Not Eating, Wasting Away

[SlippedDiscus]

I've got 5 discus in a 42 hex. 3 PBs and 2 BDs. Have had them just over a year. My biggest BD is the problem. He looks healthy, but has not eaten for about 2 weeks. Hides behind the intake tube. His color is good, and he is not clenching, nor is he bloated. Feces normal. He goes quite pale when I do WCs, but other than that, looks normal.

He stopped eating a couple months ago, at which time I treated with flubendazole. No improvement, waited a week or so, then used hex. He got better for a few weeks, but then stopped eating again. I am now at the end of a regime of kanacyn, but have seen no results thus far (followed instructions posted in this forum).

My water parameters are good. I've got the tank temp up around 89-90, and I've also treated with epsom salt. WCs every day. Filtration is an Eheim Ecco and a big Penguin HOB (sorry can't remember the size).

FWIW and a little background, I lost my smallest PB about 2 months ago. He had always been runty, and skinny, but he hung in there for a long time. At the end, he was swimming tail down, head up, and still going aggressively for the food, but wasn't actually eating anything (you had to watch closely to see that, because he "acted" like he was eating). Now one of the other PBs looks to be following that same path, although he is still eating at this point. Just started the tail down thing sporadically about a week or so ago.

My smallest BD looks awful. He is runty and bloated beyond belief and has a strange yellow undertone. But he has been like this for maybe 6-9 months? And he eats and swims around, although seems to have some solidarity with his bigger blue bro in hangin at the back of the tank.

Wow, what a motley crew, huh? But I am most worried about the big BD, because he's a beaut and I would hate to lose him, but I don't know what to try next. Sure would like to get him back on track while he's still looking fairly good (he doesn't looked wasted yet but I figured it's only a matter of time).

On the bright side, my 2 big PBs are doing awesome, eating aggressively and growing like weeds. They finally passed up Big Blue, which I never thought I would see happen.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

[Carol_Roberts]

There definately is some problem in the tank. You have had this tank running for over a year. Do you have gravel, plants and other inhabitants?

It sounds like you only have 3 regular sized discus and 2 runts? So your tank isn't over crowded, but a 42 hex is an odd size - tall and not very much swimming room.

I think intestinal flagellates is what you need to treat for, but what is stressing the discus? You treated once, discus were better for a little while, but now sick again. So won't do any good to continue treating with metro if you don't fix the underlying problem.

If you have gravel and do not clean your filter media you could have a high bioload - even though you add lots of new water everyday.

You've tried Flubendazole, Hex-a-mit and Kanacyn.

Have you tried a bare bottom tank set at 86 degrees with 50% daily water changes and cycled sponges in the HOB Penguin filter for at least two weeks. Offering clean live foods such as blackworms or frozen foods like bloodworms and ONF1 (Ocean NutritionFlake).

[SlippedDiscus]

Carol, thanks for your reply and concern. To answer your questions, yes to the gravel, no to plants and other inhabitants. It's a discus only tank I gravel vac every day when I do WCs. Going bare bottom is not really an option. I feed Hikari frozen blood worms exclusively, since that is the only thing my fish will eat consistently. I had also fed some dry flake, but was advised on this forum to discontinue due to bloating issues...only a couple of the fish ate it anyhow, most of them just ignored it and I felt it was just dirtying up my tank.

I just cleaned the Penguin as a matter of fact, but haven't done the Eheim in a while. It used to get bogged down and go low-flow, and I had to clean it out about once a month, but since adding the Penguin, I haven't had it clean it that often, as the flow is very good. I have TONS of algae, which is what had been gunking up the eheim. Now not so much, and the Penguin is a lot easier to clean.

Ok, here's my ignorant question. My Penguin just has some eheim substrate in the filter basket and that is all. I was also using carbon, but took it out when I began medicating the tank, and have not put it back in. I was not aware there were any sponges that fit the Penguin. When I bought it at my mom & pop fish shop, they offered only the carbon as a filter media. I added the substrate when I got home and saw that empty basket that needed media. Obviously the eheim has sponges and substrate.

Edited to add, I don't have a Penguin, I have an Emperor. DOH! :-\

You mention stress. Well I guess I'd say I've got 2 stressed fish (my 2 BDs) and 3 very happy fish. My 3 PBs are always swimming around energetically, come and dance at the front of the tank when I walk by, go crazy for their food, etc. The big blue used to be right there with them, but now never comes forward and just hangs at the back of the tank. The little blue is inconsistent....sometimes hangs back with the other BD, sometimes comes forward to eat with the PBs.

[barron]

I agree with Carrol.

I will point out the gravel should go.

Your discus have been getting larger and the hex tank may not have enough surface area for the fish load.

The formula slips me now.

But in a 48x13x18 tank you would have 11,232cu. inches div. by 231 = 48.6 gallons which comes out using 10 gal rule per discus 5 Discus.

The surface area you would have here is 624 sq inches div. by 5 Discus = one discus per 124.8 sq surface inches.

So check your surface area, some 100 gallon plus hex tanks can only have one or two fish in them. They are 6 ft tall plus and are useless.

You should have about 124.8 sq inches per Discus.

Surface area is more important then total gallons.

hth

Barron

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi SD:

You can cut sponges to fit in your emperor or better yet . . . Cell Pore makes a ceramic slab just for emperors. They are wonderful.

I am going to guess that the BD is not recovered from intestinal flagellates.

Did you raise temperature to 92+ and dose everyday with 400 - 500 mg metro (hex-a-mit) for 3-5 days following a 50% water change?

[SlippedDiscus]

Yes, Carol, that's exactly how I did the hex treatment. I'm thinking I'll give it one more go, however, as soon as I finish the course of Kanacyn (just one more dose to go).

Thanks for the heads up on the Cel Pore ceramic slab. I'm going to look for that.

To clarify on the hex treatment.....do you, or do you not, do water changes on the days when you are adding the medication?

[Carol_Roberts]

I would wait a few days after the kanacyn treatment.

If you tried the daily dose of metro, perhaps you should try dosing every 8 hours for three days.

That is 400 mg metro every 8 hours with a 50% daily water change (of 92+ degree water - 33 or 34 Celcius). Add extra air with high temps. Keep heat up for another week past treatment then slowly lower 1 or 2 degrees per day until down to 86. May take a week after treatment to begin eating