need saltwater help..cmon cmon i'm impatient ;)

[ReeferKimberly]

ok i need some saltwater experts. i know NOTHING and i mean NOTHING about anything saltwater. i want to start my 55 gallon as a my first saltwater tank. i have everything and more for a fresh tank, what else to do i need for a salty? i know i need...salt, sand probly, and whats a protien skimmer, is it nessecary?
ok gimme links, knowledge, anything you have cuz i need it alkl! what are the steps to be taken? can i cycle a salty with a freshwater filter? do i need a totally diff filter? what are the heating requirements?

as you see, i need to know everything!
thanks guys!
kimberly

[AndyL]

http://reefcentral.com/

Go read up :) Totally different systems; for a reef filtration is based on live rock and current (flow from powerhead etc), think of them as pre-cycled filters with free flora/fauna :)

Andy

[Richman]

Hi Kim,

I'm no expert but I have had a few salt water tanks over the years, so I'll try to answer a few of your questions real quick.
You will need more things than is necessary for fresh water.
There is a variety of substrate that can be used. I am partial to sand because I found it easy to vacumn with the large end of the python and easy to clean. It also comes in a variety of colors. U can also use crushed coral, and other choices. You will need a hydrometer to measure the specific gravity of the water and salt water test kits.
And of course, salt. I used Instant Ocean. Any brand will do I'm sure.
Yes, a protien skimmer is a good choice. It's purpose is to remove solids and waste from the water to reduce polution. This is advisable in a salt tank, as water changes are much more expensive and you probably won't be doing them every day. LOL Every time you do one, you will have to use more salt mixture. It isn't as easy as fresh water changes.
Wet dry filters are, of course, the best for any tank. I used two Emperor 400's (HOB) with bio wheels on a 100 gallon tank for a couple of years and they worked great.
I just cycled with cheap damsel fish and you can even use some fresh water fish like mollys or platys. They are brackish fish and will acclimate to salt water if you add the sw slowly over a couple of hours.
Be sure that you don't ever overcrowd the tank and cause nitrates or nitrites to build up. When it crashes it is a mess and far more expensive to clean up than fresh water.
Just go slow. Be patient. And don't ever break any rules and salt tanks are easy to keep.
Yes, you will need a heater.
Also do your homework on fish. It is easy to see beautiful fish and buy them, but some have very specialized needs and won't survive long without them. Start with clowns, damsels, etc. Don't buy a fish till you have done your homework on it and know exactly how to care for it. The variety of salt water fish and their specialized long term needs are mindboggling. Good luck

[ReeferKimberly]

ok i did a no no.....
i set up my tank woo hoo. and i bought a few things.... i got a domino damsel, a yellow tail blue damsel, a three stripe damsel, a green chromis, and a cleaner shrimp. well i think i didn't let the salt dissove enough and the shrimp....well he's pretty dead, i'm pretty sure. the salt was all lingering at the bottom and the fish could escape the high concentration, but the shrimp was stuck there. well now he's either dead or in shock and i have him in a net about half way down the tank. i have little hope for him :(
the tank has been set up and has cycled filtration already. i'm not buying anything else till i get home from our beach vacation on august 3rd.
wish the shrimp luck, or at least wish his warrentee luck :(
ok my first loss, within 1 hour of my first saltwater tank. tisk tisk tisk bad me shame shame.
kimberly
btw, thanks guys for the advice! even tho i didn't read it till i had alreayd bought the fish. at least i got the damsels tho as my first.

[Richman]

LOL. Sorry about the mess.
When you get it back, try it this way.
First get the tank set up and the water and salt properly mixed. Do a test and make sure the specific gravity is correct. It may require adding salt or diluting it. Let the tank sit for a day or two making sure it is stable. Then add ONE fish and feed him sparingly. Keep him for a week or so and when you are confident things are fine, you may add another one. You never want to overload. When the tank crashes, it will be completely start over time. Always follow this procedure carefully. Carefully monitor nitrates and nitrates and Never overload your tank. Keeping saltwater fish is a lesson in patience and self control. Slow down.
The reason I advised starting with damsels is cause they are less expensive when you kill them in the beginning. LOL
Try again and good luck.

[ReeferKimberly]

its the next morning and all four tiny fish are fine. i fed a bit of flake (didn't wanna start with anything more just in case it was just gonna be ignored) and man, no one ever said how voracious of eaters saltwater fish are compared to fresh! the domino damsel is the most aggressive little guy and darts from one flake to another and tries not to let anyone else have any. this tank seems so huge for them but i will probly only get a couple more fish for it ever. eventually i want some clownfish, a pacific blue tang, a yellow tang, and well another cleaner shrimp. and even farther down the road when i really know what i'm doing, i want maybe an eel or something really cool like a lionfish (but not with the damsels, theyd be lunch).
also, the tank is bare except for crushed coral and a conch shell. what would you recomment for a beginner to decorate with? i was thinking maybe live rock or something. i have thought about coral, is there any way to get captive bred coral instead of stuff from the ocean? also, anenomes and similar stuff, how hard are those to keep?
thanks richman and others!
kimberly :-*

[Nightowl]

Hi Kimberly, Nightowl here. How are you? Just a couple of pointers: don't overstock & don't overfeed as a saltwater tank is not as forgiving as a freshwater tank, at a ph of 8.3 ammonia is much more lethal. Also, I wouldn't recommend adding any fish once nitrites go up, and they will.... and they will stay up for several weeks, and just when you're giving up they come crashing down to zero in a day or so! Then you can add another fish or two, and I would have tank running for 3 months before I tried any angelfish, and a juvenile Koran angel is a good 1st choice... very hardy... and ALWAYS make sure a fish is eating b4 you buy it. If the Angel does well then you can try some of the more delicate fish like butterflies, etc. A lot depends on what direction you go w/ fish assortment....green chromis are least aggressive of damsel family, dominoes one of more aggressive. Good luck!!!! J.T. :vanish:

Hey Kim

Ive just got a 10 gal nanoreef, so what i know is mostly read or learned from friends.

One thing about salt is try to keep the stocking really low compared to freshwater, something like 1"-2" of fish per 5 gallons. Wc's are expensive like Richman said, and even with a protien skimmer your nitrates are gonna climb. there are ways to deal with the nitrates but thats a whole nother thread. ive been reading reef central (great place to learn) for a good 2-3 hours a day for the last 3 weeks after i started getting an itch for a bigger reef tank. They're as bad as discus

The way i learned to cycle a salt tank, and i did this with my 10 gal, was put in your sand and live rock, throw in a lil piece of shrimp, and let the rock go through its cycling like in a freshwater. Same thing as fishless cycling. you also dont need a filter, just powerheads for LOTS of water flow, the live rock is your filter, and better than any man made filter. Ive got an 85 gal/hour power head moving water in my nano and ive been thinking of putting something a big bigger in there, marine fish love lots of flow.

If you want any corals check out their light requirments before you get any. Most need VHO, and dont know how tall a 55 gal tank is...but thats probably gonna need Power compact flourescent lighting, and those setups arent anywhere near as cheap as the 10 buck 48" lights from home depot.

Like richman said, take it slow. they're beautiful fish, and expensive setups, dont rush it and do some more reading.

Have fun, and goodluck with the tank.

Josh

on edit: 2 more things, i let my live rock cycle in the tank for 6 weeks before i put anything else in. Your gonna get LOTS of hitchhikers and have all kinds of crap crawling out of, and growing on the live rock. that stuff is an adventure in itsself.

And ive heard quite a few people very opposed to keeping any kind of tang in a tank smaller than 90g. They're very active, VERY fast, and most of them grow too big too fast.

[ReeferKimberly]

on a filtration note. i have a tetra tec 150, http://aquariumpros.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=TET26030&Cat egory_Code=TETpw&Product_Count=0, and a penguin bio-wheel 330 on the tank, http://www.petdiscounters.com/aquarium/filters/ml_penguin_330.html.
i originally just had the penguin, but added the tetratec for more flow. together they could handle up to an 85 gallon tank. do you guys think these will do the trick? the flow is huge and they move the water a lot.

ok i have been thinking of what to decorate with. i found a few links to beginner corals, a lot mention polyps of diff sorts. a few were the purple and green glove polyps, green zooanthus moon polyps, and yellow polyps. also mentioned were flowering colored gorgonians, Strawberry Chili Coral, Finger leathers, and Brain corals.
do any of you have experience with these? or anyone have suggestions for low-light corals?
also on the live rock thing, i have seen it sold and know what it looks like. thats about it. what is it's purpose? basically as a nitrate reducer? will coral adhere to it as well as anenomes?
thanks for everything!
kimberly :-*

[ReeferKimberly]

wow andyL, awesome place reefcentral is! SOOOOOOO MUCH TO LEARN, MY HEAD WILL BE FULL FOR AGES. don't worry, i wont let the discus suffer, but it looks as tho i may be starting a whole new big adventure!
kimberly :-*

[limige]

wow, you just keep coming back for more, well at least this will take your mind off the incooperative breeders of yours. lol

good luck with the salt, i wish to try it at some point but not for awhile yet.

mike

Hey Kim

The rock serves a few purposes, decoration, mounting points for corals, but the biggest is probably its filtration. Live rock is what holds all the bacteria for converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, same thing as a sponge filter for freshwater, just that live rock is supposed to be alot better than any man made sponge or filter set up.

if you ask anybody over at reef central they'll probably suggest 60lbs of live rock for your tank. depending on what you buy it can be anywhere from 5 bucks a pound to 10 bucks a pound. my little 10 gal has 140 bucks of rocks in it. discus expensive? aint got nothin on starting a marine tank.

Throw some rock in and let it settle for a bit, itll probably cycle AGAIN. the rock themselves put a higher bioload and th4e bacteria has to do its bloom thing and move into the new rocks. After its done the cycle then you can start adding corals.

Ive got a bunch of metallic green hairy mushroom corals, must be damn hardy cause i havent kill em ;D Rhodactis i think is their name.

As for flow, more ;D ;i think its something like 8-10 times tank size. my 10 gal has 85 gals an hour, 55 gal, probably 500-600 gals an hour turnover. Dont worry about them, these arent discus, they come alive when there's a nice fast current in the tank.

[limige]

well kim, hows the tank doing???

[Discusgeo]

Kim here is another place to learn from, it's called GARF.
http://www.garf.org/
My salt water tank is completly Live Rock, Live sand, Live Corals and Live Fish. As a newbie I am telling you to forget the 2 tangs as they are finniky eaters and unless you provide the right diet they will die a slow death. You do need the protien skimmer and some good lighting. I have 2 Power Compacts True Actinic 03 above my tank. 1-10,000 K Daylight and
1-7000K Because my tank is full of live Rock I do not need any other filtration, I threw away the wet-dry and all the other filters after a few years as they were useless in my book after I filled the tank with the Live Rock and Sand. Before you jump in to far I would give GARF a good reading an see what you are missing.
George

[henryD]

You have gotten some good advice so far. With salt water tank, there is a number of ways to go. It depends on how much you have and what you want out of it.

If you just want a simply tank with some nice fish. They the filters you have is fine. I would add a protein skimmer.

If you want to keep a reef system or live rocks then you need to invest in some good lighting. That can get very very expensive.

I had a reef tank and a tank with just live rocks for awhile. They get pretty addictive.

As for fish, I would definetly do research before buying any. A 55 gallon tank is a good size but it is nothing when your trying to reproduce an entire ecosystem. You will have fish in a very small space with some natural predators and different water requirement.

I think damsels are a good start. They are pretty hardy fish. As for the shrimp I woud put it off until you get some more experience. Like everything else if you start off with good stock you will be fine. Just make sure you know what to look for when shopping for fish.

Good Luck.

[ReeferKimberly]

ok the tank is doing excellent! all except for my salt dissolving and instant frying of shrimp mistake, all is perfect! the live rock is good, the damsels are voracious eaters (the domino is kind of an aggressive little biayatch ;) ).
ok i uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm caved ;)
i bought three more fish, i know i know, bad me. but they are doing very well.
the first is a one spot foxface rabbitfish ( i know, confusing, it's yellow, has a black and white face, kinda looks like a tang, and has a big black spot. and oh yeah, when it wakes up or is pissed it turns brown)....
ok the second is a false percula clown fish (yes, just like nemo lol). i could NOT pass him up. i go to this place called aquaworld about three times a week, they know me really well and the owner gives me all kinds of cheap fish and supplies. well she sold me this sweet healthy clown for only $6.99! and their stock is excellent! well who am i to pass up that?!?
ok, number three, u will be really mad at this one. a zebra lionfish..ok ok don't scream. he is happy and healthy too... even eating some feeder minnows i had left over from my turtle, the salt water slows em down a bit for him ;) lol

i have NEVER followed all the rules, i have always had good healthy fish and done well. the tank is clear, the rock is keeping the excellent conditions of no nitrate, ammonia ect. and the ph is at a stable 8.2.
ok i'm sorry i gots me more fish, but i'm stubborn ;)
ok no yelling, i can't help myself, shame shame shame shame shame..........
kimberly :-*

[ReeferKimberly]

oh, i also got a hydrometer to test the salinity and specific gravity. the levels are within the green like smack dab in the middle so i'm good there to.

[limige]

so where' s the pics girl?! we wanna see too!!

one of these days i'll try salt but not yet..

[henryD]

wow....your giving me the itch back. THis is not good. I love lionfish. I have always kept them alone though. A tank full of those majestic fish are great.

Cut it out......


Don't take any pics. Not sure I can take it if you do. I have been avoiding the pet store for this reason.

[ReeferKimberly]

i'm sorry i accidently got rid of my photo program. so i have to find another one that can resize pics, or figure out how to resize pics correctly on photoimpression....
kimberly :-*

[limige]

k, update time, hows that tank doing?

[ReeferKimberly]

sorry i have no net at the moment and i have to go to an internet cafe.....i miss you guys!!!!!!!!
anyways, the tank is great, just hate the damn algae, no saltwater plecos grrr!!
i have only killed one cleaner shrimp and some mushroom coral i accidently fried with undissolved salt. anyone have any ideas on how to get rid of the algae thats on EVERYTHING?
my favorite fish by far is my zebra lionfish. in the beginning it took me two weeks to get him to eat, but now he eats one feeder fish at night and one in the morning. he is the coolest fish i have ever had. i also really like my big chocolate chip starfish. the thing seems to have sooo much personality! i have gotten somke coral and other than the mushrooms i killed, i still have other mushrooms and some leathers. just easy stuff till i really know what i'm doing.
i hope i get the net back soon, we should be getting dsl on the 30th. until then i still miss you guys!
kimberly :-*