Help!! starting 58 planted tank

[OEG]

I just wanted to see if anyone could give me some advice with my first planted tank, i need to know what equiptment i need for it.
1. What kind of substrate
2. Do i need heater coils
3. Do i need a Co2 sytem and if so which one.
4. Do i use a trickle filter.(tank is bottom drilles with intake and return/overflow box in the corner).
5. What lighting system( i have a vho sytem i used to have on a reef tank with 4 95watt bulbs in it two actinic two whites)

I would really appreciate your help. i dont want to go waste money on things that i dont need. I have done that before and looked back and said dumb Axxxx.
Oscar

[Debbie]

I use lateralite 1/2 inch to 1 inch and 2 to 3 inches of gravel. Has worked well.
From what I hear about heater coils they promote root growth but not leaf growth so you can end up with alot of root and not much leaf. I can't say from personal experience but I have heard more than one person say it.
I don't use CO2 but I have easy to grow plants. There are some plants that really need it. So I would say it depends on what plants you want to keep. You can try with out and if plants don't grow well then you could get CO2 later. It will also help lower pH if that is an issue.
I can't comment on the trickle filter (I will contemplate it though). Phil set one up and a few others use one for their planted discus tanks. How is it working out for others?
I think that is too much light and you may have algse problems. 2 to 3 watts per gallon is good.

[ChloroPhil]

OEG,

I'll be happy to answer your post, but it's a little late tonight and it will be long. :) I'll start by directing you towards the Answer to Algae questions, Planted Discus Tank links, and Plants for the Discus aquarium posts.

The Algae one is a primer on control of algae through proper fertilization.

Planted Discus tanks (particularly George Booth's site) links to a lot of informative sites from Those Who Have Gone Before, and then the Plants for the Discus aquarium thread is a good list of hearty plants for discus.

Quick answers:
No more than 2.5 watts/gallon of PC FLuorescent or VHO 5300-6700K spectrum
-OR-
1x 125w MH for every two foot section of a tank 20" deep or deeper.

Don't worry about substrate cables.

Substrate: Nice dark round gravel with a Laterite base. Flourite if you've got $$$

CO2? YES!

Trickle filter if you've got one already or if you've got a big tank.

[OEG]

Thanks for the help,
Bio that was not very long at all short and to the point, nicely done. Im going to get started then, ill pull out two bulbs from that hood and leave one actenic and one white, if you think this is not a good idea please let me know. Any additional help is welcomed.
Oscar

[ChloroPhil]

Oscar,

I haven't yet begun to get into setting up your tank..:) Oh, don't use the Actinic. A regular bulb with a good balance of R,G,B specra in the 5300-6700K rating range is perfect.

[Abercrombie6202]

I used flourite mixed with pea gravel

I use CO2, but only a little bit at the moment as my tank is low-light plants, to make sure discus don't get stressed at the moment. But soon i will have a lot of lighting and more CO2, if you have the money buy a co2 injector and the compact lighting. A high-light aquarium is a minimum of 3.0 WPG (watts per gallon). But then not all plants require a lot of lighting and some actually die from that strong of lighting!! So i would set up aquairum with rocks, driftwood decorations and flourite or laterite (i like flourite) with gravel, I prefer pea gravel. and do some research for what plants you want then buy the lighting and co2 if needed and then get the plants!! I don't nkow if it's better to wait for the tank to be cycled or not, but my tank was cycled before plants were entered.

Good Luck to you, your going to need it, just kidding, LOL, Are you putting discus in the tank?

[OEG]

Aber, Yes im going to put some discus in it and also some of those spotted angels from Alberto. What other kind of other fish do you recommend i use. What about an algae control unit, what should it consist of.
Oscar

[ChloroPhil]

Oscar,

I wouldn't recommend mixing Angels and Discus. While I'm sure they're both clean, considering who the fish are from, the Angels are much more active feeders and will tend to scare the discus away at feeding time. I've seen it too many times at the tanks where I work, the angels will get all the food while the discus just fade away.

Also, a planted 58 isn't going to have as much room as you might think. A few full grown discus are going to dominate that tank size wise.

A few things to think about,
Phil

[Sketchy]

...I'm gonna add my two cents worth here. Regarding a substrate, I would use a fluorite/gravel/sand mix. Make sure that the gravel is of a smaller size though. Many plants take root in the smaller gravel better. Laterite breaks down and needs to be replaced. It also leaches into your water column so fluorite is the better option.
...regarding lighting, Walmart sells a Chroma 50 bulb for about $6 that is 90 CRI and 5000k. Simulates full noonday summer sun and is great for plants.
...CO2 can be done with 2 two liter DIY contraptions in a 58g.
A bottle of Red Star yeast is $5.99, generic gelatin is 3/$1.00
and store brand sugar is $1.69 for 5 lbs. Cheap and effective.
The bottles last for about two weeks. Recipes for it are in the forums at Plantgeek.net

[OEG]

Thanks for your help i reall appreciate all the input, Phil does this mean i need to set up two tanks instead of one ;D One for discus and one for the angels im getting. ::)
Ive seen whold co2 kits advertised like at foster and smith is that a good way to go, i appreciate the help with the home mades system but at this point in time i want ease, i have 25 discus tanks i have to maintain on a daily basis so i dont have much time to screw around with yeast and stuff, but i really do appreciate the help. Who do you all suggest i get plants from and what other fish can i add to this tank that wont be a big hassle for me.
Oscar

[Debbie]

I keep discus and angels together and have not had a problem. Store tanks can be crowded and there is more competition for food. Also the fish have more stress in a store which burns more energy. In the home aquarium I find discus and angels to be pretty equal in feeding habits. Both go after the food as soon as it hits the water and continue to browse for a long time after.
Also lateralite and floralite are the same thing but floralite is baked and won't break down like lateralite will. Floralite is also more expensive. If you put the lateralite on the bottom of the tank and cover with gravel it won't end up in the water column and it won't need to be replaced.

[Abercrombie6202]

i'd say go get the co2 injector from foster and smith if you can buy it!

Fish to go with discus, angelfish, cardinals, hacthets, cories, but be CAREFUL!!!!

Make sure they are quarintined, don't want your discus to do, because of a dollar fish!!

[OEG]

Debbie and Ambercrombie, you have both given me really good advice and i really apreciate it, debbie sounds like youve really got this down, what if i just use all flourite instead of mixing medias?
Oscar

[Debbie]

I think that would be ok but I have never tried that. The main reason I put gravel over the lateralite is so that it wouldn't end up in the water column. It would be expensive, and you need a deeper substrate if you want your plants to grow well, I do 3 inches.
Has anyone used a total flourite substrate?

[RAWesolowski]

Fluorite is $14.99 a bag (20#, probably less at www.drsfostersmith.com). Less expensive to use it as a substrate then overlay with sand and gravel.

Color choice is red (umber?) so if you want a black or lighter color, you need to use it as a substrate. I would recommend Eco-complete as a top layer. I have had good success and I like the black color.

[ChloroPhil]

Oscar,

Flourite is similar in concept, but different than Laterite.

Laterite is an iron rich soil created when acidic water has eroded all but the iron bearing minerals in rock. This creates a very crumply iron rich clay material which eventually falls apart in an aquarium due to root action and aquarists constantly sticking his or her hands in the gravel. :) Laterite is meant to be used in the very bottom layer of the gravel. It will cloud the water if not kept under something.

Flourite is a clay-based sedimentary rock mined out of Stone Mountain, Georgia (USA). It's then baked and crushed and will not fall apart in water. It does best when used as the only substrate, although it still works well when mixed up to 50/50 with something else. I use it as my only substrate in most of my tanks and it works VERY well. Like Bob said though, it is pretty expensive, but is the only substrate you'll need.

Best,
Phil

[OEG]

Phil and everyone else, thank you so very much for the help with this new project of mine. i am going to use 100% flourite with a top layer of ecocomplete on top for the visual. Thanks once again and ill keep you posted.
Oscar ;D

[ChloroPhil]

Oscar!

If you're going to use Flourite then just cap it off with plain black gravel. There's no need to spend the $$$ on Eco-Complete. It's just black gravel in a nutrient liquid.