NATURE'S BEST CURE IN A BOTTLE -- TEA TREE OIL [Archive]

09-01-2003, 06:42 PM

I found a natural cure for ALL fish ailments (fungus, viral, bacterium and all). Has any one ever used Australian 100% Tea Tree Oil as a medicine for fish? I have! Excellent results. Better than any chemically-made, cost-absorbent medicines in the LFS! Take a chance and try it. You won't regret it. Use for only three days. Direct from the bottle, drop small drops into the aquarium (only to dilute the top surface of water). In moments, the solution will be completely diluted (because of the filter running (and this won't harm the filter)). All my aquatic inhabitants are doing well! Swimming freely. And believe in me, for those of you who have raised scaleless fish, they aren't easy to maintain due to their Ick infestations. My Discus are WELL, too. No worms in their ears (gills). I chose this only because what is good naturally to the animals is good for the human beings. And vis-a-versa. :)

Dave C

09-01-2003, 07:16 PM

I chose this only because what is good naturally to the animals is good for the human beings. And vis-a-versa.

That's scary logic.

Tea tree oil (aka melaleuca oil) has been the cause of many problems with parrots and other tropical birds. There are lots of things that are apparently good for humans but not so good for animals and vice versa. Heck there are things that are good for one type of fish but not another so the logic of using a product has to be better then that. Aloe vera is something that people seem to think will do wonders for their hands and then it ends up in a dechlor product. The company that puts it in there ignores the studies that says that aloe clogs the gills of fish and causes problems. I have used Melafix (same melaleuca oil) and have seen no effects on the fish, good or bad. It's supposed to be great for regrowing fins but I find I get the same results from clean fresh water changes.

discus_nw

09-01-2003, 08:28 PM

I have no idea on the effects on other animals, but I agree it has many uses in the discus tank. I perfer it to other chemical treatments as well as salt.

brewmaster15

09-01-2003, 09:18 PM

Hi Fry Girl,
I wasn't impressed by it when I used it. If it worked for you great, I know many have liked the results, but I think that your comment found a natural cure for ALL fish ailments (fungus, viral, bacterium and all). may be a little over enthusiastic.... I don't know of anything that does all that! :)

By the way.. what exactly did you use it to treat?

-al

Carol_Roberts

09-01-2003, 09:54 PM

I've tried it a couple of times and decided I wasted my money. Perhaps it works better in soft water? - mine is GH 12, ph 7.8

CARY_GLdiscus

09-02-2003, 12:43 AM

HYDE DAM IT! LOL! LOL! LOL!

09-02-2003, 10:02 AM

The Tea Tree Oil - Melaleuca Alternafolia (same substance found in a smaller form in Melafix) is a natural element found in many trees in Australia. I've used it in the capacity to aid in antifungal diseases, fly or flea repellent (excellent for this), stings or burns caused by rash and ringworm, etc. It was introduced to me by my grandma (May God Bless Her Soul; she left me in 7/2001). When I quoted: "what's good for the animals is good for human beings", we need to explore the natural elements to look for healing and curing fungal diseases that are wide spread more than ever today (most luxury liners are embedded with viruses, as you see in today's papers). If you compare the early 1900's to now, you will find that the elder men and women such as my grandma used natural elements to clean, disinfect and treat ailments for both animals and human beings. Aloe Vera (100% natural, that is) is excellent for cuts on contact (not for FISH). There is a liquid form of Aloe Vera, however, but it does not contain the 100% Aloe Vera because Aloe is a gel from the Aloe plant. Gels cause blockage in gills of fish!!! ;) I would not suggest using Aloe Vera for fish diseases.

I treated my Discus and Clown Loaches and Red Hooks with the Tea Tree oil. My Discus are back to swimming freely; they were swimming sluggishly and was darting. My Clown Loaches are freely swimming up and down in circles (like they used to do before they received the treatment). I had microbacteria in the water and didn't know it. I clean my 20-gal tank once a week; giving it a 70% water change. However, I've noticed that when I apply bacteria in the water (Cycle), I tend to have sick fishies! So now I stopped adding Cycle in all of my water changes. Very risky, right? But I was surprised to see that after using Tea Tree Oil (with NO Cycle), my fish are lively and not missing the Cycle!!! :-*

Afterall the Tea Tree Trees were made by God for a purpose. For birds, I don't own any but birds have certain trees that can cure their ailments. Of course, I bet one will be the Aloe Vera Tree!! :o Tropical Birds eat natural things anyhow. Most Tropical Birds are fruit- and nut-eaters. Most veggie pets escape ailments such as stomach viruses. Birds have a natural purge system (unless man force feeds their birds with meat). This is another thing I don't feed my fish meat. They eat seafood. Worms are too much for their little stomachs.

brewmaster15

09-02-2003, 10:10 AM

Hi Fry Girl,

Thats an interesting philosophy you have. Not sure I subscribe to a large amount of it but we all have our beliefs. :)

You mentioned you only feed seafood? what kinds? also you mentioned something about worms being too much for their little stomachs??? can you explain more why this is so?

I would think invertebrates like worms would be part of the natural diet of a fish like Discus, along with other invertebrates..

-al

Dave C

09-02-2003, 10:19 AM

I would agree that what is good for animals may also be good for humans and vice versa. The Aloe Vera example is one where something good for humans is not good for fish. I have yet to see anyone do a test with fish where they are divided into two groups and one group is treated with Melaleuca oil and the other with fresh water changes or other treatments. So it is not conclusive that Melaleuca oil does any more then other treatments, but some people have success using it, while others do not. I fall into the latter group.

Cycle is bottled bacteria. Or it was at one time, maybe when it was originally packaged. By the time it sits on the shelf for awhile and then gets to your house it is just dirty water in my opinion and useless. It's hardly an alternative treatment to Melafix. Just snakeskin oil and I doubt that more then 5% of the people on this forum (or any other forum populated with experienced aquarists) would ever use it, much less use it regularly. So I'd say there is 0 risk of ditching Cycle. This is a good example of how one can draw erroneous conclusions from their experiences. You attribute the increased vitality of your fish to the inclusion of Tea Tree oil while it could easily be that you stopped using Cycle... or something completely unrelated.

Tea Tree oil was made by God. It's purpose is not so easily determined though. It's also used to make Turpentine but I won't be adding that to my tank anytime soon. Opium was made by God as well but I find no need to use it. My reference to tropical birds was related to captive birds. Hobbyists were sold products that included Melaleuca oil to treat their birds and there were instances where all of the feathers fell out and the bird died. It was an example of using a treatment that works on humans can have negative effects on animals. I'm sure there are thousands of similar examples.

09-02-2003, 10:22 AM

Hi Brewmaster15:

"On top Of The Mountain"

I just happened to log out when I saw your posting! Oh, I feed them plenty of shrimps, flake foods and veggie pellets. This is sufficient for them. I need to invest in a larger tank for all (6 Discus, 13 Loaches and 1 Red Hook). This 20-gal is a bit crowded but it doesn't look like it is. They're happy. The tank's clean.

I would like to give them some bloodworms but I notice that the Discus gets gillworms when they're fed bloodworms. But now the Discus are fine. I think they miss the bloodworms, however. They are always hungry. Always looking for more food. I purchased the Discus from Mike Heppner. All of them survived their one day absence from the tank during the transport from West coast (for the exception of two caused by the East-coast blackout). Mike feeds his Discus bloodworms like many Discus owners. I guess I'm the odd-ball here. I broke the record. :o

brewmaster15

09-02-2003, 10:30 AM

6 Discus, 13 Loaches and 1 Red Hook). This 20-gal is a bit crowded but it doesn't look like it WOW that is a bit crowded!!!! :) You need a bigger tank asap.

Try Hikari Blood worms.

hth, al

I'd also scale back on the veggie pellets and increase their protein in the feed. Discus digestive tracts are short, for protein digestion... They are not efficient digestors of veggie matter. You may be filling them, but not with what they need to grow well. This may be why they seem so hungry.

09-02-2003, 10:36 AM

Hi, Dave C:

I should have carefully explained that I've stopped using Cycle way before using the Tea Tree Oil. ;) When I was changing my water (70% weekly), I did not remember to add the Cycle (Bacteria). I forgot. But what I did notice was that when I did apply it to the water, my fishies got sick, and the Tea Tree Oil cured the water and the fishies. :D No joke. It must be 100% Australian Tea Tree Oil. No substitute will do. Just like the Aloe Vera, it must be 100% in form otherwise the curing and healing of human skin lessions will not rapidly cure. Again, the Aloe Vera is not a natural remedy for fish. Gel and Gills are incompatible. :D

What man does with the natural elements found on this Planet is not the Will of God! Please remember this. Yes, turpentine is made with the same element of Tea Tree Oil but not 100% of it. Turpentine is in combo of other elements. Opium is also another herbal stimulant that is a natural healing element but as a drug it is combined with other man-made chemicals in order for it to be potent. Again, "What man does with the natural elements found on this Planet is not the Will of God!

Dave C

09-02-2003, 10:41 AM

Ok then, if it works for you that's great.

I'll bet that man keeping fish in a tiny glass cubicle is also not the will of God but that's best left to other forums.

09-02-2003, 10:46 AM

Hi BrewMaster15:

My Discus is always "pooping". I see little red pellets of food that I gave them. The Colorbits of Tetra. So I stopped giving them that. For now they are feeding on Freeze-dried krill for the extra protein. The flakes they adore are by Tetra. They like this alot. So not giving them the bloodworms is not missed, so long as I feed them about four or five times a day! Greedy little tykes they are (the Discus). I thought Clown Loaches were greedy. Gee I was wrong, totally! ::)

Yes, you're right. This 20-gallon has got to go. I'm gearing up for a larger one. But my dream tank is those huge tanks. I'm lining up on the Lotto Line. Dreaming to hit the jackpot and get my 15,000 gallon tank full of Discus and Loaches. ::) No, but really, I will get a 75 gallie. I think this will do for now. :o

wildthing

09-02-2003, 11:37 AM

ok..if God made the tea tree oil was/is 'he' an englishman?

what can it possibly be used for that cannot be done cheaper, cleaner & better with either Peat or Salt?

based on the philosophy that " if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck & quacks then it is probably a duck" then IMO melafix etc is maybe as useful as dish detergent...it looks like detergent , smells like it & froths up like it....beyond that I have never been able to attribute any other properties to it....oh yea...the conductivity shoots way up when you use that stuff......
once again,IMO, a clever product designed primarily to seperate the hobbyist from his $$$s.
change water , change water...Oh..& by the way......change water
:lol
jmho
:)

09-02-2003, 03:17 PM

To Wildthing ("WildThang"): ;D

Sorry to disappoint you, but I cannot come up with an answer to your gender questions concerning God. I don't think this is pertinent. ;D

I never heard of IMO. I did hear of peat and salt. I use them for my (tropical plants) gardening. 8)

Nothing wrong with using nature's best to cure a lil' Ick/lice and other antimicrobial diseases. Tea Tree Oil is a hand-up winner. :P * * * * :P * * * * :P

Dave C

09-02-2003, 03:40 PM

What temperature are you keeping your Discus in? Ich should never be an issue at normal Discus temps IMO.

09-02-2003, 04:04 PM

;) Hi Dave C:

My water temperatures are always kept between 80 and 82. Never less than 79. I use regular sink water. Dechlorinated. I've actually dropped about five drops of the Tea Tree Oil into the aquarium (in a 20-gal). They're still breathing. No gasping of air. ;) * * * * ;)

Dave C

09-02-2003, 05:08 PM

You might want to consider raising your temp to get it closer to 86ºF/30ºC. That's the normally recommended temp for Discus and afaik Ich cannot live for long at those temps. The other things that you are using the oil for could be solved if you put your fish into a more appropriate sized tank and changed water more frequently.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you allowed 7g of water per adult Discus, changed water more often, raised the temp to 86ºF you would have no need for Tea Tree oil as your fish would not have ich, fin rot or any of the problems that Tea Tree oil is commonly recommended as a cure for. That's one of the reasons I have little experience with the product. But if you do use it I hope you're not regularly adding it to your tank... you'd be better off addressing the cause of the problems that you're witnessing rather than adding something, hoping that it will cure the problem. If it does cure it then the problem should not recur. If it does recur then the product you're adding is not solving the problem, it's only delaying it. Find the source of the problem and you won't need to treat your fish.

09-02-2003, 11:06 PM

Thanks for the advice, Dave C. :) You may be correct. But I recall once that I did raise the water temperatures up to about 90. The Ick went away but the Discus had a hard time with oxygen. They seemed to be suffocating (and this was way before I even applied the Tea Tree Oil). So what I did was lowered it to 81o f. They're fine, if I don't go higher than 84 farenheit degrees. Ick is a funny microbial parasite that comes around after the feeding. I hate it. I will invest in a larger tank. I'm looking for a good quality tank (like Oceanic which is quite costly).

But, like I have said earlier, fish with thin-skin have a hard time with microbial diseases. If Malaleuca was not a needed commodity in the medicinal world, then it would not be an additive in many fish medications and in human-consumption medications. I think the Tea Tree Oil should be used in every household. Believe in me, this product is very useful. And, with more research and experiences with it, you can find it to be very (safe and) useful. ;)

lesley

09-03-2003, 07:33 AM

Hello Fry Girl,

I thought you might be interested to read the following link.I think you will find that "Tea Tree Oil" is quite a potent product. I would not like to be using it on a regular basis for myself or my animals. I hope you don't mind if I say that I feel it should be used only when necessary and if it is necessary on a regular basis, then something is not quite right and you need to find out why.

In my limited experience with Discus, I have found that if they have ample space and fresh water then medication is unnecessary.

The link is

http://www.meddent.uwa.edu.au/teatree/FAQ.htm

Regards, Lesley

09-03-2003, 09:03 AM

Hi, Lesley:

I use it in small (and moderate) proportions. I've explained earlier that 5 small drops from the Tea Tree Oil in a 20 gallon tank has illeviated the Ick infestation and quite possibly gill worms. I respect the natural elements found on this Planet. I use it in small, moderate numbers. Afterall, the Melaleuca alternifolia, as the scientific name of Tea Tree Oil, is used in many commercial household products and commercial medicinal products. You can find it in small portions but along with other synthetic chemical compounds.

I guess in the end it will be, too much of anything is no good for all of us. ;D Note: I've used it for about 4 days. No problems. And, I have about 20 fish in the tank!! No problems. :P

P.S. I'm looking for a moderately priced Oceanic Tank (90 or 100-gallon prefer). Take care. ;)

Paulio

09-03-2003, 09:59 AM

Salt is natural. Salt is cheap. Salt is very very very effective for several problems. I cant deal with the smell of "Mela-Fix" Makes your fish room smell like a cough a drop.

Paul

brewmaster15

09-03-2003, 10:31 AM

Hi Lesley!
That was a very informative link on teatree oil. Thank you very much... I bookmarked it!

-al

Steve_Warner

09-04-2003, 01:43 AM

Hi all,
Interesting discussion! Here's an informative link too.

http://www.herbmed.org/Herbs/Herb105.htm#Category7Herb105

Look at #11 under "Formulas/Blends-Contemporary Formulas" heading.

Steve

09-08-2003, 10:16 PM

Hi Steve Warner:

Thanks for posting your link. I hear of many and read many articles concerning medicating Discus and other tropical fish. I got fed up at always ending up in my local fish store and getting everything everyone told me is good for aiding ailing fish (especially for my Discus and Loaches)! So what I did was recalled all the stuff I used when I was younger. Then I went to the library and sort the details out and realized that some of the medications I was using contained Melaleuca Alternifolia (Tea Tree Oil in Melafix). And there is another medication that contains a green chloride mixture -- this too has a natural element (I forgot the name of it, at this moment).

In essence, I'm new to aquatic rearing world and I was delighted to FINALLY find a solution to aiding sick fishies. It's been now about three weeks and all is well. THEY HAVE NO GILL WORMS AND NO ITCHIES.

I read your link concerning Tea Tree Oil. Did you read my posting concerning the quantity of use? You have to use it in moderation and in small amounts (since it is potent). If anything consumes a natural herbal plant (such as the marijuana or the poppy plant (opium), of course it will suffer a convulsion. :-[

Have a good Discus-dancing evening!! :D ... :D ... :D

Shari

09-23-2003, 01:13 AM

One thing I have to agree with is when I've used Melifix especially if I get a new fish with some small fin problem, or someone is a bit clumsy and scratches themself the Melifix seems to aid in an almost startling rapid cure - I had a Discus several mos. ago develope a large cyst like 'thing' on her side down toward the tail area and this stuff had her healed back to normal in about 3-4 days using once a day per instructions on bottle (buy the condensed gallon bottles thru Fosters/Smith - 1 teaspoon does 50 gallons so lasts forever)

On the issue of bacteria additives...I also noticed my Discus acted a bit 'funny' after adding somthing....starting checking the water parems before and after...seems it usually upped the nitrate levels, like if I had 0 before I would have 10 an hour later...I still use after certain meds, but watch the nitrates.
;)

09-25-2003, 08:10 PM

Hi, Shari:

Yes, you're right. I think if any medication is added to a fish tank, the nitrate count rises. That's why one must do a water change after medication is done. After my fish received about three days (four the max) of the TTO, I do the 85% WC (water-change) and only add the dechlorinated Stress Coat and two tbls. of salt. Those guys are doing well! I used to lose my catfish a lot, but now I hardly lose any. Apparently, I must be doing something awfully right if my 20-fish in a 20-gallon tank is still going and going and growing strong. :) ;) :)

I know many aquarists in this forum are chewing at their knuckles because I have a 20 to 20 tank. Sorry, I just haven't found the right aquarium to house my fishies. ;) ;) ;)

Take care.
**Angie**

outlawpc

01-09-2004, 05:55 PM

. . . hmmmm..... God & Melafix. . . verrrrry interesting :-)

Wahter

02-25-2004, 10:57 PM

Found this about the Tea Tree Oil:

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/care3.htm#TEA%20TREE%20OIL,%20Melaleuca

I have some friends that tell me Dr. Willard's water fixes all sorts of problems too:
http://www.dr-willardswater.com/

Anyway, I'm not saying the Tea Tree Oil doesn't work on some problems, but I'd be skeptical about it working on everything. BTW, I do know that some people intentionally do put dead leaves in their discus tanks.

02-27-2004, 11:39 PM

Hello Walter & Outlawpc:

Thanks for posting the link walter, I saw this before and knew about the toxicity of TTO. That is why in small dosages it's considered not as harmful as high (and larger) dosages. Don't get me wrong, it can cause serious allergic reactions at any strength. It's up to the individual to recognize how much of it is considered safe.

I just recently used it on a 75-gallon tank with a sick Wild Brown who wasn't swimming and laid flat on the tank floor. Here is what I've done on Wednesday evening:

Added two capfuls of the 100% TTO. Have extra aeration for dispense of oxygen. Increase heat to about 86 degrees.

The next morning the Wild Brown that was on the floor is now swimming. Excreting white gellatinous stool. Feeling so much better and is now eating. I've changed cartridge (Emperor 400). That's all I did.

I don't need to do it again since the TTO is concentrated and has removed bacteria from tank and quite possibly (as it appeared) removed it from the fish's stomach. --Angie--

jules

02-28-2004, 11:06 PM

Now Fry Girl don't you go drinking that stuff. ;)

Doesn't the white mucousy feces indicate Hex is still present?

02-29-2004, 01:11 AM

Hi Jules:

I have noticed that the TTO heals the outer area of the discus as well as flush them (intestinally). I did see some of them excrete white gellatinous stool. If they're being excreted, I would think that's a good thing. :thumbsup:

Actually for hexamita, I used mostly the Epsom salt like most folks here. I increase the temps to about 86-88, with extra aeration (of course). This too helps the excretion of white gellatinous stool.

The TTO sterilizes the tank as well.

I don't add much and I don't do it often. Perhaps this is why I haven't had a death occurred in my stock. I don't know for sure. But I never used any other item (other than clout for the first time when I read about Hex and HTH). I used Clout the other day, but had it removed with my filter. Thought I had a problem with a new stock. But all is so far well. --Angie--

brew1

02-29-2004, 03:01 AM

Wow,

I've used Melafix for frayed fins and lacerations but I never thought of using it as a cure all product. It certainly isn't marketed as such.

I think I'll hold off on tossing out the meds and replacing them with Melafix.

BTW Angie, I was wondering how you and God feel about man altering the natural resources that produce the energy to power the heater and filter that keeps your Discus alive.

Thanks,

brewmaster15

02-29-2004, 03:24 AM

HI Angie,

The next morning the Wild Brown that was on the floor is now swimming. Excreting white gellatinous stool. Feeling so much better and is now eating Becareful,
thats a sign of serious internal pathogen... most likely worms ... Your teaoil and epsom will not cure that and it can easily spread to your other fish.

-al

Nightowl

02-29-2004, 06:13 AM

Would that be "hex" or something else?(the white gel. stool)..saw one of those in my big tank 2 weeks ago. I always thought when fish had hex , little came out of them, and the white could be sign of internal infection....is it secondary infection???????????????????????????????????? jt

02-29-2004, 09:19 AM

The next morning the Wild Brown that was on the floor is now swimming. Excreting white gellatinous stool. Feeling so much better and is now eating

HI Angie,

Becareful,
thats a sign of serious internal pathogen... most likely worms ... Your teaoil and epsom will not cure that and it can easily spread to your other fish.

-al

Thanks Al. But I paid close attention to the excretion. It came out from the usual location. Then there were no more. Only dark feces of the usual.

Remember what TTO actually does. Externally it will kill (topical) parasites. The outer layer. It will actually take off the slime coat. It does like what Alcohol does to the human skin. It dries it completely to dissinfect and kill germs. --Angie--

P.S. Nightowl: You would have to watch where the slimy worm comes from, too. The floating thin slimy worm substance may have not come from the intestinal area (when using TTO or not). Discus does shed, at times, both their scales and slimecoat. But I read that if the Discus lose too much scales, that this symptom can be a sign of Tuberculosis (TB). Then this is a serious dilema for the caregiver. --Angie--

Carol_Roberts

02-29-2004, 12:28 PM

Discus only have one vent to excrete from - be it dark feces, worms, or a gelatinous pus-like glob. More likely it was your fish's own immune system fighting the internal infection.

Your tea tree oil is a mild external anitbacterial - like Neosporin for people. Just because I rubbed Neosporin on a cut and my cold went away doesn't mean Neosporin cures colds.

Many new fish keepers don't know what the different medications are or how they work. Encouraging new discus owners to treat fish sick with internal viral or bacterial infections with Melafix and tee tree oil in not a good idea in my opinion.

Wahter

02-29-2004, 09:20 PM

Actually for hexamita, I used mostly the Epsom salt like most folks here. I increase the temps to about 86-88, with extra aeration (of course). This too helps the excretion of white gellatinous stool.

Angie, I think most people here use Epsom salts to treat discus which are either bloated or have some sort of constipation problem, whereas they typically use metronidazole (in conjunction with higher temperatures) to treat fish for hexamita (intestinal flagellates).

02-29-2004, 11:21 PM

Hello Carol,

I'm only seeking other options of healing the discus that we all love. By expressing an inquiry as well as my experiences with TTO, I can get feedback of all sorts. I don't mind those who are opposed to it. Medications are very expensive for pets as well as for human consumption.

Also, the one important thing about how discus find remedies for their ailments should be looked into further.

In the rivers (which are swampy at most times filled with sediments of tree and orchid roots, dirt, pebbles), one will not find Clout, Hexamita medications, Hole-in-The-Head medications at all. Surprisingly enough, a lot of folks get the impression that the wild amazon rivers are purely clean. Not true.

I'm still learning and I've learned a little of everything helps for the moment.

--Angie--

breezygrove

03-01-2004, 03:15 AM

Angie,

A white gelatinous glob may indicate a few things, in our case it was capillaria. Looking at the white excrement under a microscope, we were able to actually see the capillaria eggs. Tee tree oil or Epsom salt would not fix this problem.

Tee tree oil is not found in the rivers of the Amazon. You are correct when you say that the rivers are not purely clean. In the wild, when fish get really sick, they die. That’s just nature’s way of taking care of things. Fortunately, for our fish, we are able to diagnose and treat them before their condition leads to death.

We would have to agree with Carol in that encouraging new discus owners to use tee tree oil, for internal parasites or viral infections, is NOT a good idea. Because we keep our discus in tanks (a non-natural environment,) unnatural means of keeping them healthy are required (i.e. store bought medications.)

Also, in our opinion, medications or treatments should not be unnecessarily added to the water with each change. Medication (including tee tree oil) should only be used when treating a sick fish, and only then if there is not a better medication available. Adding Cycle should not be necessary once the nitrifying bacteria have been established in your tank.

If you would really like to know the results of the tee tree oil treatment, we recommend that you have the white stuff, and any feces, examined under a microscope. A good diagnosis is pertinent in selecting the appropriate medication.

Discus keeping IS an expensive hobby. One should be prepared to medicate the discus’s illness with the appropriate medication.

Sameer and Shea

brewmaster15

03-01-2004, 10:00 AM

Hi Angie,

In the rivers (which are swampy at most times filled with sediments of tree and orchid roots, dirt, pebbles), one will not find Clout, Hexamita medications, Hole-in-The-Head medications at all. Surprisingly enough, a lot of folks get the impression that the wild amazon rivers are purely clean. Not true.

I agree that in the wild there are not medications but one thing that you must realise is The volume of water to fish and parasite is much greater in the wilds than in a tank...In a nut shell the chances for a parasite to even meet a suitable host is far greater in a fish tank then in the wild. Additionally Nature has a mechanism that cures most ill fish rapidly...Its one we don't use in our tanks.. Its called a predator. In the wild these tend to hunt the weakened fish. Medication isn't required. :)

That fish that you saw pass odd colored feces will do so again... and everytime it does it has the potential to pass on the worms or other parasites to the other fish. Hypothetical here for you.. if this is capillaria... a very likelyworm ... the eggs are passed in the feces.. these are then ingested by other discus. Capillaria is a worm thats mode of transmission makes it perfect for infecting all discus ina tank.. discus like to feed off the bottom,,, as they blow those flakes off the bottom...the barrel shaped eggs of capillaria get ingested. The effects of this infection may not be obvious for months..

Just want you to understand the biology of what you are dealing with.

take care,
al

03-01-2004, 01:07 PM

Al, thanks for the information. You too Breezygroove! I understand thoroughly what the confusion is.

You see, with TTO the oil kills larvae. Thus making the white substance harmless (whether it's slime coat or white wormies).

In comparing predators -- making discus their diet/meals -- my tank has not been missing their resident since the blackout of 2003 in August.

I guess where I am getting at is that I hear of many folks on this forum losing fish. Everytime I hear the story I start to panic a little because I too have doubts about what I'm doing. But as I stay to the maintainence and procedures I do for my fish, I can't help but notice that my fish are still alive!!

I'm not bragging. I'm only trying to relay a possibility that is real to me because I do it.

For the mere fact that those medications aren't found in the rivers and neither is the TTO, there are plants (orchid roots, tree roots) that contains some natural herbal oils in them that these discus consumes. I notice my discus made my plants looked as if I never cared for my plants. This is when I first began keeping discus (with plants). They are mostly herbivores.

With TTO (which is a plant derivative from the bark and root of trees found only in Australia), a small dosage of it works like a laxative but also impairs the germs found in one's body (both human and fish); it knocks out viral infection (this is in medicines for herpes/STD meds).

I am not against what any of you fine folks doing. No, don't get me wrong. I'm not. I'm only sharing you my experiences. Truly. All IMHE (in my honest experiences). I never was into keeping tank so there is a lot to learn from my seat. And I continue to learn. But check out what I am getting at. Those eggs of the white worms will die and be smoothered by the coating of the TTO. I don't know if that is a safe method. But again like I've said, it works for me.

--Angie--

P.S. Fish dies from parasites (diseases) and predator alike. But those that remain alive are kept for many years in the wild. The waters are not always changed as more and more rivers are salvagely abused and dumped with toxins.

Wahter

03-01-2004, 03:07 PM

I notice my discus made my plants looked as if I never cared for my plants. This is when I first began keeping discus (with plants). They are mostly herbivores.

Discus are mostly herbivores? That's news to me; I might as well throw out all the bloodworms, beefheart, brineshrimp, mysis shrimp, etc... and stick with spirulina flakes.

:-X :-X :-X

(yes, I've had some discus which have nibbled two species of plants, water wisteria (hygrophila difformis) and water sprite (ceratopteris sp.) but they left other plants alone)

Angie, I think everyone agrees that in keeping discus, what works for some people won't work for others. So keep that in mind when you post; else it may cost some one some nice discus. For instance, did you have the white feces examined for dead parasites?

Again, many people look on this board for accurate information, especially in this medications/ sickness section. So please make sure your posts (ie. epsom salts for treating hexamita, washing filter sponges out in dishwashing soap, ammonia chips breaking nitrates into nitrite, etc...) are correct or at least say, "this works for me, it might not for you". ;D

03-01-2004, 09:39 PM

Hi, Walter:

It's understandable. Sorry if I caused any confusions and got my ammonia mixed up (nitrite vs. nitrate).

My next motive will be just that as you said -- to get the white thread specimen analyzed.

Sorry all. Didn't mean to break the champagne cork prematurely.

--Angie--

joelfish

03-02-2004, 01:07 AM

Angie,

thanks for listening to the wisdom that is here. :)

The methods (water changes) that Al, DaveC and others are suggesting are very natural if you think about it.

I wish the best to you and your fish!

Joel

yippy

03-02-2004, 08:48 AM

03-02-2004, 12:57 PM

Call me mad - but i have an allergy at the moment and the itch was driving me bonkers so in desperation i dabbed melafix on me and relieved the itch immediately. Now Im a fish - I fill the bath tub up, add the melafix and gone !!!!

Its even like aromathery - relieved the tension. I tried everything, cortizone, you name it - melafix was the and is the only thing relieving my itch !!!!!

A friend of mine uses it on her dog for heat rash etc. ;D

GREAT STUFF FOR ALL :)

fishy Kerry ::)

:wave:

;D;D;D Thanks, there Kerry! You made my day! haaa...haaaa... Maybe now I should just reopen that champagne bottle, now that your hands aren't itching anymore, and it can be a sign of you hitting the lottery now? Care to share some champagne with me Yippy Kerry? :lickin: LOL

Kerry, Just don't overdo it. It acts as a reverse once the itching stops, meaning it can make you itch. Lubricate those hands now with Petroleum jelly first then go back to your routine hand/body creams. :thumbsup:

Thanks folks for all your input. I will be updating this post based on my studies of the TTO and the effects upon using it on fish.

Cheers! :sun:

**Angie**

P.S.: Hey Joelfish, I don't ignore words of wisdom. I only put them in the backburner and when I need them, I recall it up on the computer then I either incorporate it with my silly words of wisdom or replace them and presto... we have a joint communion of understanding and agreement. Or, the reverse effect. ;) Either way, it's all good for a day on the forum. :sun: **Angie**

M0oN

03-02-2004, 01:42 PM

Just to let you know, I've used MelaFix with great success in healing abrasions and tattered fins, but have never seen any beneficial results on bacterial infections etc.

Just like in humans, internal infections require antibiotics and having your immune system just fight it out (usually doesn't happen with fish) and I'd imagine certain bacterial infections of open wounds would need somthing a little more potent then MelaFix...

It is a great stress reducer and probably does help to prevent secondary bacterial infection, but I wouldn't call it a miracle medication...

yippy

03-02-2004, 04:11 PM

I havent had any problems with the itching coming back - I dont use it everyday - only if I feel an itch coming on. I really think mine is minor, I wouldnt recommened it for people with bad problems like dermatitis or excema - as i havent had those problems, but it fixes my little itch and has healed a couple of sores from scratching. The cortisone cream actually made it worse, so I tried the melafix. Alot of chemicals annoy me, I cant drink wooded wines as they contain sulphur so any drinkies for me have to be unwooded as Im allergic to it.

The council here has added extra aluminium sulphate to the water supply, so maybe thats the cause of my itch - might have to shower under my RO water contraption i use on the fish - lol - might grow gills soon :o

Kerry ;D

That champagne unwooded Angie ?????? :D

03-03-2004, 09:28 AM

liz

03-03-2004, 05:55 PM

I use Melafix if any of my fish have fin rot or any wounds.I find it works well.I also use Tea Tree Oil Shampoo on my dogs also very good.

Wahter

03-29-2004, 05:43 PM

Here's a website which did some studies on using Melafix; they found that "Melafix is promoted to have antibacterial properties but our research has shown this is not the case.". However, for gashes, wounds, sores, etc... Melafix was the best waterborne treatment.

The webpage (Dr. Eric Johnson's http://www.koivet.com site):

http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=104&category=13&na me=Medications

The site also covers some other medications for fish (specifically koi), such as praziquantel, potassium permanganate, levamisole, etc.... interesting reading.