Japan Wild discus

[jn4u]

I don't remember where I have read that the best wild-caught discuses are ship to Japan. They will get the best price in this country? Is this still true or?

[gang_mary]

I don't think that best wilds are all sent to Japan,but I believe that most wild RSGs of the highest quality are sent to Japan.

[Paulio]

A good number of the better selection of Wilds are bought by Japanese and German buyers. Simple reason is they are willing to pay more than Americans are. :-\

If only I could be down there on the rivers.

[wildthing]

There is a reason we have been seeing lots of better quality wilds in the USA.
The German market & the Japanese discus markets have largely collapsed this past year as their economies are not doing so well & there is less disposable income....sure, some are still paying for the top quality fish but generaly there is much less interest from those markets recently, freeing up all those fish for 'alternate' markets like the USA.......the joke is that now US buyers have been ( conned into) paying prices that even the Japanese won;t pay.....(for instance $225-$250 for a brown/red discus ) .......we started to see a lot of good RSG's last year because the Taiwan market was also in recession, domestic imports from asia are cheaper than ever.........one well known german breeder is producing 4 times more discus babies than he can sell & is tryng desperately to get into the US market.....
Generally, under these conditions, quality should go up & price should go down, but as long as hobbyist folks are unaware of the market & keep paying too much then importer/suppliers will keep charging too much.


JMO


David

[brewmaster15]

Theres alot of really good information buried in the post Dave Webber just made. ....very good information. :)

-al

[gang_mary]

Well...sorry I must say I don't agree :-\there are still good RSG sent to Japan in this new season,and ,in Taiwan,I guess less than 20 piece of Top level wild RSG in the market in recent 2-3 years and I only see about 10 piece. Hobbists here always search good wild RSG,and price of the top ones is about 400-1000 USD.
Many years ago,there was once Wild Fever in Taiwan,the price was lower then.So now many people are acquisitive of buying good wilds in that good price!I just see very good but expensive or common and cheap ones ::)

I surly hope/wish the price of good RSG will low down.

JMO
Lee

[Paulio]

David,

I love you Man! ;D You come right out and tell it like it is, no fear. Excellent post. Most informative. I am always affraid to post like this for fear of the backlash from folks that...well...paid too darn much for a fish! I know, beauty is in the eye....one mans trash...... But bottom line is people are paying too much.

Paul

[wildthing]

3-4 years ago a good Brazilian RSG adult with good spots would retail at about $200....last year they retailed at $125 or less, wholesale prices became about half what they were, Then Peru started to supply very spotted RSG's for about $12 wholesale...tho they tend to be a little smaller than Brazilian fish. The Taiwan market wholesales of wilds fell by about 80%-90% from previous levels, not that Brazilians care as Discus are less than 1% of their trade anyway.
3 yrs ago a good Alenquer red retailed for about $200....then the Santarems started to show up retailing for $125......both good red fish from the same general region....then the price dropped again so I did;n't bother much last season, tho others did & were charging $250 or more for good royal blues & reds that couldn't be sold in Asia..........good fish but with a saturated market wayyy too expensive considering their actual F1 or F2 breeding value (minimal IMO) for any US hobbyist/breeder.
the so-called "ica red" used to be a throw-away fish due to its mixed genes, but recently it is fetching top dollar.....up to $200.......
Heckel adult prices , depending on their background colors ( blue or yellow etc) have fluctuated from $45 3 yrs ago , up to $150 for a real nice blueface, back down to $50.
Brazilian airlines have recently been in a state of chaos so not so many direct flights have been available, which has kept the costs up a bit but the actual price of fish has fallen everywhere but in the USA...........
Last season I was able to sell 3" heckels, blues, greens & browns for $15 ea...down $20 from previous seasons.........recently I have been giving wild adults away for less than half of their cost ( sorry..all gone now)

The market is low.....money is tight for everyone........."Japan" is now more a myth used to inflate prices

jmo






8)

[henryD]

Great Info david.

[Paulio]

David,


You have more insight than I do as I am still learning. But arent we always? I agree although I think the effect on pricing we see is still due to market set by Asian and European buyers. Even though they arent buying to the same degree this minute the aftermath is still seen in our market as if they are. In reality AFAIK they all but stopped buying a bit ago and a good portion of the "wild" fish especialy from Asia are F1-F2 etc. I have no problem with F1 or so "Wild Type" as long as they are advertised as such.
Now since the local markets are in trouble we have Asian sellers popping up on boards like this one with pictures of pretty fish that they just happen to be selling. Guess what...... now they are trying to get even MORE money out the American (and Canadian ;D) pocket to offset the loss they are seeing in their home markets.


Mucho Respect,
Paul

[gang_mary]

David,
What I said is the situation I know in Taiwan,I am very glad to know that the price of wilds is down...I surly like cheaper and good fish,and I think that Billy(ppn) also happy to hear this infomation :)
the wilds ship to Taiwan these years are totally ugly ones IMO. However some good Peruvian RSG was sent to Taipei last Friday, their retail price is about 500 USD:(....hehe Thanks for offering this important infomation.

Lee

[gang_mary]

Paulio,
I don't know why you usually think the Taiwan market is good ???actually it is very bad for years, and many hobbists cannot find the good fish ,only color fed ugly ones from SE Asia.Many people like me looking for something worthy to buy,to breed,and we need good wilds as well.
I always dreamed of some good fish will ship to Taiwan,not to Japan, even very expensive,we have no choice you know?
Well...if any one can offer high quality, good price, any strain of wilds,ship to Taiwan ,contact me!sent me your pricelist and photos of your best fish,please.

Regards,
Lee

[ping]

Wow Lee,

I wish i can say this ;D ;D ;D

Well...if any one can offer high quality, good price, any strain of wilds,ship to Taiwan ,contact me!sent me your pricelist and photos of your best fish,please

Nice info David and Paul. :)

Regards,
Ronny

[jn4u]

It’s interesting that you are telling David. Not all countries in Europe get the best fish. We are different regions. In Sweden you can dream to sell a discus at a price of 200 euro. I have to travel down to Germany to get the best fishes and that a trip 700 km and boat in 6 hours.

I have to get small wilds. And some of them can also turn out very nice. But really is only RSG pattern the mark in quality. It’s if they are healthy and in good shape. They call the pigeon discus a better discus compare with a normal brown wild. All wants what is hot and that pay a high price. Is price quality? Latest crosses has get out of control in the discus world. :P

It’s more fun to travel to killis champions chip than Duisburg ;) ;) ;)

I was talking with some scientist about this collecting discus and they thing it’s was funny when a discus importer talk about round shape is the natural thing etc.

That the market has collapsed in all countries in euro is not true. ;D ;D

[gang_mary]

Johan,
How you hate pigeon so ;D ;D ;D
pigeon in Taiwan are poor...people view them cheap fish,but I personaly like its special yellow~orange red color :)

I think that's because Good RSG is rare,and
looks much cooler than non-spotted Greens JMO.

BTW, I like your web very much. :thumbsup:

Regards,

Lee

[gang_mary]

Hey buddy :)
Anyone know how to get or has the top wild RSG like this wild male
http://homepage2.nifty.com/fukuyama/The%20history%20of%20WR19.htm
and proper priced,please drop me a e-mail ;)

my e-mail adress is www.mail2000.com.tw
thanks in advance! 8)

Lee

[jn4u]

It's not that I think that a pigeon discus look nice. There are lot of fish that look very nice. I have also breed this fish and the solid types. You have to if you want to sell fish.

Well someone develop a strain that have a light colour body. And the fry don't find the body. You have to use foster parents. Or develop a solid discus. When this fish get sick have way to show the stress bars or get dark. The beginner doesn't se this and fish dies.

Maybe that's an improvement when it's come to colour. But all this inbreeding/crossing/etc we get fish have hard to swim, reproduce. Etc.

Understand that I not that idealist. I like discus and think it's fun. And I'm not 100% in my opinion. It's hard to write, you get so much miss understanding compared with talking. ;) ;) ;)

In Sweden we have a lot of importers of fish. They talk about theirs quality and expensive discus. They have never breed a discus and don't understand how hard it's is to breed a good discus. Then this 15 years old boy comes to the store and want to sell some discus. And the first thing this importer its bad discus not hottest line will not sell. How will that help the next generation of discus breeders or the hobby?

Or if I have a F1 discus that I have work hard to produce. I know that this fish don't ever compare with well know breeder. Then this hobbyist come home to me an it's a **** fish. Take a look at my discus. They lock very nice but the only comes down to he have $$$$$ to get this fish. He knows nothing about breeding or takes care of discus.

That's why I some time sound "evil". This it's not the case and I hope you don't get offended. I'm so tired of all this quality or quality that. It's all comes down to make $$$$ in companies.

Today I have only discus 1 fish from a well know breeder kitti. And the rest are wild or produced in my hometown. They don't all look the best. But I know the history of every fish back the last 3 - 5 generation.

Well one friend work over 2.5 years to get his first discus to breed. The first off spring looked like hell. But I took one of he's first females and made a cross with one of my. The look on his face when I gave back some discus with the female he had produced. 8) ;D

I hop U understand my point...

Johan Nilsson

[gang_mary]

Johan,
I see... :) My English is so so but I understand what you mean 8)
Your fish are great although it might sold a low price as you said.I heard that somebody talking about the light body color make it difficult for fry attching to their parent,and IME,it seemed not that bad....anyway,you are kind to considerate those new to discus :)

Undoubtedly,the price is not equal to the quality of fish ,and I agree some fish from wellknown breeder is totally a **** ;D ;D ;D

Lee

[gang_mary]

Hey~ Wanna to know how many beautiful RSG ship to Japan this season?
Most of them are sold out
http://www.annie.ne.jp/~amazon/xtefell-1.html
http://www.annie.ne.jp/~amazon/xtefe-llcon.html
http://www.petballoon.co.jp/news/index.html
(2003/9 vol.1 jurua & 2003/10 Jurua and Tefe)
I think there will be more fish in Nov. till Feb.

The Japan market is collapsed is very good news to Taiwanese and you N American people,that means we will have such stunning fish in our market soon.;D ;D ;D
However,I wonder how many such quility fish caught in Amazon every year,If it's not many enough,I guess most of them will still ship to Japan.