This is doin my Head in help

[angel12]

I just cant figure this out at all there is something wrong in my tank but just cant get to Grips with it .. so hope some of you Gurus out there can help .....

Tank set up has been for about 4 months now added 4 adult discus approx 3 weeks ago . I feed them 2 times per day light is on for 11 hrs . had a bit of alage but nothing serious now over the last few weeks this BB (well I think it is this) Plants feel very slimey and u can see strands of fuzz of the leafs .....
I do water changes of 30% every other day using Ro water no PO4 no nothing in it obv mix essential minerals back in and add Discus essential also .. I also use JBL liquid fert every time I change the water ....

I did a reading today of my Nitrate and it is 9ppm and PO 4 is .025 so how come the alage is getting worse ?? what is going on in my tank I dont dose KNO3 or anything esle now ... my KH has also gone down from 2 to 1 and my Gh is 5 .. the Ph was 6.8 stable and now its 6 !

The fish seem fine no ragged edges on there fins or slime or anything else that I can see that is off ....

Thing is im affraid to put my CO2 unit back on as if im not carefull with a KH of 1 ill cause a PH crash .... how can I resolve any of the problems I have ..... Please be aware that I am based in the UK were certain Chemicals are not freely available so I need something that is widely used werever possible .. at the end of the day the fish are more important than the plants but it seems that things are going a bit haywire at the moment and I cant get a handle on it ....


:'(

[ChloroPhil]

Dave,

You need to add the CO2 back..your plants are taking the Carbon out of the Carbonate in your water, reducing your KH. It's known as Biogenic Decalcification. I'd do a water change as usual to get everything back up to where you want it to be and go from there. Your water parameters look great, except for the KH/pH/Carbon issue..

BTW, I saw your pictures on ThePlantedTank.com and it looks great! Why haven't you posted more pics here? :) Get your CO2 on track and I think you'll have everything right where it needs to be. It's been a hard road but you've done a great job.

[angel12]

Thanks Phil however I should have made myself a bit clearer ... the Kh dropped before I turned the Co2 off I was checking the Ph of my water in the tank do this every now and again out of intrest and the PH had gone down to 6.0 from 6.8 fish are like I said looking ok same as all the other occupants in the tank .... what you say would account for the Kh when I tested it last night being 1 .... but im a little tentative to stick the CO2 back in as the last thing I want is a Ph crash my test kit wont read below 6.0 ...

I must admit since I took the CO2 off the algae seems to be getting a hold :-\

Ill stick the CO2 back on and slow release ... and change the water ... Thanks for the input re the Tank .. im just getting a hang of this camera so ill try to get some better shots .... ...

to finalise correct me if im wrong if I put the Co2 back into the tank I hopefully will find that my alage dyes back a bit or is there something missing everything was going swimingly until I started to feed the Discus as you know I use RO water so im not putting PO4 back into the tank via this method .. just strange this thing has got a hold ... anyway once again many thanks much appreciated without your support and rorncas I would have never got this far ... :) :) :)

[ChloroPhil]

Perhaps it's been your use of RO that's reduced the KH of your system. Try adding 1 tablespoon of Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) to your system and measure the KH. By all means make sure you have your KH stable before using CO2 again. I think you're on the right track..

[RealFish]

Don't start your CO2 again until you get your KH to a reasonable level. Adding CO2 now will definitely crash your pH. I usually try to keep mine in the 3.5-4.0 range. One teaspoon of baking soda will raise KH by 4 dKH in 50 liters of water. I would probably bring it up fairly slowly, maybe over a couple of days.

If you have a pH controller on your CO2 injection system, you can bring KH up faster because the controller will automatically adjust pH as you add KH. I will still bring KH up over the course of a day to because it does take some time to get the CO2 disolved in the water.

Keeping a planted tank is a balance of light, carbon (CO2), macro (N,P,K) and micro nutrients. Having Nitrogen, Potassium, or Phosphate at zero is typcally not recommended. The general consensus is that in the absence of light, carbon or macro nutrients, algae will proliferate.

Here are a couple links with some excellent reading. I will also seek out the Sears Conlin article on the Krib.

http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/barr_02_01.shtml

http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/

[angel12]

Thanks Realfish/Phil :) I have read the related articels but am still at a loss as to what is actualy causing this algae to proliforate :'( tested my Ro water and my tank water RO water is 0 as it should be for PO4 and the Tank water is 0.25-.50 for PO4 Nitrate is no more than 8ppm I water change 30-40% every other day

Feeding 2 times per day with what many would describe as messey food beefheart and Diskusin the occasional Bloodworm is used ....

This stuff just seems to have taken hold recently and im at a loss as to what has caused it do you think the lack of NO3 could be helping the PO4... my Po4 test kit is only a couple of months Old ..

when you touch the leafs mainly the slow or broad leafed Plants they feel slimey and some of it can be moved off the Leafs but the more stubborn stuff is well almost impossible to get rid of .... apart from the Obv of taking the leaf or affected parts and scrubbing them ...

if anyone has any ideas id love to hear from them as things are going down hill here :'(

[RealFish]

My first guess would be the lack of carbon (CO2). Obviously the plants are stripping it from the KH. Bring your KH up while watching your pH. That being said, it is a fairly complicated balance.

I don't know that I would recommend feeding beef heart in a planted tank. It adds a lot decomposing matter to thae tank. If the plants are slimy and not from the algae, you are probably putting more food in than the tank can process.

[angel12]

Cheers realfish .. Just had an idea .. yeah I know but its an idea anyway I used to dose KNO3 due to low nitrate now I dont do you think that lack of Potassium could cause the alage ...... ? how would I know the levles of Potassium as there isnt a test kit is there ? also here in the UK the compound chemicals that you take for Granted in the USA/Canda arent freely available so is there an everyday compound that has Pottasium in it .....

Thanks for the reply by the way ..

[ChloroPhil]

Angel,

A lack of Potassium will definately cause algae growth especially with all the NO3 and PO4 you're adding to the system via meaty foods. Do you have access to a hydroponics or farm supply store? Potassium Sulphate should be easy to get. It's not useful in any explosive or anything like KNO3 is. :)

If you can't get dry chemical potassium take a look at your LFS's stock of liquid fertilizers. There are a few that are just potassium and iron, both of which would be beneficial. If it comes down to it you can always try a garden center and as them for a fertilizer high in potassium but low in nitrate and phosphorus. An ideal would be 0-0-30 (N-P-K).

You really need to get that KH problem dealt with as soon as possible though. Baking Soda and a few days of no light will do the trick.

[angel12]

Thansk Phil but why no light ? when you talk about my Kh ?

this is my last question on this topic .. just intrested to know why you say no light ??

many thanks

Dave

:)

[ChloroPhil]

Doing a blackout while increasing your Kh will keep your pH from going up too much as the plants will be putting off CO2. It'll also help keep algae at bay while the tank is transitioning with everything.

[RealFish]

I have not tried it myself, but some people use KCl (I thing that is the right formula) which is actually a salt substitute found in your local grocery store.

[ChloroPhil]

KCl is also known as Muriate of Potash and can usually be found at hardware stores as well. Be careful with it's use though...the Chlorine (Cl) will kill invertibrates when used as the sole K source.

[RealFish]

KCl is also known as Muriate of Potash and can usually be found at hardware stores as well. Be careful with it's use though...the Chlorine (Cl) will kill invertibrates when used as the sole K source.


Is that the salt substitute or have I got it wrong. KCl didn't seem quite right.

[Emanuel]

I've been using KCl in my planted tanks for years and the snails are as numerous as ever. IMHO, I would dose potassium up to 10-15ppm and keep the KH in the 2-3dH range. Good luck and let us know how it turns out! :)

[ChloroPhil]

RealFish,

I think it is the table salt substitute too.

[angel12]

Ok Guys so if I get this right what you are saying is look out for No salt I think this is what it is called here in the Uk it is a substitute for people on low salt diets .. is the right stuff ... Pottasium Chloride? would I have to be carefull with the Chloride and stupid question I know but how do I know when Ive dosed enough and does this need to be done at every water change .. what i mean is this a temp soloution that is used up Constantly I reckon I have apporx 140 Liters of water in the Tank at the moment allowing for Displacment .. is there a pottasium test kit avail ? or a way of actualy measuring it ...

[ChloroPhil]

It's hard to overdose Potassium so don't worry too much about it. Unless you've got shrimp in your tank I would dose 1/4 tsp KCl per 30g of tank 2x/week.

No, there aren't really any good affordable ways of testing Potassium.