bad i found scales on the bottom of the tank from an rsg or mine, needless to say the turks came out pretty quick and now have freeswimmers for the first time!