Set-up for 40 discus!!

[RichardP]

Hey people,

Well tomorow im getting my 6ft tank! cant wait!

and also getting all the materials i need for the discus im getting.
Just wanted to know what type of filter i should get?
in the future i am planning to separate the tank into 3 and but 3 pairs of discus in for breeding.

do i need anything special for this?
Also my friend told me not to get a filter but to get a PVC pipes and drill heaps of holes in it then but a sponge around it and place an airstone in it.
i didnt really get what he meant but do any of you guys no?

is that all i would need?
tank, 250wtt heater, air pump maybe filter?

also would a hangon be more better than canister?

cheers all
Richard

[lkleung007]

Hi Richard,

A 6 foot tank which would be in the range of 125-150 US gallons. For that size of tank, I would use the following;

2 Aquaclear 500 power filters
2 250Watt Heaters
2-3 Hydrosponge IV filters and an air pump strong enough to supply the sponge filters (like a Rena 400)

A tank that size would easily house 12-15 adult discus I would think.

HTH, Lester

[korbi_doc]

:bounce2: :bounce2: Right on Lester!! Agree. My 125g has a Lifeguard filter system with micron filter & temp modules, only cuz I had'm from previous salt setup. Also put in 2 sponge filters rated for 80g ea, & 2 smaller ones to use for emergency setups. 4 airstones from a central linear pump keeps lotsa good air going. To begin the setup now I would go the AC 500 (2) route, as lester suggested.

The pvc-airstone combo would probably work, but these sponge filters are not too expensive, & much simpler to just set in place. I have 14 discus, 4 cories & 6 rams all doing ok. lol, good luck & have fun, Dottie ;D ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

I run two aqua clear 500's on that size tank. Each filter contains TWO internal sponges and I make a sponge pre-filter for the intake tube (keeps food and feces out of hte filterbox)

How are you going to cycle your filters?

[RichardP]

Hey Carol,

Im not sure on what fish to use to cycle the tank any ideas? i keep bettas so would they do?

also my friend told me a internal filter at 1000l/ph and a really good sponge filter would do the job, is that good enough?

also how the discus im getting would only be the size of a 10cent piece well AU 10 cent pice so around 3 cms, do you think they will survive the new change?

cheers
Richard

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Richard:
I would do a fishless cycle with standard household ammonia ( no lemon scent, not sudsy)

Get your tank up and running, add enough ammonia to register 5ppm ammonia on the test kit. You may have to add ammonia from time to time so that it reads 3 - 5 ppm. You start to register nitrIte in a few weeks continue feeding some ammonia. in another couple of weeks you will register nitrAte. Do a 90+% water change and add discus to your fully cycled, disease free tank. Adding a plant or decoration from a healthy cycled tank will speed the process, but may bring hitch hikers into your new tank. A true fishless cycle will take 5or 6 weeks - just like using dither fish . . . . but your filter will be ready for 40 baby discus.

Your 40 babies will do just fine IF your filter is fully cycled for that size fish load and your tank water is just like the water they are coming from. that means your tank pH matches theirs and have the temp about 86.

[Dave C]

Richard, to begin with you won't need a ton of biological filtration since the fish are small. Ideally I would put in a couple of cycled Hydro Sponge III's (or similar) and add a couple more new ones. The 2 sponges will do fine at the start and the others will get cycled in time for when you need them. Or you could run another form of filter rather then more sponges. The point I'm making is that your tank will be huge for 40 1" fish and you won't need much biological initially. So if you have some cycled media that is clean I'd use that. I've got 40 1" Discus in a 28g tank right now with 2 Hydro III's and they're doing fine.

If you're cycling the filters from new then I'd follow Carol's directions and use ammonia. It works best if you also add a couple of live plants (in pots so you can remove them later) and/or a media bag filled with gravel from a cycled tank. If you add Bettas you will create enough biological filtration to support a couple of Bettas, not much help there. And using other fish you run the risk of introducing disease.

[RichardP]

Do a 90+% water change and add discus to your fully cycled, disease free tank.



Carol when you said a 90+% water change do you mean at once of bit by bit during the timeline?

Well ill probably get 2 Ac 500's and 2 sponge filters then, but how do i get ammonia and where? also the nitrite stuff whats that?

cheers
Richard

[Carol_Roberts]

Carol when you said a 90+% water change do you mean at once of bit by bit during the timeline? At the very end, the day before you add the discus, do a 90%+ water change. The old water is full of nitrItes and nitrAtes

Well ill probably get 2 Ac 500's and 2 sponge filters then, but how do i get ammonia and where? I get mine at the grocery store in the cleaning section . . . ask your wife ;)

also the nitrite stuff whats that?The cycle goes like this (simplified). . . fish excrete ammonia - "good" bacteria convert the ammonia to nitrIte - another "good" bacteria converts the nitrIte to nitrAte. . . . ammonia and nitrIte are very harmful to fish, nitrAtes are tolerated at low levels. NitrAtes are removed with daily water changes.

[RichardP]

Hey

i ended up gettiing an EHIEM 2217 and 2 sponge filters

Im getting the tank today.
The aquarium owner gave me these 2 bottles of bacteria and told me to add that after ive added the water and conditioner.
He said to pur both bottles in the check for ammonia
then i think it was every day tst the ammonia until it goes down to 0 i think and then check the nitrate.

could someone explain more about this to me?

cheers
Richard

[Carol_Roberts]

Most bottles of bacteria do nothing. There is a new one called BioSpira (or something like that) that many have had luck with. It is refrigerated and has an expiration date.

Ammonia has to be in the tank to feed the bacteria. What is your ammonia source? (dither fish or ammonia from the grocery store - it's not in the bottle of bacteria)

I would not try to cycle your new tank with discus. It can be done . . . .but you will have to do big daily water changes for several weeks or your discus will get sick.

Reread my thread about a fishless cycle and here are some more with information on cycling filters. Remember you cycle the filter - not the tank. ;)
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=7107
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=6357
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=934

[RichardP]

Hey Carol

Well i read all 3 of them links and learnt some new stuff.

so what does the bacteria in the fridge actually do?

should i just get ammonia and add it to the tank?
how much do i add and what do i do next?

cheers
Richard

[barron]

Hi

I second Carols advice and Richards.

The sponges I would use are Hydro V
and get the stackable kits for them.

John has the best prices. Check it out.

http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Hydro-Sponge_Filters/hydro-sponge_filters.html

And someone on Aquabid was selling the Aquaclear 500
new for about 25 dollars ea.

Two Ebo 250 watt heaters John has them also 3 for I think 16 and change ea.

Barron :)

[barron]

Richard

I answered your I.M. mess on the fishless cycle, check your mail.

Barron :)

[barron]

Richard

Check with John on the mark pre-filter. it is great, I use it about 6.00 dollars, I clean once a week does not stop filter flow. replacement sponges a couple of dollars they last a good while 6 months ea maybe. If you do not get squeeze happy.

I got the max III one, that sets up on a 90 degree elbow.

I used the homemade sponges and they stopped my filter even with daily cleaning. I also run a can.

Barron

[RichardP]

Hey,

Well my whole tank is set-up

im running my 6ft on a EHIEM 2217 atm but havent added the sponge filters just yet.

ammonia is at 5ppm and i added the 2 bottles of live bacteria.

just wanted to know if the media in my filter is bad such as the noodle things that are carbon i think and rocks?

cheers
Richard

[tony1313]

Hi Richard,
From what I understand from everything I heard and read carbon should not be used in you filteration system with discus! You may want to replace it with some other kind of media. The only time you would use carbon would be to clean meds out of the tank water.

HTH,
Tony

[Carol_Roberts]

White ceramic noodles are good, sponges are good.

Tony is correct - black carbon in the tank only if you are removing meds.

[lesley]

Hi Carol,

would be interested to know why you recommend not using carbon in a filter. I don't anyway - relying on what you have recommended, but just wondered why you would suggest carbon only if removing meds. Can see that it would remove meds, etc. but are you suggesting that it removes "good things"??

Thanks, Lesley

[ping]

Hi Lesley,

I found this at http://www.concerningpets.com/fishes/articles/fad03.htm

Now, to address a very controversial topic concerning the use of carbon in your filter. Some say that you should not use carbon because it will absorb trace elements from the water required by discus and can cause a condition known as "Hole in the Head Disease". Others believe that this disease is caused by a vitamin D deficiency and not by the use of carbon.

http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/freshref/discuswater2.html

[Editor's Note: Some discus fanciers believe that the use of carbon contributes to hole-in-the-head disease. While this is only a theory and is based on circumstantial evidence, it is something to keep in mind. This theory is nothing to panic about and may be purely discus-lore, but if you are struggling with HITH in a discus tank, try removing the carbon. Also note that this topic is banned from the discus-l mailing list because of the strong feelings and opinions that often result in sarcastic, cutting, and generally unrulely childish behavior!]

I do not use as i am too lazy to change the carbon. ;D

Ronny

[RichardP]

Well now what?...

If i turn off my filter and take out the carbon sponge will it interfere with my filter cycle?

what do i replace it with?

cheers
Richard

[tony1313]

Your filter will be fine. Just as Carol said pick up sponge inserts, ceramic or plastic spheres, any one of them will do. I'm sure you can get any of them where you bought your filter.

Cheers,
Tony

[Carol_Roberts]

Richard, what do you mean by carbon sponge? ???
Do you have a filter pad with carbon granules between two pieces of filter floss?

[Tristanyyz]

Eheim provides with their canisters a small carbon pad. The intention of this carbon pad is to filter any contaminates found in a new canister filter. As specified in the instructions, this carbon pad should be used once only during set-up for the first 2-3 weeks. Eheim does not encourage using carbon in their filtration systems past this initial set-up.

If this is the carbon u are talking about, thats your answer!

[Carol_Roberts]

Thanks Tristan :)

[AquaMan1]

Are you going to post any pictures?

[lesley]

Ping,

thank you for those excellent references, most interesting and I am glad to have my gut feelings confirmed.

Regards, Lesley

[RichardP]

Hey Guys,

Well my tank has been cycling for almost 2 weeks now and the ammonia has gone down to 0ppm and the nitrite has gone up to 5ppm.
Do i need to add more ammonia?

Also today i went out and bought Sera Peat. Do i need to add that now or wait till i do the 90% w/c after the filters cycled?
Finaly when i turned the filter back on it pumped out all this white flakey stuff, what is it and is it harmful to the water or fish?

Heres a pic of my tank
cheers
Richard

[crazy4discus]

nice looking tank you got there

[RichardP]

Hey,

thanks man, does anyone think my tank is too low? its holdng on building bricks (huge ones) and on top of the bricks is thick timber


cheers
Richard

[Carol_Roberts]

Your tank looks great for grow outs and easy to clean from any direction ;D

[knobby]

How big of a tank did this turn out to be? In gallons I mean...

Ifits as big as it looks then two 250watt heaters would not be enough in my opinion. I would get two 300watters atleast....and/or insulate the tank

5 watts per gallon is what I try go by for discus

two 250 watts may have an awfully hard time raising temp to 90-95 degrees if the need ever arises also

[RichardP]

Knobby: im not sure how many gallons it is but its a 74by24by24 , it is two 300 wtt heaters

[barron]

Hi Richard

That is 184.5 gallons l x w x d in inches div by 231 equals gallons.

I would run two 500 watt heaters.

Barron :)

[knobby]

oh wow..yes thats a big'un

going by the 5 watt per gallon rule.....you need 925 watts of heat

probly be doing yourself a favor by running three 300 watters or two 500s and getting yourself an external heater controller. I would also consider insulating the tank if were mine to conserve heat and $$

I know that two 300s will heat a tank that big...but are they able to get the temp up to 82-84 without running non-stop? Seems like alot of load and they would prematurely wear out....I dunno cuz Ive never had the good fortune of owning a tank that big.....

[RichardP]

Hey guys!

My filter is fully cycled (i think ???)
The ammonia is at 3ppm and the nitrite is at 0
but one the nitrite test kit it says it will show in 2 mins, in 2 mins it shows no sign of pink but when i leave it for awhile it turns pink then gets darker. Is this misjudged?

cheers
Richard

[Carol_Roberts]

I'm guessing your tank is NOT fully cycled. You should not be showing 3ppm ammonia. Do water changes to keep ammonia close to zero. Do you have a nitrAte test kit? When you start to show nitrAtes your tank is cycled