No, the first one to go...

[Abercrombie6202]

While i was in school my om saw that one has died already. But it had mucus spots everywhere and was very dark, she told me. None of the other fish were as far as that lil guy, but i'm sure they will develop soon, so i need to get that disease gone and NOW!!! I only have 4 discus left, if i lose anymore by the time then there won't be enough disucs and i'll have to get more, but they'll be quarantined for 6 weeks. Will they be okay if anymore die? It seems that ther discus are getting a little bit better. How do i know When the disease is gone?

[Ryan]

Adam,

First we need to figure out what happened. Tell us more about your fish. How long have you had them, what were you feeding them, what are your water change routines? Tell us about your pH and how you age your water before water changes. Do you treat it for chlorine/chloramine and aerate it/heat it? How have the other fish acted. What was different about the fish that died as far as his behavior and eating habits go? Let us know some more information so we can try and help you out.

Ryan

[Keith.L]

Adam,

Sorry to hear one of your discus died. I understand from your other thread that you got them fairly recently (2-3 weeks ago) from Cary and your setup is a planted tank. Any chance you can setup a bare bottom tank and move your remaining four there for treatment?

Since you don't know what's wrong, I doubt you can do much for now except for raising water temp (30C+) and to add salt. I'm not sure adjusting pH is such a good idea for young discus. Let us know what's going on. Good luck.

-Keith 031003

[mench]

Keith,he DID NOT get them from Cary,He got them from me.And just in case anyone says anything,they were in great shape when he took them.Adam has been talking to me about getting discus for a while now..I told him I would hook him up with some "trial" fish only after he read everything on the boards about keeping discus and he felt he was ready to raise them.
I got him 5 fish for his first try,the cost I won't put here,but it was less than the cost of a dinner at Micky D's for the family...not much.
The one that died was a runt that I gave him just so he had a group to start with,the runt was about 18 months old and the others were in the 2.5 to 3.5 " range and all eating fine.
I have never seem Adams set up,so I don't know what else he has in with them or how the tanks look or what his water is like...We have heard on his posts that he is using the same hoses and nets for all his tanks...he keeps other types of fish...don't know if his discus caught something from the other tanks or not....Telling him about not using the same nets etc,etc on all his tanks must have slipped my mind,I never thought of that because I only keep discus.
Hopefully Adam will weather this minor set back and learn from this experience and be a better discus keeper.and not to worry,there are a lot of discus in this area for him to choose from. He seems like he wants to learn and I think he will turn out ok.... 8)

Mench

[Keith.L]

Oops. Sorry for the confusion. I stand corrected. :-X

[Abercrombie6202]

all the other 4 discus are doing okay for now, none were in as bad shape as the runt. I'm treating with 1 50% waterchange daily (aged water, declorinated) and adding 1 Tablespoon of salt/per 5 gallons. The fish that are with my discus are 1 botia, 1 SAE, 1 cory, and 1 ghost shrimp. I also have a 20 gallon BB tank that has a angelfish and a parrotfish. A 10 gallon community with 2 paradise fish, female betta, 2 baby swordatils and 2 baby guppies. A 2.5 gallon with 2 male bettas. I didn't think that disease could spread from other fish to discus, but none of my other fish are sick at the moment, except for my disucs tank. I have my mom feeding my angelfish so it won't catch the disease my discus have at the moment. MY tank is fairly clean i think, i vacuum the gravel with every water change i do and not much debri comes up, so i'm thinking that not too much wastes collects in the gravel. I don't know why my one discus caught the disease way before all the others. I know my temperature went down to 79 degrees on monday, but could that cause a sudden disease and death? I've had the discus for 3 weeks now

[Paulio]

Adam,

In a system that has been going a while any change can bring dormant nasties around. Change in temp, water parameters, frequency of water changes all play a role. I know it isnt a pleasant idea but I would think about going bare bottom until you have a little more time keeping Discus to your credit. Dont get discouraged. We all have gone through bouts of problems. Its all part of the hobby. Thank goodness you have this board to help you through this stuff. I can only imagine how many people left the hobby early because such a resource wasnt there for them. Hang in there Adam! It all adds to your experience.

Paul

[Rick_May]

Adam,
79 isn't cold enough to cause problems, unless the fish already was sick. What your doing with 50%WC and salt is the best first action. Keep us informed

[Abercrombie6202]

i think i have many different diseases going no in the tank at once!! My first discus died with white stuff covering his body. Now i have another disucs with little white patches on his skin all over and another discus with no white pacthes but floating sideways on teh surface!! The other 2 discus are acting normal for now...

[breed_beyond]

What's you water parems looking like? Ph amm, nit etc. Are they all good? And I agree lose the gravel it traps so many nasties.

[Abercrombie6202]

ph= between 7.4 and 7.6
ammonia-0
nitrite-0
nitrate- not high

[mench]

Adam it sounds like they got a bacterial infection from somewhere,could be from your other fish tanks,I wouldn't worry about your other fish catching anything from your discus,it usually is the other way around.
If it were me I would set up a 10 gal hospital tank and move the discus into it with just a heater and sponge filter...keep the heat at 88 or 90 deg.use salt or some Metro mixed in with the food and use their OWN net ans hose for water changes. This is what I would do if there were mine,but you can do what ever you think is best.

Mench

[Abercrombie6202]

Yeah i'm going to buy a new net and a different hose now.

Then there were 3... I just found another one dead looked like it had swim blatter disease

[AndyL]

Define "looked like it had swim bladder disease" - what did it look like? Swim bladder disease doesn't have any real outward signs at the time of death (other than the fish's swimming attitude which would obviously be gone at death)

I warned you even before you came over here to SimplyDiscus, the planted tank was going to be a source of grief. Loose the majority of the gravel, keep a few potted plants if you want, when you remove the gravel you'll see just how much is trapped in the gravel. You'll be amazed.

Andy

[Abercrombie6202]

It was flaoting upsidedown and swidmming sideways etc...
I move my grvael aorund during every water change so all the waste comes up nito the water then gets stucked up and out of the tank. Usually nothing much comes up i keep my tank pretty clean!

[breed_beyond]

It doesn't matter how "clean" you think your water is that gravel is not good. I suggest you take care of the discus you have and do another couple of monthes reading reading and more reading about discus before you get anymore. The gravel may look clean in appearance but it harbors all kinds of bad bacteria.

[Abercrombie6202]

Why would you think i ahev to read for a couple more months?I know pretty everything to keep discus. The only thigns i'm not 100% sure on are disease and breeding, Keeping discus in a planted tank has been done before. And it's not my water quality that caused the disease which pretty much everyone assumes. it was transfered maybe because i used the same hose, nets, etc.. with my other tanks. I don't think it would take 2 /12 weeks of bad water quality to casue a sickness, i think it would take more like a couple days, with that in mind my water quality is just fine. I do 50% water changes every day or every other day. My tank, tap, and storage water are all the same ph. My storage water is a little degrees off. But i don't think 2 degrees will kill any fish as my temperture is usally aroudn 87 or 88
which jsut makes it go down to 84ish which is fine for a discus tank. To sum everything up i think i know ENOUGH about discus that i don't have to do MORE MONTHS OF RESEARCH to get discus. You could jsut say get a BB tank or something, but I'm on simply all the time asking questions. I've been here for 2 months researching!

[AndyL]

I'm gonna paste a link here... Back when you first started thinking about discus, when you were first refered here...

http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/showthread.php?s=f2513aecc2663163f16f16247c295951& threadid=9930&highlight=discus

If you want, I could find all the posts when you first came here, and point out the number of times it was recommended that you don't try planted tank for your first discus...

How many times were you advised that you should be using a bare bottom tank? It is possible to keep discus in a planted tank, but its not adviseable; its really something to be left to those with LOTS of discus experience. And even then, most wouldn't grow out the discus in a planted tank.

I started out with less than 1/8" of gravel in my discus tank because I hated the look of barebottom... After a month, I realized how much 'crud' was still trapped in there. You've got 2" or better. Its not as clean as you think. If you don't believe me, put your hand in the tank, scoop up some gravel, get right down to the glass, then dump it mid tank... You'll see the cloud of crud...

If you're going to ask for advice at least take the advice given.

Andy

[Jeff]

No offence towards you Adam, but I hear your argument all the time. If that were the case you would not have sick and dying discus. I have had tropical fish for over 15 years and discus on a large scale for 2 years and consider my self a beginner. In two months I guarantee you have not even scratched the surface. People are all offering the same advise if you want to refuse to listen its ok they are your discus, but later when the big one hits don't ask why again.

[chinoz]

yo adam...

i advice you to take some chill pill man, simply members are giving a tremendous amount of tips and tricks on your discus keeping journey. Dont think that you know everything there is about discus. I have been keeping discus for more than 6 months now, and i still have prolems of my own. U should be thankful that you got people that are nice enough to provide you with the directions that you need, just relax and listen huh?.

sorry...i was pretty pissed reading your post.

[brewmaster15]

Adam,
I know you have been doing research, and think you know everything you need to know about discus. I am sorry you have ill fish now, but what I am going to tell you is from my hard earned experience.

I did what you did, and thought what you think on this. after 10 years with discus I am still learning though. many here have done as you. Your mistake here isn't that you didn't do the research and ask the questions, Your mistake here was that you didn't listen to the advise, and follow the research. Bareglass tank, and only discus is the best way to start, and then add variables.

Everyone always thinks that success with other fish means they can do the same to discus...... Lose the Gravel, bare tank and only discus. Then add substrate if you feel the need.

In the mean while. You sound like your fish have a bad bacterial infection, probably columnaris or vibrio. Doesn't matter ... get them in a hospitol tank... salt 1tablespoon / gal... temp at min. 86. 50 % water changes daily... and get something like maracyn 2, or oxytetracycline . Treat all the discus including the"healthy" Looking ones.

hth,
al

[chinoz]

Adam,
I know you have been doing research, and think you know everything you need to know about discus. I am sorry you have ill fish now, but what I am going to tell you is from my hard earned experience.

I did what you did, and thought what you think on this. after 10 years with discus I am still learning though. many here have done as you. Your mistake here isn't that you didn't do the research and ask the questions, Your mistake here was that you didn't listen to the advise, and follow the research. Bareglass tank, and only discus is the best way to start, and then add variables.

Everyone always thinks that success with other fish means they can do the same to discus...... Lose the Gravel, bare tank and only discus. Then add substrate if you feel the need.

In the mean while. You sound like your fish have a bad bacterial infection, probably columnaris or vibrio. Doesn't matter ... get them in a hospitol tank... salt 1tablespoon / gal... temp at min. 86. 50 % water changes daily... and get something like maracyn 2, or oxytetracycline . Treat all the discus including the"healthy" Looking ones.

hth,
al



Adam,

There is another advice :thumbsup:

[Abercrombie6202]

I'm not saying that i Know everything because nobody does!! i mean i think i know enough information to get started.

As stated by breed_beyond
"I suggest you take care of the discus you have and do another couple of monthes reading reading and more reading about discus before you get anymore."
'
my last repsonse was to him. becuase i think i know enough to start out with discus. I would have tore down my 75 gallon and made it BB, but my mom hence the word "MOM" won't let me (which that means it's not my fault theres gravel in there as i would like to take it out), because the tank is in the living room.

AndyL i just did that. "You've got 2" or better. Its not as clean as you think. If you don't believe me, put your hand in the tank, scoop up some gravel, get right down to the glass, then dump it mid tank... You'll see the cloud of crud..." do you mean brown dirt and everything? becuase yeah i use to see that in my 20 gallon when it use to be planted, but i did that to my 75 gallon and there was no brown stuff. A couple of things floating around here and there, but that's all nothing like a huge cloud. I'm wondering when you started out with gravel did you vacuum it everyday, like i do?

[AndyL]

do you mean brown dirt and everything? becuase yeah i use to see that in my 20 gallon when it use to be planted, but i did that to my 75 gallon and there was no brown stuff. A couple of things floating around here and there, but that's all nothing like a huge cloud. I'm wondering when you started out with gravel did you vacuum it everyday, like i do?


Well since you obviously know best, keep thinking you know better and do whatever you feel you need to do. Since you obviously can vacuum gravel better than anyone else, keep the gravel. The difference between your tank and mine, is I just got my first wigglers today; your fish are dieing. Sometimes you need to really sit down and realize what you can and can't do. Maybe Discus are beyond your means right now. When you can have a bare bottom tank and have the resources to care for them properly you could try again. But maybe right now they're just not a good fit for you and your lifestyle.



I'm not saying that i Know everything because nobody does!! i mean i think i know enough information to get started.


This is the right attitude to have, too bad later on in the post you returned to your know-it-all 'Holier than thou" attitude.

Andy

[breed_beyond]

Ok i've reading this post and it seems that someone doesn't want to take advice. Ok thery are not my fish etc just trying to be helpful. Adam take a look at my early posts maybe the first 50-100 I was in bad shape I thought my water was all screwed up etc. I had some gravel plants etc, they ended up all getting sick eventually and I killed probally over 20 discus, at that time I decided to take a break from the discus although I was still on the boards everyday reading determined that when I purchased my next discus they would live.

I scraped all of the gravel, moved my setup to the garage bought several more tanks, set up water storage bought seperate hoses nets, and figured how I was gonna get my water in there, yet I still waited and continued to read. then early this summer I bought somemore after almost 6 monthes without discus guess what they did great nice and fat and round. To sum it up I owe my discus living to some great members here helping me in the beggining and taking their advice on gravel plants etc. i also want to thank Cary for giving me the confidance to raise up some nickel sized fry even tho I did kill most of them. I guess my point would be to not keep discus if you can't give them the best conditions you can ie bb, w/c's etc.

[Abercrombie6202]

AndyL i was just saying don't assume my tank was so dirty just because yours was. there not the same jsut because they both had gravel in them. How long have you had discus for?

Breed_Beyond that's pretty cool, i appreciate your advice.

i've been wanting a BB tank, but at the moment my mom won't let me switch my planted tank to a BB or let me buy anymore

[blaze]

I'll pray for u.

[brewmaster15]

Adam,

I'm going to be a real hard nose here and tell you how it is for your good and any discus you will "learn" with.
Theres 2 way to raise discus. The hard way and the easy way. The path you are going is the hard way.


You don't like hearing about the BB tank and Discus only tank, because its not what you want to hear. You have sick fish, people are trying to help you, and you have resented them, and argued with them. You have also shown them great disrespect . >:( If you knew as much as you think you did, you wouldn't be in this situation now. I hear this all the time from the people who think that they can raise Discus as all other Aquarium fish.

My question .. where are all these people now that you have sick fish? :-\

The good news is you are Young, and have lots of time to learn. The bad news is you are young and have lots to learn.

I'm sorry Adam, But I don't know what else to tell you. You knew what could happen in that tank. Its going to be hard for you to learn about discus, and deal with these kinds of issues. I hate to push people from the hobby, but maybe If your family situation is one that will not allow you to do what needs to be done here. Then discus may not be right for you at this time in your life.

Good luck,
-al

[arawak]

I'm new at keeping discus (7 months) and have never had a sick discus or have one die on me. Credit is due to Simplydiscus members as I've done what they suggested. They give solid advice. So for 'discus sake' take their advise.
I too was reluctant to go BB but am happy I did. It was filthy under there! even with daily vacuuming. So now all my tank are BB, even my goldfish tanks.

Proverbs 2 vs1 & 2, 3 vs 13 KJV

[Debbie]

Do you have any plants in the tank now? You might want to put some in, they will use any waste for fertilizer. I keep planted tanks and I don't vacuum the gravel (at least not vigorously I just do a light vacuuming). Maybe you are stirring things up too much. It is possible you hit an anerobic pocket of bacteria which can poison a tank, did you smell any sulfur? I avoid anerobic pockets by keeping Malaysian trumpet snails in my tanks.
The white patches are a concern. Could be bacterial, could be fungal. Were the white patches slimy or cottony.
Also what was the pH of the water from where they came?

[RobKenobi]

I bought my first Discus in 1997 and he/she was kept in a community tank with ALL KINDS of fish, gravel and plants. This fish was around three inches, and is now 6" (not including tail)

I never knew ANYTHING about keeping discus then (completley ignorant) but this fish has been healthy eves since (appart from tapeworm incident)

Anyway, gravel and plants may be hit or miss, and maybe I was lucky.
BB tanks are fine, I have a 45 now, with 5 Discus in it.

Just goes to show it doesnt matter what kind of tanks you have, but how good your water management is. If thats fine, you can keep discus in Planted or BB, it doesn't matter at all!

[jules]

Peace

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Adam,
I know it's hard to listen to people you really don't know. If your mother is the problem then you need to let her read this forum and see if she will understand. You probably vacuum the s#@T out of the gravel to make sure it's clean but until you remove the gravel you won't see what you've miss. Alot of the problems you can't see with the naked eye. Plants too as well as snails can bring diseases to your tank. The water looks clean but it's not optimum. Seat your mother in front of your computer and let her read this. I hope from reading she will change her mind.
Lastly, listen to this old time guys that's been thru it all when it comes to raising discus. They have better things to do than argue with you. You have to understand and be thankful that they are taking the time to help you.
Good luck,
dan